If the Dark Angels are getting 6 RoWs, how about the others?

[Mazryonh]

According to the HH novels, the Dark Angels had 6 "wings" or specializations into which they trained and deployed their troops, each of which focussed on a specific area of warfare during the Great Crusade. They were the Ravenwing, the Ironwing, the Deathwing, the Dreadwing, the Stormwing, and the Firewing.

 

So far FW has released rules for the Ravenwing and the Ironwing as Rites of War. I know that the Deathwing is almost certainly getting a 30k RoW because the Deathwing is still in use as of 40k.  I don't know if the remaining three "wings" will get Rites of War, but it's certainly probable, given how the novel Angels of Caliban teased at a huge amount of DA-exclusive goodies that 30k players would love to have on the tabletop.

 

My main question is, if and when the First Legion gets rules for all of its 6 Wings, what about the 17 other legions?  I know that every legion has its fanboys, and if they don't end up getting as many unique RoWs as the DAs do, players of other legions will likely start feeling left out.  What's the general consensus here about this?

[Soldier of Dorn]

I suspect that eventually FW will have 4-5 RoWs for every Legion, yes. I also suspect that the Angeli Tenebrae might have slightly more Rites (1 or 2) than other Legions, but that seems to be a bit of schtick for them, and I don't see it as ever becoming a problem. I don't feel that having more Rites would make them overpowered them compared to any other Legion (after all, any army can only use one at a time) or that it would mark them out as FW's favorites or anything like that (all the Legions are treated pretty damn well by FW, though obviously some of them might be better than others.)

 

But that's just my opinion.

[Grand Master Belial]

If they follow the GW formula, the DA will be the test bed and the others will get the revised and usually better sets later on leaving the DA to feel cheated.

 

Since the other three are lesser known, it is easy to leave them be for later when an idea can be formulated and presented in a way to inspire interest.

 

Dread, Storm and Fire sound cool but what is their composition? Is the Dreadwing a collection of Dreadnoughts? Is the Stormwing made up of Angels that deploy via Stormbirds or are they the original hammer brothers (but in power armor) before Lysander revives it with his Terminators? Is the Firewing a massive collection of heavy weapons (where two Dev squads switch to a 10-man Bolter squad and a 10-man heavy squad) and artillery?

[Cloud Runner]

The latest DA HH novel, Angels of Caliban, gives some insight into the different wings. There was a thread about it in the DA sub-forums, lemme find a http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322899-dark-angels-30k-organisation-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/'>link

 

Gives some good pointers and ideas.

 

 

I'm about a third of the way through and I've seen one of the wings go into action, and it could be interesting on the table-top. I'm pretty sure that FW will get the balance OK on the rites, and hopefully a little clearer than Ironwing appears.

 

 

 

What I'm really looking forward to is having little nod's to the different -wing allegiances scattered throughout the squads

[Sandlemad]

That ability of the 1st legion to handle a wide variety of warfare does seem to be their 'thing', so yes, I think it's plausible that they will have a greater number of RoWs and relatively plain legion-wide rules where other legions have special rules for armour or morale.

 

Currently each legion has a RoW for the the form of war they are best known for (so armoured warfare for IH, jetbike force for WS) and then another force- or situation-specific rule. Thinking here of the WS sagyar mazan, the SoH RoW representing the middle years of the heresy, and the Raven Guard one representing Corax's raiding forces. Some of these are also focused around specific units: the post-Isstvaan IH one with the immortals, the EC kakophoni one for Kaesoron's 3rd company.

 

I'd expect any new RoWs for the other legions to be like that as the plot goes forward, getting one or two here and there as the books' coverage permits. A force of Ultramarine red-helm loose cannons. The WB Vakrah Jal from Betrayer (if not a new unit). An IF wall company on Terra. Khârn's WE berzerkers/breachers on Terra. Whatever. Other stuff from the events we only know the names of.

[Charlo]

The thing is, Ironwing and Ravenwing feel like very strong and direct themes that represent one form of attack (Speed/ Tracking/ Hit 'n' Run AND Overwhelming AV Assault etc).

