Terminus Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Too mean? Any weaknesses? I can see large fearless militia zealots being an issue, and deep striking Leviathans causing trouble to my emplaced vehicles. HQ: Archmagos Reductor with master-crafted power fist, rad grenades, cyber familiar, machinator array - 230 Elites: 3x Myrmidon Secutors with graviton guns - 210 Dedicated Transport: Triaros Conveyer with smoke launchers - 140 Troops: 6x Thallax, destructor protocols, 2x plasma fusils, 2x heavy chainblades - 300 Troops: 6x Thallax, destructor protocols, 2x plasma fusils, 2x heavy chainblades - 300 Fast Attack: Avenger Strike Fighter, battle servitors, 2x kraken missiles - 190 Heavy Support: 2x Krios Venators - 300 Heavy Support: 2x Medusas with siege shields, 1x machine spirit - 300 Heavy Support: 5x Myrmidon Destructors with 4x imploders, 1x thruster - 390 Dedicated Transport: Triaros Conveyer with smoke launchers - 140 2500 on the nose The second Krios is a flex spot which can open up 150 points for more upgrades or something else. If the format allows for alternate FOC charts, then this can be run as Matrix of Ruin by splitting the Venator squadron. And here's a 2500 point Cybernetica list. This is more for fun than competitiveness, with only two slow scoring units. HQ: Archdominus Skoria - 315 HQ: Magos Dominus with machinator array and photon gauntlet - 110 Troops: 3x Castellax with double flamers, two with power blades - 365 Troops: 2x Castellax with darkfire cannons, targetting arrays - 280 Troops: 2x Castellax with darkfire cannons, targetting arrays - 280 Troops: 10x Adsecularis, rite of pure thought - 50 Troops: 10x Adsecularis, rite of pure thought - 50 Fast Attack: 4x Vorax with bio ammo, 2x cleansers - 380 Fast Attack: Homonculex with arc scourge - 185 Fast Attack: Arlatax with arc scourge, paragon of metal - 220 Heavy: Thanatar with targetting array - 265 2500 points To expand to 3000 points I add another Castellax with flamers and mauler (115) [not sure if to run 4x strong or two 2x units] and 2 more Vorax with bio ammo (180), which leaves me with 205 points. I am kind of waiting for that new flying thing we're supposed to get that will hopefully shore up the list's weakness to aircraft. Otherwise, I'd spend the remaining points on another Magos and some anti-air fortification. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Taking an Magos Prime with Ordinator would make the 1st list meaner. :) Wrecker & Armourbane attacks, with a jet pack, joining a Thallax squad? I'd also take melta bombs and photon thrusters instead of heavy chainblades and phased-plasma on said Thallax. If running Matrix of Ruin, I'd split the Medusae up to save the points from Machine Spirit. With the Myrmidon Destructors, I'd make the photon thruster an irradiation engine for some anti-blob. Finally, no Abeyant on the Archmagos Reductor? :/ 2nd list is awesome. Hard to go past Scoria. :) If you could find points to give the Tech-thralls carapace armour, I'd do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4506278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 The first list is Reductor, so an Ordinator Magos is not an option. Venators can't get machine spirit, which is why their squadron is first in line to be split. Few things really need to be shot at *8* times with their gun vs. "just" 4. We play meltabombs by the FAQ, so they are a less attractive choice, but I have run the tankhunting photon thruster Thallax with a Magos before (although I took a Myrmidax with two thrusters instead of the Ordinator). It's not a bad way to go. The photon thruster is a fun option, to be honest, for the potential concussion/blind interactions. I see a lot more Primarchs and Leviathans, the weakness to blobs I suspect is mostly theoretical rather than practical to my likely adversaries. Abeyant I would absolutely love to have if only to ignore my own graviton templates since the Magos goes with the Secutors. I suppose I could cut the chainblades and a smoke launcher for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4506851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 HQ: Archdominus Skoria - 315 HQ: Magos Dominus with machinator array and photon gauntlet - 110 Troops: 3x Castellax with double flamers, two with power blades - 365 Troops: 2x Castellax with darkfire cannons, targetting arrays - 280 Troops: 2x Castellax with darkfire cannons, targetting arrays - 280 Troops: 10x Adsecularis, rite of pure thought - 50 Troops: 10x Adsecularis, rite of pure thought - 50 Fast Attack: 4x Vorax with bio ammo, 2x cleansers - 380 Fast Attack: