Laser vindicators vs quad launchers+shatter

[noigrim]

Which do you think it's best at the antitank role?

 

The vindicators hit more often but the costs stack quickly plus there's plenty of antitank

The quads while cheaper and less of a target might fall easily to CQC specialists

[Theredknight]

Las vindis for cracking higher end armour.

Quad launchers are good at getting things up to 13, plus you can diversify them. Bombarding 12 3" str 5 templates is not to be sniffed at.

[Ishagu]

Laser Vindi is imo, one of the strongest units available in 30k, especially since it can be taken in Squadrons with machine spirit.

[01RTB01]

Laser Vindi is imo, one of the strongest units available in 30k, especially since it can be taken in Squadrons with machine spirit.

Essentially giving the unit split fire in all but name. Still can't move and super dakka but still excellent.

[Ishagu]

It also prevents the unit from not firing if stunned or shaken.

 

For anti Tank there isn't anything as effective or point efficient.

[noigrim]

seems like the vindi wins it!

[Terminus]

Machine spirit is too expensive to give to each tank, I'd give one to number 2 and 3 and keep the cheap one up front.

 

You're already scratching the 300 mark after two tanks and one spirit.

[Ishagu]

To be fair two tanks is all you really need.

Unless all the other HS slots are full you don't actually have to run them as a squadron.

[Flint13]

They're both pretty immobile though, which causes issues when you're dealing with flare shields. "High end armor" is better dealt with via graviton, Sicarian Venators or melta bombs, in that order.

 

You aren't killing a Spartan, Triaros or Malcador with either option unless your opponent derps hard with facing.

[Theredknight]

They're both pretty immobile though, which causes issues when you're dealing with flare shields. "High end armor" is better dealt with via graviton, Sicarian Venators or melta bombs, in that order.

 

You aren't killing a Spartan, Triaros or Malcador with either option unless your opponent derps hard with facing.

You see for the same price you can get 2 cortus with 2 grav guns each. Then you have to get them into range and survive.

 

The 2/3 pred option is a good choice for that.

Once your in position behind cover or troops you have a better chance of survival and 6 laser destroyer shots is likely to cause some serious damage. Being ap1 and all. And it's a further range than the 12" grav gun.

[Terminus]

Two Cortus with chainfist and double grav are 350 points. Vindicators are 285.

 

Laser destroyers will bounce off those targets, graviton guns (18" btw) will kill it.

 

Completely different units and FOC slot and role, not even sure why you bring up this comparison.

[Flint13]

 

They're both pretty immobile though, which causes issues when you're dealing with flare shields. "High end armor" is better dealt with via graviton, Sicarian Venators or melta bombs, in that order.

You aren't killing a Spartan, Triaros or Malcador with either option unless your opponent derps hard with facing.

You see for the same price you can get 2 cortus with 2 grav guns each. Then you have to get them into range and survive.

The 2/3 pred option is a good choice for that.

Once your in position behind cover or troops you have a better chance of survival and 6 laser destroyer shots is likely to cause some serious damage. Being ap1 and all. And it's a further range than the 12" grav gun.

I was thinking grav rapiers for a better comparison. Dreads seem like a pretty far range outside the conversational parameters.

 

They're 36" in range, same as the laser destroyer Vindicators. They also ignore flare shields, which laser destroyers are 90% neutered by. AP 1 doesn't do you any good if you can only manage glancing hits. Graviton creates a difficult terrain test per template that the vehicle has to traverse if it wants to move.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that AV13 in cover is more resilient than 2/3 T7 wounds in cover, except in the narrow niche of grav bombards.

[Terminus]

^And phosphex and whirlwinds and medusas. Any template capable of wounding T7 reliably is a good answer to rapiers (although small blasts can be mitigated somewhat by strict deployment).

[Captain Idaho]

Laser Destroyers provide death to things other than Spartans of course, but on that subject consider the following:

 

A Spartan has to face the Laser Destroyer Array to not be afraid of it. That means it is forced to position itself that way every turn it's at risk of being hit.