 

But the other wings? From what we can tell they are very varied in their composition and can probably be represented with just a single unit or some changes to army composition through a characters special rules.

 

Deathwing: Essentially just veterans and TDA. Will probably be just the special terminator unit, or a rule granted by the Lion.

Dreadwing: Emphasis on the utter destruction of the foe. Considering how cool he is Redloss could be a special character to unlock this OR I suppose this could be a Rite of War.

Firewing: We probably don't know enough here.

Stormwing: Again, knowledge is limited but we know at minimum it's Zone Mortalis and boarding specialists. Depending on more info could again just be a unit.

 

I ALSO think that DA will be the first Legion (heh) allowed to take an allied detachment of thier own legion, to represent a taskforce of a different wing fighting with another. But that's just me.

[apologist]

There's an argument that some of the First Legion's wings overlap with existing Rites of War. The Terminator-heavy Deathwing, for example, can be made using Pride of the Legion, while the all-vehicle Ironwing can be made with Armoured Breakthrough. 

 

Basically, I suspect FW will focus their attention on the specialist formations that can't be made with existing Rites of War, or those that overlap least.

[Charlo]

Yeah probably.

 

Dreadwing is by far the one I'm waiting for and depending on how well it's represented could see me doing a DA army the day the rules become available.

 

Just the initial fight with them from Angel's of Caliban we see:

• Spartans
• Destroyer/ Assault Marines
• Predators
• RADIATION Whirlwinds
• Warp Rift Orbital Bombardment
• Void Shell Vindicators
• Void Shell Glaives
• Phosphex Launchers

Pretty much everything designed to eradicate the enemy. The Void bombardment could be a cool rule if Redloss got rules too - a huge blast with insane power that after it's done is difficult terrain to all but the DA but provides cover inside, like how they use it in their advance.

[Corswain]

Maybe, but do we really need that many per Legion? I certainly don't think Dark Angels will need six.

As Apologist said, most are probably going to be similar to existing Rites that any Legion can use.

 

I'd rather see just two or three. Something along the lines of a Terran Veterans and a Knights of Caliban set of Rites, instead of the Wings.

Unless..... there are interesting ways of mixing Rites, or changing them mid-battle (like Angels of Caliban). That'd be kinda cool - "Psych! I'm changing to Dreadwing and now all my Destroyers are scoring!"

[Charlo]

I feel as if the Knights are already represented in the Base rules and then will get a unit or something (probably RW Black Knights...)

[Terminus]

They get more rites of war because their legion perk sucks.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Yeah probably.

 

Dreadwing is by far the one I'm waiting for and depending on how well it's represented could see me doing a DA army the day the rules become available.

 

Just the initial fight with them from Angel's of Caliban we see:

• Spartans
• Destroyer/ Assault Marines
• Predators
• RADIATION Whirlwinds
• Warp Rift Orbital Bombardment
• Void Shell Vindicators
• Void Shell Glaives
• Phosphex Launchers

Pretty much everything designed to eradicate the enemy. The Void bombardment could be a cool rule if Redloss got rules too - a huge blast with insane power that after it's done is difficult terrain to all but the DA but provides cover inside, like how they use it in their advance.

So basically everything that should be in the arsenals of the Destroyer Cadres anyway? For all the cool fluff around the destroyers (especially the little bit about the Nemesis Chapter at Calth), FW really haven't done much with the concept. Elite/alienated specialist cadres, entrusted with the most terrible, borderline forbidden, weapons the Imperium can produce, intended to burn the unsalvagable. But how does that translate to the table top? Gunslinger Assault Marines with toughness debuff grenades. They just don't measure up.

[IronDrake28]

 

 

Yeah probably.

 

Dreadwing is by far the one I'm waiting for and depending on how well it's represented could see me doing a DA army the day the rules become available.

