Laser vindicators vs quad launchers+shatter

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

 

They're both pretty immobile though, which causes issues when you're dealing with flare shields. "High end armor" is better dealt with via graviton, Sicarian Venators or melta bombs, in that order.

You aren't killing a Spartan, Triaros or Malcador with either option unless your opponent derps hard with facing.

You see for the same price you can get 2 cortus with 2 grav guns each. Then you have to get them into range and survive.

The 2/3 pred option is a good choice for that.

Once your in position behind cover or troops you have a better chance of survival and 6 laser destroyer shots is likely to cause some serious damage. Being ap1 and all. And it's a further range than the 12" grav gun.

I was thinking grav rapiers for a better comparison. Dreads seem like a pretty far range outside the conversational parameters.

 

They're 36" in range, same as the laser destroyer Vindicators. They also ignore flare shields, which laser destroyers are 90% neutered by. AP 1 doesn't do you any good if you can only manage glancing hits. Graviton creates a difficult terrain test per template that the vehicle has to traverse if it wants to move.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that AV13 in cover is more resilient than 2/3 T7 wounds in cover, except in the narrow niche of grav bombards.

 

 

The artillery is definitely more survivable plus it does not always require LoS to be effective. AV13 seems very flimsy to me.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If talking about antitank as implied by the title, then los is always a factor since shatter shells aren't barrage.

 

Artillery is usually pretty good for surviving, but the things that are hard counters make that disparity irrelevant; anti tank punches through av13, anti artillery removes the unit

[Theredknight]

Exactly.

As said before Spartans aren't the only thing in a game.

I compared grav platforms that are mobile. Artillery grav isn't. You have other suggestions terminus?

 

I'm not going to argue with you about what's best at what, my opinion is that las vindis are awesome, and in my experience wipe out enemy armour. That simple.

Not everyone takes a spartan or two. Majority of players I play don't. Even at tournaments one you might deal with, but you set up to deal with that in mind.

[Terminus]

RAW artillery platforms can move and fire.

 

There is also a whole lot more anti-tank than anti-artillery. No one is maligning the Vindicator, it's a solid choice, but point for point two quad mortars are better than 1 Vindicator for all of the reasons I mentioned before.

[Theredknight]

You see I have some I my group that contest that, but mobility of a vindi will still be better than those.

 

It really depends on legion/play style etc on the choice.

 

Both are pretty solid it's whatever fits in better, rapiers as IH are almost a no brainer, but then ferrus and other things gives the vindi extra rules and possible outflank.

 

Personally I take both, because I love bombarding that tactical squad at the back hidden away with 3 quad mortars worth of shells hitting them 50 something times and las vindis blowing up contemptors. Any Spartans etc get the full treatment from both, any grav temptors and a deredeo if it gets desperate.

 

I suppose synergy with the rest of your army goes in there too.

[Terminus]

Moving Vindicators are very underwhelming, 130 points is not worth 1 shot.

[Ishagu]

At least it can redeploy and get a shot off :-)

[Brofist]

So can rapiers

[Theredknight]

Rapiers are limited in their movement range though. Tanks can move on the shooting phase too.

 

I'm talking about careful sneaking and if needs be having the option to re deploy them into better firing positions.

 

You wouldn't want to move them of course, but 36" is a short range.id rather sacrifice a turn of shooting knowing I can set them up for 3 shots a peice blasting for all the following turns.

 

Rapiers don't have that luxury.

[Captain Idaho]

Personally I don't think 36" is too bad for 40K games/rules. The main issue is rather line of sight. People's terrain collections are getting better and the opportunity to see the whole board from your deployment zone is rarer.

[Baluc]

Laser vidicators always seem so underwhelming to me, especially in a very croweded Heavy support slot, I've also never really had problems with Spartans though so this possibly may bias me. With the updated red book, I would rather just use a Knight Gallant and Reaper Chainsword the Spartan off the table.

 

Ultimately I suppose it depends on the play style of your local meta. If I took a Spartan I would just be driving it 18" up the board in my first turn totally negating if it dies or not. 3 laser vindicators aren't killing it by themselves, and once you start adding things like cover, LoS, other targets like DDP Leviathans and the like. You are going to find your AV firepower very stretched.

 

The Spartan is tough, that is its whole point. Usually if the circumstances prevent me from being able to kill the Spartan before its crossed no man's land I just use the turn to kill as much of my opponents army as possible so the unit inside is as unsupported as I can get it. Quad Mortars do that better than Laser vindicators. Also I find nothing is as good a deterrent to mad dashing across the board with a transport than a Knight.

 

In an Armoured Breakthough list regular vindicators are superior as well, since they have the movement (due to fast) to get of side shots.

[Terminus]

They feel super underwhelming if you play with Krios Venators. :D