If the Dark Angels are getting 6 RoWs, how about the others?

[Charlo]

Because of Covenant of Death I can really see the DA getting units that are just plain crazy. With some luck the stars will align and we'l get Deathwing Terminators with the option for all Plasma Repeaters ;)

[Lord Blackwood]

As of right now Dark Angels have two Rites of War 

Ironwing and Ravenwing 

There is some clamoring for Dreadwing and it has been hinted at by FW 

I  feel like folks are getting a little ahead of themselves  after forgeworld said that there would be ways to represent all  the wings. 

Pride of the Legion exists and allows you  to represent the Deathwing ( if we are pulling from the same sort of mentality as 40k ) 

Just Chill. 

Please  Really just calm yerself and look at what the legion has not what they MIGHT get and make hypothetical complaints about imbalance BEFORE we have something to complain about. 

 

[rendingon1+]

What is this thread if not wishlisting?

No harm in that, I think. Especially when everyone is calm.

BTW about representing Deathwing with PotL - that's why Mastery of the Blade just can't be the only LA rule.

[Corswain]

I think the OPs point was, "is every Legion going to get six unique Rites of War?".

 

Personally, I think that they will, eventually. I don't believe they (or the Dark Angels) need them though. There isn't too much you can't do withh the generic Rites. And if you want to run a list you can't build then what's to stop you (with your opponents permission) playing unbound.

[Lord Blackwood]

Unbound is not really a thing in  AoD.  


Nor should it be in my opinion. 

[Corswain]

I tend to agree but if people wanna mess around and run crazy lists just for fun - I'm not going to argue.

[Mazryonh]

I didn't create this thread just to make wishlists; I just felt that if the First Legion got 6 unique Rites of War, to follow the trend of 1 unique RoW per "Wing," then the other legions' players might feel left out. 

 

Actually, I feel that the First Legion might get a seventh unique RoW to represent Luther's breakaway faction.  Luther can't be everywhere at once and he convinced many Dark Angels to join his secession, so there should be a unique RoW to show how Luther's reforms took root among the Fallen.

 

A possible spanner in the works might be how the First Legion's "Wing" RoWs might be elbowing into the other legion's specialties.  Isn't the Ravenwing protocol already  neck-and-neck with the White Scars' own bike-centric RoW?  The DA's own Ironwing protocol already makes for better shooting tanks and infantry than the Iron Warriors' and Iron Hands' own tank-centric RoWs too.  What if the DA's Dreadwing RoW ends up doing chemical warfare better than the Death Guard, who are supposed to specialize in that?  Then FW will likely get accused of favouritism with the DAs like GW was with the Ultramarines.

 

I don't believe the generic RoWs are as versatile as some posters in this thread have claimed.  Some of them just don't fit some legions very well.  Furthermore, since most LA rules don't apply to vehicles or walkers, taking the generic RoWs focusing on those unit types is going to result in similar forces across the board regardless of which legion you chose.  In other words, the generic RoWs basically lack character.  So to me, legion-exclusive RoWs are where the unique strengths of a legion truly shine.

 

I know that the Death Guard, the World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children should get at least one more RoW to represent their fully-fallen-to-Chaos forms (getting Plague Marines/Khorne Berserkers/Noise Marines as troops to start, along with access to the appropriate Chaos God's daemon units) when it's time for the Siege of Terra.  The Thousand Sons at that point are still sitting the Heresy out unless there's going to be a change in previously-known canon.

[Dantay VI]

Which maybe correct as they are the first legion.

[Lord Blackwood]

I didn't create this thread just to make wishlists; I just felt that if the First Legion got 6 unique Rites of War, to follow the trend of 1 unique RoW per "Wing," then the other legions' players might feel left out. 

 

Actually, I feel that the First Legion might get a seventh unique RoW to represent Luther's breakaway faction.  Luther can't be everywhere at once and he convinced many Dark Angels to join his secession, so there should be a unique RoW to show how Luther's reforms took root among the Fallen.

 

A possible spanner in the works might be how the First Legion's "Wing" RoWs might be elbowing into the other legion's specialties.  Isn't the Ravenwing protocol already  neck-and-neck with the White Scars' own bike-centric RoW?  The DA's own Ironwing protocol already makes for better shooting tanks and infantry than the Iron Warriors' and Iron Hands' own tank-centric RoWs too.  What if the DA's Dreadwing RoW ends up doing chemical warfare better than the Death Guard, who are supposed to specialize in that?  Then FW will likely get accused of favouritism with the DAs like GW was with the Ultramarines.