 

Just the initial fight with them from Angel's of Caliban we see:

• Spartans
• Destroyer/ Assault Marines
• Predators
• RADIATION Whirlwinds
• Warp Rift Orbital Bombardment
• Void Shell Vindicators
• Void Shell Glaives
• Phosphex Launchers

Pretty much everything designed to eradicate the enemy. The Void bombardment could be a cool rule if Redloss got rules too - a huge blast with insane power that after it's done is difficult terrain to all but the DA but provides cover inside, like how they use it in their advance.

So basically everything that should be in the arsenals of the Destroyer Cadres anyway? For all the cool fluff around the destroyers (especially the little bit about the Nemesis Chapter at Calth), FW really haven't done much with the concept. Elite/alienated specialist cadres, entrusted with the most terrible, borderline forbidden, weapons the Imperium can produce, intended to burn the unsalvagable. But how does that translate to the table top? Gunslinger Assault Marines with toughness debuff grenades. They just don't measure up.

There's plenty of Phosphex weaponry scattered about too don't forget. There was rumours of the Furibundus Dreadnought being a destroyer variant iirc.

[Corswain]

I feel as if the Knights are already represented in the Base rules and then will get a unit or something (probably RW Black Knights...)

That's exactly what I don't want to see - more Ravenwing.

[Lord_Ikka]

Revenwing/Deathwing knights would be interesting, but rather boring- they are already in 40k DA rules and wouldn't add a new dimension to the Heresy DA. I really think the only units DA should get would have to be something that A) is new and B)utilizes their Perk. So something similar to the EC Palantine Blades, a unit of sword-using artificer armored knights.

 

As far as the Wings go, I'm most interested in Dreadwing (Destroyers that work), Stormwing (want to see DA Breachers) and Firewing. Granted we don't know a lot about Firewing, but given that there aren't a whole lot of regular Tactical or Devastators in the other Wings I think that's where they'll wind up.

[Forward Assist]

I've eased off my First Legion for the time being because the next bits I wanted to procure were destroyer squads and spartans. The rumours of grav-raiders and Dreadwing are tantalising!

 

My only sceptiscm is that if the First Legion get rules and models for half of what's rumoured, it'd mean FW is investing more into the DAs than most other Legions.

[rendingon1+]

Without reasonable LA rules dark angels will suffer. RoWs may be a way to go but only if paired with LA that are actually usefull. For now i more often "use" covenant of death then MotB. That's the biggest handicap amongst the legions at the moment.

[shandwen]

The DA wings have interesting rules: not always better, and more often worse yhan the generic. They were the prototype legion and their rules show that. I do fully expect at least six row's (and probably more).

[rendingon1+]

Actually except for limitations, RW protocols are hands down better than skyhunter phalanx. If not the price (points and money) it would be one of the best RoWs. And I'm not sure how legion rules show that they were the first. Mastery of the blade just screams Caliban!and covenant of death is just a misunderstanding.

[Lord_Ikka]

Mastery of the Blade is definitely Calibanite influence, while the Terran/First Legion-as-prototype is picked out in their RoW.

[TheCelticRaven]

well to get back on topic, i would quite like some sort of "destroyer/grave warden" ROW which makes either of them troops and maybe boosts their toughness so that they are harder to take down...

 

for blood angles however i would like something representing them on signis prime, in the grips of the red thirst...

[depthcharge12]

We have less/crappy legion rules so FW will throw us a bone to play a certain style and gain lots of buffs through the wings.

 

Plus we are just cooler. Other legions are just so bleh. We can even choose to be loyalist or traitor :P

[DuskRaider]

If anyone deserves Rad Whirlwinds, it's the XIVth... I love that idea.

[Corswain]

If anyone deserves Rad Whirlwinds, it's the XIVth... I love that idea.

That sounds.......tempting.

[rendingon1+]

Hm. Let's see how they handled SW and 1ksons first. These are 2 legions that definitely stand out as non standard in terms of army composition and abilities. If all of these crazy WingRoWs are going to happen, Dark Angels will be the Legion with the most rules (and equipment).