Homonculex with arc scourge - 185 Fast Attack: Arlatax with arc scourge, paragon of metal - 220 Heavy: Thanatar with targetting array - 265 2500 points My 2.5k Cybernetica list is kinda similar; - Scoria w/scorpion body - Dominus w/augury scanner, infravisor, meltabombs - ETA Darkfire Castellax w/siege wrecker, ETA Darkfire Castellax - ETA Darkfire Castellax w/siege wrecker, ETA Darkfire Castellax - 2x Arlatax w/arc scourge - 2x Arlatax w/arc scourge - Homonculex - Thanatar - Thanatar My local Legion players still tend to go infantry heavy for now, so Thanatars are taken to deal with them. I'm considering just taking more Darkfire Castellax though. I have a local Solar Auxilia mech list that is scary as hell. At least Barrage ignores flare shields and front AV, and Ordnance means the hellex mortar even has a decent chance of glancing (which is all I want, so I can shut down the Dracosan Demolisher cannon). I feel like Scoria wants you to run as many Arlatax as possible, to get maximum use out of Rite of the Beast and his Forbidden Protocols. Vorax are good on paper but the fact remains is that minus Scout move they're just as slow as Castellax, but substantially easier to kill. Arlatax do their job better and are still able to claw tanks to death reliably. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4515115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 Vorax are there because I have 6, like the models, and they deliver Skoria up the board. It also lets me run two independent Paragon of Metal Arlatax. The list you propose is very potent, but also feels spammy, which is not something I am fond of in 30K. However given the examples you cite of things you face, that approach may be what you need locally. Our meta is not quite as cut-throat, and thankfully most folks share my appreciation for unit variety. I also wouldn't really want to buy 5 of them, as I expect it will be a pricey model and a pain in the ass to assemble. Now I am figuring out how to adjust the list to fit the new flying thingamabob, and may drop the big Castellax unit which would let me get a drone and increase the Arlatax to 2-strong (and transfer paragon back to Thanatar). Hopefully the Arlatax are out before next march, so i have time to assemble/paint three of them (plus any homonculex conversion work that may be required). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4518619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Vorax are there because I have 6, like the models, and they deliver Skoria up the board. It also lets me run two independent Paragon of Metal Arlatax. Oh yeah by all means run what you like. I prefer Arlatax for the reason I mentioned. I feel like Vorax were designed for Zone Mortalis more than normal battles. Same for Thallax. The list you propose is very potent, but also feels spammy, which is not something I am fond of in 30K. However given the examples you cite of things you face, that approach may be what you need locally. You spam Castellax in your original list though? I actually don't like taking more than 4, even in Cybernetica. They're a great gun platform but their slowness leaves them vulnerable to getting charged first by faster enemies. Our meta is not quite as cut-throat, and thankfully most folks share my appreciation for unit variety. I also wouldn't really want to buy 5 of them, as I expect it will be a pricey model and a pain in the ass to assemble. Now I am figuring out how to adjust the list to fit the new flying thingamabob, and may drop the big Castellax unit which would let me get a drone and increase the Arlatax to 2-strong (and transfer paragon back to Thanatar). Hopefully the Arlatax are out before next march, so i have time to assemble/paint three of them (plus any homonculex conversion work that may be required). I'd advise against building lists your opponents are comfortable with. That's like the definition of playing into their hands. Mix things up, take stuff they don't have good answers for. I've seen people kitbashing Arlatax out of Domitars, I'm tempted to go that route if FW keep dragging their heels on releasing the model. Vultarax are gonna make me drop two Arlatax out of my lists, they're just absurdly good value and really plug two major holes in Cybernetica lists (good Skyfire to handle Flyers, and anti-armour that isn't affected by flare shields and Armoured Ceramite). You can probably get by with two Arlatax and the Homonculex. That's two potent melee threats you can buff and will split enemy heavy weapons fire quite well. Vultarax meanwhile just laugh in binary as the enemy is forced to Snap