 

I don't believe the generic RoWs are as versatile as some posters in this thread have claimed.  Some of them just don't fit some legions very well.  Furthermore, since most LA rules don't apply to vehicles or walkers, taking the generic RoWs focusing on those unit types is going to result in similar forces across the board regardless of which legion you chose.  In other words, the generic RoWs basically lack character.  So to me, legion-exclusive RoWs are where the unique strengths of a legion truly shine.

 

I know that the Death Guard, the World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children should get at least one more RoW to represent their fully-fallen-to-Chaos forms (getting Plague Marines/Khorne Berserkers/Noise Marines as troops to start, along with access to the appropriate Chaos God's daemon units) when it's time for the Siege of Terra.  The Thousand Sons at that point are still sitting the Heresy out unless there's going to be a change in previously-known canon.

 

This entire post is fear mongering and a general lack of understanding of the way Age of Darkness Works and Plays in a practical sense. 

[Cloud Runner]

Which maybe correct as they are the first legion.

 

And they were the template that the other legions were based upon, which were then broken down into their own specialised forms (lightning strike White Scars, chemical warfare Death Guard etc)

 

There's two ways it could go.

 

1. They could have all these unique RoW's similar to the others and maybe better. They were the first to sue those forms and have had much more practice at it. Or they could be less powerful than the others as they spread their wings (!) and have a sort of hybridised structure.

 

2. They could go a completely different way and have unit upgrades, though I fear that would be a bit cumbersome.

 

 

 

Personally I'm looking forward to the developments and seeing what comes.

 

 

There's also the issue that while Ironwing and Ravenwing are similar to the other legions, they have quite heavy restrictions (equal number of tanks UNITS to others is very limiting) AND they have an instant drawback in the legion astartes rule which can cost a game (curse you D3 rolls!!)

 

Whatever we get, it'll be an interesting time and there'll be plenty of options available - and surely more options is better, right?

[Corswain]

I didn't create this thread just to make wishlists; I just felt that if the First Legion got 6 unique Rites of War, to follow the trend of 1 unique RoW per "Wing," then the other legions' players might feel left out. 

 

Actually, I feel that the First Legion might get a seventh unique RoW to represent Luther's breakaway faction.  Luther can't be everywhere at once and he convinced many Dark Angels to join his secession, so there should be a unique RoW to show how Luther's reforms took root among the Fallen.

 

A possible spanner in the works might be how the First Legion's "Wing" RoWs might be elbowing into the other legion's specialties.  Isn't the Ravenwing protocol already  neck-and-neck with the White Scars' own bike-centric RoW?  The DA's own Ironwing protocol already makes for better shooting tanks and infantry than the Iron Warriors' and Iron Hands' own tank-centric RoWs too.  What if the DA's Dreadwing RoW ends up doing chemical warfare better than the Death Guard, who are supposed to specialize in that?  Then FW will likely get accused of favouritism with the DAs like GW was with the Ultramarines.

 

I don't believe the generic RoWs are as versatile as some posters in this thread have claimed.  Some of them just don't fit some legions very well.  Furthermore, since most LA rules don't apply to vehicles or walkers, taking the generic RoWs focusing on those unit types is going to result in similar forces across the board regardless of which legion you chose.  In other words, the generic RoWs basically lack character.  So to me, legion-exclusive RoWs are where the unique strengths of a legion truly shine.

 

I know that the Death Guard, the World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children should get at least one more RoW to represent their fully-fallen-to-Chaos forms (getting Plague Marines/Khorne Berserkers/Noise Marines as troops to start, along with access to the appropriate Chaos God's daemon units) when it's time for the Siege of Terra.  The Thousand Sons at that point are still sitting the Heresy out unless there's going to be a change in previously-known canon.

Ok, I see what you mean and yeah, I can see that other Legion players might feel left out.

 

I am hoping that FW will be pretty good about updating the Rites of War to combat the older Rites losing their competitiveness. That may not happen untill all Legions have been released though.

 

To answer your question in short - No, I don't think each Legion will get six. I think the Legions only need three or four max to represent their individuality. I'm including the Dark Angels in that.

For everything else, I'd like to see more generic Rites for everyone to use.

[Charlo]

Even if they had 23 RoW, you can only field 1.

 

Quality (in both fluff and rules) over quantity IMO.

[Warhead01]

I though there was a rumor that the First Legion would indeed get all 6 wings. 
I'm not bothered at all by other Legions feeling elbowed in on. Other legions would have taken a fighting doctrine and ran with it. Several did.

I do hope that all 6 wings are represented through RoW's.