 

Consider the deployment/positioning advantages this gives you and also consider that your other weapons that are weaker can now bracket the non-flare side of the model. Say a Missile Launcher squad with Tank hunter that can now strip off a few Hull Points.

[Terminus]

LOL, don't even know what to say to the above. Yes, the Spartan will be deployed centrally and pointed at your lines, probably across from your Vindicators because their range does not allow for far flank deployments.  Irrelevant.

 

Missile launchers? I don't even know where to start about missile launchers.  If that's what you're relying on to stop a deathstar-carrying Spartan, you have already failed.  Stripping a few hull points is not good enough, nor (to counter your next point) is dedicating 3-4 units to "bracket the enemy".

[Flint13]

^And phosphex and whirlwinds and medusas. Any template capable of wounding T7 reliably is a good answer to rapiers (although small blasts can be mitigated somewhat by strict deployment).

Ah, this is true, but grav bombards ignore cover, auto wound the gun and do mean things to PA Astartes.

 

Phosphex is great, but it still has to roll to wound, and for some reason radioactive, sentient napalm doesn't ignore cover :lol:

[Captain Idaho]

LOL, don't even know what to say to the above. Yes, the Spartan will be deployed centrally and pointed at your lines, probably across from your Vindicators because their range does not allow for far flank deployments.  Irrelevant.

 

Missile launchers? I don't even know where to start about missile launchers.  If that's what you're relying on to stop a deathstar-carrying Spartan, you have already failed.  Stripping a few hull points is not good enough, nor (to counter your next point) is dedicating 3-4 units to "bracket the enemy".

If you play 40K/30K by setting up in a clump directly opposite from the opponent's army then yes my points aren't any good.

 

If you deliberately and strategically spread out and withdraw to fragment your opponent's clumped army, you can enjoy focus firing on their units one at a time.

[Terminus]

You seem to be confusing real life tactics with what actually occurs in games. A land raider full of melee will be centrally deployed because a flank deployment can leave them out of range. A tank like a vindicator will be centrally deployed because a flank deployment, you guessed, leaves them out of range.

 

You can't withdraw when that cuts your firepower by 66% and a spartan needs one unmolested turn to do its job.

 

You will never have this perfect situation of "withdrawing your forces" (from objectives you need to capture or hold), to "fragment the enemy" (by allowing his deadliest unit to reach your lines), and "focus fire enemies one at a time" (because apparently they only brought a spartan and contents, and not equal points worth of stuff, because reasons).

[Captain Idaho]

I confuse nothing. Even normal 24" range Vindicators should have sufficient range. Thing is, that Spartan is moving towards us, right?

[Terminus]

Again you seem to think the Spartan is the only thing in the army and there is nothing else coming at you or that you need to shoot. Regardless, Laser Vindicators are a poor way to engage Spartans. By the time its close enough for you to have angles at the side armor, it's job is done.  Nothing more need be said, really.

[Slips]

But, the Original Question is, in general, which is a better investment: LasVindicator or Shatter Mortars?

 

So lets get back to that.

[Terminus]

Both are solid performers, but I would give it to Mortars, due to better performance against AV13 or less through rate of fire, being able to engage infantry targets with alternate rounds if no AV is around, Legiones Astartes rules, and being in a less competitive slot. 

[Cadmus Tyro]

Which legion do you play? I'm contemplating quad mortars for my XXth as (correct me if I'm wrong) they can infiltrate with the correct mutable tactic - gaining side armour shots. They also provide more utility than the laser vindicator - they can switch to an anti- infantry role If needed. I love the laser vindicator model though!

[Jolemai]

Folks, you're not using PotMS to fire the Laser Destroyer Array at two/three different targets when using Capacitor/Overcharged Fire are you?

[Terminus]

The machine spirit goes on the second tank so it can fire at a different target. No one is splitting fire with a single vehicle, and if someone takes machine spirit on every tank, they are wasting points.