Thedarkprincesnun Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I wouldn't say no to all super detachment's because some of them arent that bad (like the black crusade one) Also limiting psychic dice is silly considering certain armies actually require alot of dice to work well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 It's always funny to see how people has the effrontery to say that Typhons or primarchs are OP but not knight armies or wraithguard. Of course they aren't LoW after all . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 But Wraithguard arent OP. Wraithknights are. WG are T5 3+ save with a very powerful but short range gun. Unless they can pinpoint deepstrike them onto you (dark eldar ally with wwp), then theyre ez-pz dealt with if you can/know how to kill Iron Hands Tacticals (effectivley T5 3+ save). Additionally, theres a reason why Knight armies aren't prevalent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I just checked, Wraithguard are T6, not T5. They can be nasty, but they lack the rules that make the Wraithlord and Wraithknight brutal to deal with. Wraithguard are relatively slow, and require a transport to make them work well, which means a wave serpent. As I previously stated Sicarans will make eldar players cry. Knight armies, while being a thing, are not too terribly prevalent as Slipstreams said. There a re a couple of reasons. First, knights are expensive, and while yes there is the renegades box, it's still way out of most players budgets. I will probably never have more than the 3 knights I currently own (I don't really want any more than that). Second, they cost way too much to field, and are quite vulnerable on their own. Knights need support to beat their most effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Sicarans don't make Eldar players cry. Last time I faced Eldar I had to contend with double digit D shooting each turn and t8 Gargantuans :-( It's those same D weapons that ruined the usability of Knights in various Metas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Plus WK are I5 and undercosted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Sicarans don't make Eldar players cry. Allow me to rephrase my statement to be more accurate. Sicarans in sufficient numbers will make Eldar cry. If you take the proper Rite of War, you can get 7 sicarans and 4 predators in a 1500 point list. I mean your whole list will be tanks at that point. It's absurd I agree, and no one would ever do it, but the point is that if you give some units some thought you can defeat anything. Last time I faced Eldar I had to contend with double digit D shooting each turn and t8 Gargantuans :-( How many wraithknights did he bring? Guys sounds like a real champion of human decency... It's those same D weapons that ruined the usability of Knights in various Metas. That I can agree with. Along with the points I mentioned. Plus WK are I5 and undercosted. That's probably true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Counter-Eldar talk is nice and all but we're also deviating away from the Original Point of the topic which is finding a balancing point between 30k/40k play and how to go about it. As it stands, just straight up forcing everyone to use the AoD FoC goes a looooong way to neutering a lot of the crazy Xenos Shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4513991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supe robot gangster #1 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Counter-Eldar talk is nice and all but we're also deviating away from the Original Point of the topic which is finding a balancing point between 30k/40k play and how to go about it. As it stands, just straight up forcing everyone to use the AoD FoC goes a looooong way to neutering a lot of the crazy Xenos Shenanigans. Or even just a regular FOC. I just flat out refuse to play against 40k using formations, in saying that I don't really play anyone here anymore. Everyone (even the 30k crowd) power game and only use cheese lists, so the joy of gaming is no longer there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4514099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I was using the Eldar as an example, since they have probably the greatest variety of cheese available to be played. Tau Cheese is almost mono build, and Space Marines are predictably overpowered for what they do. Fact of the matter the same sort of logic could be applied to fighting Tau, Necrons, Space Marines, or anyone else really. I have several armies which can make use of the formations, and I can make use of them myself. I don't though, because I do not like them. I think they introduce a huge amount of complexity to the game, and they just make the list too busy as well as being lazy. I won't say that I wouldn't ever play against them, because I would. I have to, otherwise I'd never get a pick up game, ever. I'd really need to play a couple of games against 40k armies to really see how they stack up. I will say that it is the Formations and detachments and the seeming emphasis on cheese is what has driven me to 30k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4514140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 My little group of 5 has just banned formations and lords of war in games sub 2000 points. So either cad or aod foc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4515595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 I actually think Formations are less broken in smaller games because of the restrictions on army choice. If you can have EVERYTHING and put them in the cheesey Formations too then of course I'm in for a beating! For the record, I've gone cost effective in army building and won't have 7 Sicarians (or even one) and likely will keep to a predominantly infantry based list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4515680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 I'm with Slips - bring back FOC. Job done! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4515688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I actually think Formations are less broken in smaller games because of the restrictions on army choice. If you can have EVERYTHING and put them in the cheesey Formations too then of course I'm in for a beating! Somewhat. I'm really bored with the whole formation craze. I also started to play guard, who didn't have any fancy formation nonsense for the longest time. Simple CAD, was all I needed. For the record, I've gone cost effective in army building and won't have 7 Sicarians (or even one) and likely will keep to a predominantly infantry based list. I want a couple Sicarans, but I won't be doing that either. Too expensive and very vulnerable to assault. I'll stick with my Knights as an ally. I'm with Slips - bring back FOC. Job done! I'm all about that AoD FOC. The regular CAD always seemed too restrictive to me, especially given that I love playing elites heavy armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326144-marrying-40k-and-the-age-of-darkness/page/2/#findComment-4515892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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