[Dantay VI]

I do not know, if the 1st were jack of all trades through being the prime legion, it would stand to reason that they would either get access to other legion RoW's or use the generic ones which are used by all legions, such as armoured breakthrough for Iron Wing, but with added acid HB's on preds etc to give it a bit more teeth.

[Spinsanity]

As pointed out already, why assume the First will get one RoW per wing?

 

My understanding, for now, was that since they (FW) wouldn't flesh out the DA in full yet they went the easy way in and created rites for the two most obvious wings (although truth be told, the IronWing didn't need a rite).

 

Maybe they will get 6, but as of now, there's no reason to believe so.

 

Besides, what else do we know of the remaining wings?

- Dreadwing might get an emphasis on phosphex and the likes?

- Wouldn't PotL be a pretty good fit for the Deathwing?

- Firewing I know nothing about

- Stormwing doesn't really need anything beyond Angel's Wrath, as far as I can tell..

 

So while I could see a new RoW for the Dreadwing (with maybe Destroyers as core) I see no reason yet to expect anything more... Once again, what would the Deathwing need that PotL doesn't already give?

[Spaced Hulk]

Background wise, the First were the template for all the Space Marine Legions. Perhaps that will be represented in the rules by the DA getting their six unique 'Wing' Rites of War (which seem to be one of their defining features as a Legion), BUT also lacking access to any of the generic Rites which the other Legions can take.

 

So, for example, perhaps the Dark Angels won't be able to use Pride of the Legion, but will get Deathwing Protocols instead. If the existing Raven & Ironwing protocols are anything to go by, this would be fundamentally similar to Pride (ie: making Veterans & Terminators Troops choices) but would probably gain other bonuses and much more severe limitations as well (for example, only allowing Vets & Termies as Troops). In that case, you could look at Pride of the Legion as an evolution, or standardisation of the First Legion's original concept for a highly elite strike force.

 

If FW did take this approach, it might be quite a neat way of representing the uniqueness of the Dark Angel Legion's organisation, and the fact that the other Legions took the tactics/ideas of the First Legion and then either standardised them or, in some cases, developed them further.

[Dantay VI]

6 rites.. 1 rite?

 

Not fussed as long as my legion gets a nice balanced RoW where they can wreck face I will be happy.

 

If DA were the template for the other legions and all RoW's originated from them, then they would be better with no legion specific RoW's and just use generics instead, but with legion specific rules to add spice.

 

Badaboom, all sorted.

 

PS when I see Dreadwing, am I the only person who imagines a walker heavy army list?

[Elzender]

I feel as if the Knights are already represented in the Base rules and then will get a unit or something (probably RW Black Knights...)

 

 

Mastery of the Blade is definitely Calibanite influence, while the Terran/First Legion-as-prototype is picked out in their RoW.

 

As an idea, maybe there will be a melee-oriented biker squad, to represent the Caliban knights, just with bikes instead of horses, and to make use of both the special swords and Mastery of the Blade.

[rendingon1+]

I sincerely hope not and I'm sure FW will come up with better idea than a 30k version of 40k special units.

[Corswain]

I sincerely hope not and I'm sure FW will come up with better idea than a 30k version of 40k special units.

Agreed.

 

Although, I do want sword wielding robed cataphractii terminators. Maybe with shields, maybe with volkite, maybe with huge double handed broadswords. Maybe all of the above.

[Lord_Ikka]

 

I sincerely hope not and I'm sure FW will come up with better idea than a 30k version of 40k special units.

Agreed.

Although, I do want sword wielding robed cataphractii terminators. Maybe with shields, maybe with volkite, maybe with huge double handed broadswords. Maybe all of the above.

That or a set of artificer armored, Terranic-greatsword wielding knights with an-uber shooty Terminaor squad (better weapon than plasma repeater?).

[rendingon1+]

This. Only more 2017(2018?).

[Terminus]

I think a "Swords Brethren" unit with artificer armor and calibanite blades (maybe terranic greatswords as upgrade?) is likely and would take advantage of the otherwise underwhelming Legion rules.

 

A plasma repeater terminator squad would be pretty scary, too!

[Spaced Hulk]

Whilst I really hope that FW does give us a that sort of elite, sword bearing unit (both rules and official models), in the interim you can still create something similar using the Veteran Tac Squad options, eg:

Calibanate 'Bladesworn' Veteran Squad, Ordination of the Deathwing, Circa M31.

Edit: Please excuse the current lack of paint!

[Soldier of Dorn]

Spaced Hulk: Those cloaks look fantastic! I'm assuming you sculpted them yourself?