Fire. Even more amusingly, you'll kill a Deredeo and most Flyers before they'll kill off the maniple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4519880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 My original list had 7, with different equipment, and overall 5 different non-character units. Your list has 3 different units all identically equipped. I know they aren't the absolute optimal choice, but they are the army's troop choice so should be numerous. But fair enough, you can call both lists spammy, in which case yours is extra spammy. :DAnyway, don't get me wrong, I appreciate all input even if I don't implement it! Regarding "playing into my opponent's hands", we build comfortable lists because we like scenarios and fun, not being :cusss. We leave that to the 40K group. ` Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4520322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 My original list had 7, with different equipment, and overall 5 different non-character units. Your list has 3 different units all identically equipped. I know they aren't the absolute optimal choice, but they are the army's troop choice so should be numerous. But fair enough, you can call both lists spammy, in which case yours is extra spammy. I like redundancy. You can call it what you like, but I find taking one of anything just makes it easy for your opponent to kill it and thus remove that as an option. I don't field Castellax without darkfire because they're a waste of points otherwise. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I appreciate all input even if I don't implement it! Regarding "playing into my opponent's hands", we build comfortable lists because we like scenarios and fun, not being :cusss. We leave that to the 40K group. ` That's all well and good but if you just wanna build comfortable lists why ask for advice? You can play for scenario and fun, doesn't mean you have to field jank. Cybernetica isn't even the OP Mechanicum list IMO, I think Reductor is more likely to lose you friends (especially in larger games where the four Heavy slots and double Lord of War in Matrix of Ruin can get disgusting). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4523576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 Like I said, I appreciate input even if I don't act upon it. I understand the logic behind your list, I just find it boring from a modelling perspective. No need to take it so personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4523731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 My 2.5k Cybernetica list is kinda similar; - Scoria w/scorpion body - Dominus w/augury scanner, infravisor, meltabombs - ETA Darkfire Castellax w/siege wrecker, ETA Darkfire Castellax - ETA Darkfire Castellax w/siege wrecker, ETA Darkfire Castellax - 2x Arlatax w/arc scourge - 2x Arlatax w/arc scourge - Homonculex - Thanatar - Thanatar My local Legion players still tend to go infantry heavy for now, so Thanatars are taken to deal with them. I'm considering just taking more Darkfire Castellax though. I have a local Solar Auxilia mech list that is scary as hell. At least Barrage ignores flare shields and front AV, and Ordnance means the hellex mortar even has a decent chance of glancing (which is all I want, so I can shut down the Dracosan Demolisher cannon). I feel like Scoria wants you to run as many Arlatax as possible, to get maximum use out of Rite of the Beast and his Forbidden Protocols. Vorax are good on paper but the fact remains is that minus Scout move they're just as slow as Castellax, but substantially easier to kill. Arlatax do their job better and are still able to claw tanks to death reliably. Can I ask what your scoring units are? I know you can take Castellax as compulsory troops (must), but they are still not scoring because of the Cortex right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4550270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Can I ask what your scoring units are? I know you can take Castellax as compulsory troops (must), but they are still not scoring because of the Cortex right? Legio Cybernetica don't get to score. That would be way too OP. Terminators, Veteran Marksman, Predator squadons, Krios Venators and Dracosans however are totally fine and balanced :^) Yeah 'Machine Creature' is the rule if you need to know. No units with Cybernetica Cortex can score ever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325980-2500-reductor-and-cybernetica/#findComment-4551362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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