Genestealer Cults

[Teetengee]

Something to keep in mind: Gue'Vesa are allowed on the board, but you can only include models that are based on human forms. No AI technology for counts as IG units. I think a similar call could be made on GC, where purestrains and similar are disallowed (except perhaps in army shots, and no discussion for sure) but the others are not. Furthermore, perhaps ban them from the tactics section except to the allies/overlap level of tactical discussion? (That is actually trickier, as far as I am concerned.)

In any case, I think we should all revisit this discussion once we know more about just how the GC actually work within the context of the game. For instance, if Chaos Genestealer Cults become a thing again, I imagine that might change how we view this, or might not: we don't allow khorne orks after all.

[Doghouse]

I think it is the Genestealer part that is working against them here.

 

It's a tricky one, I mean is there anything to stop anyone posting an army of generic cultists using these models? Do they have to be worshippers of chaos or some other insidious faction within the Imperium, say a rogue Priest for example? For the most part a true cult will not reveal it's true nature to the masses for fear of persecution. 

 

I think it fundamentally boils down to the space marine credo of "Suffer not the alien to live" 

 

Much like the background material it could be a precarious first step of xenos infiltrating the boards. B&C, while it has loosened it's adamantium gauntlet grip on the inclusion of other factions of the Imperium to the boards, stands out because it is predominantly and for the most part always has been a Space Marine forum as it's core focus.

 

Should this change? Honestly I couldn't say but I think it would lose it's flavour if it were to start including certain factions. 

 

You also need to look at how popular these cults will actually be once the hype has died down. Is it worth compromising for what might be a flash in the pan army?

 

Interesting debate guys. :)

[Dosjetka]

Donations made to the board do not entitle anyone to anything. If you donate, it's because you want this board to continue to exist for x, y, and/or z reason(s). Claiming otherwise will lead to severe disappointment.

[Arkangilos]

Of course not, but not many people in a community will continue to enjoy it if their objections are shut down "because I said so."

[Canadian_F_H]

I'm in the precarious position of absolutely loving this board as is, and wishing I had a place just like it and just as awesome to discuss my genestealer cult and tyranids... I feel this second part is a lot of why some folks want restrictions loosened on xenos in general. They love the board and want to bring other projects to light here within this community...

 

But integrity is hard to come by. I don't fault the administrations decision at all.

[Warsmith Uveron]

I'm in the precarious position of absolutely loving this board as is, and wishing I had a place just like it and just as awesome to discuss my genestealer cult and tyranids... I feel this second part is a lot of why some folks want restrictions loosened on xenos in general. They love the board and want to bring other projects to light here within this community...

I think you are on the money there. Maybe a good solution for people wanting to discuss non allowed army's could be a sub-forum, which lets members point to other sites with discussions they want input on. With the rule of no discussion on the B&C.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Come on guys: we haven't even seen the codex, we haven't seen the fiction. We barely know anything about the Cults themselves, and the organization thereof except some small snippets on the website. Perhaps when the release is over and we've got more information the current stance on Genestealer Cults will change, but until then I think Brother Tyler made the Admins' stance quite clear: GSC will not be allowed on the Bolter and Chainsword. And we may bicker and complain, and we may raise our voices to point things out, but ultimately we, the frater, don't get to decide board policy.. It's not our place. That's probably a good thing, too. If it was so, this forum would have most likely descended into chaos and anarchy long ago. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you can't accept that, perhaps the B&C is not for you.

[Canadian_F_H]

All jokes aside about the board descending into CHAOS and anarchy... lol

 

Its fine if they don't change their mind so long as they are willing to look at the final form of th is release first imo. Ie, look, affirm original conviction. At least one looked right?

 

Again I agree with the administration's conclusion and anticipate it will be reaffirmed. As much as that discourages me from working on my xenos. Sharing here is a big motivation.

[Soldier of Dorn]

All jokes aside about the board descending into CHAOS and anarchy... lol

 

Its fine if they don't change their mind so long as they are willing to look at the final form of th is release first imo. Ie, look, affirm original conviction. At least one looked right?

 

Again I agree with the administration's conclusion and anticipate it will be reaffirmed. As much as that discourages me from working on my xenos. Sharing here is a big motivation.

 

I don't disagree that it's much more encouraging to be able to share on the B&C: hell, I quit working on Tyranids mostly because I can't share them with this community. That being said, I don't want the board to change to a more Xenos-tolerant view. The first step on that road is allowing near-Human Factions like Gue'vesa (and I don't mean Guard count-as. I mean actual, Imperial Armor 3 Gue'vesa.) and Genestealer Cult. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and at the moment it's pretty well defined.

[Canadian_F_H]

Agreed.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Of course it's the admins last word...

 

This is post #39.

 

If that changes, we may revisit the decision. Until that time, Genestealer Cults aren't allowed here.

 

This is post #26. From an Admin. To quote the great Dick Jones: "Pretty simple math, huh, Bob?"

[Atia]

 

Of course it's the admins last word...

This is post #39.

If that changes, we may revisit the decision. Until that time, Genestealer Cults aren't allowed here.

This is post #26. From an Admin. To quote the great Dick Jones: "Pretty simple math, huh, Bob?"

And said admin comment was posted before evidence of 1:1 AM units within the Codex got posted? "Simple math, huh?"

[Arkangilos]

So to shoot my own foot, I think a pretty good against argument would be that chaos humans can ascend, and so even though they may be daemons, they are often led by ascended humans. So even if Daemons aren't human, humans benefit far more from it. Genestealer Cults don't ascend, they get eaten, and their leaders aren't humans.

 

So maybe that is where the dividing line needs to be. Are the leaders humans, or are they aliens.

 

Because honestly, if that isn't the dividing line then we can't do non chaos renegades either. Non chaos renegades don't fit the "Imperium" or the "chaos to drive the Imperium down" criteria.

 

(I'm still pro GC cults though :( )

[Brother Tyler]

You guys are thinking too hard about this.

 

The site is about the armies of Humanity (i.e., the Imperium) and Chaos.

 

Under the current Genestealer Cult rules, they belong to the Tyranids faction, so they don't belong here.

 

When the updated rules come out, we'll look at them and determine if there is any place for the Genestealer Cults here at the B&C, whether as a full blown codex that we allow or under limited conditions (such as the dummies that align themselves with the fish-faces).

 

In the meantime, there's no point getting all worked up about things.

[Atia]

You guys are thinking too hard about this.

 

The site is about the armies of Humanity (i.e., the Imperium) and Chaos.

 

Under the current Genestealer Cult rules, they belong to the Tyranids faction, so they don't belong here.

 

When the updated rules come out, we'll look at them and determine if there is any place for the Genestealer Cults here at the B&C, whether as a full blown codex that we allow or under limited conditions (such as the dummies that align themselves with the fish-faces).

 

In the meantime, there's no point getting all worked up about things.

I'm just curious. What is if someone wants to do a Chaos Genestealer Cult (as this army had rules back then, and now, depending on the allies matrix rules, will be playable again) as army project? (I'm not talking about rule discussion or anything, and I'm talking about clearly chaos - so f.e. khorne runes on the models etc). It's still a grey zone, but would that be one of the "limited condition"? I can post you the full army list from back then, basically it was Genestealer Cult + marked or possessed Patriarch + mutants + daemons + beastmen. 

[Brother Tyler]

For now, no. The normal rules for Xenos apply to the Genestealer Cults.

 

I see all of the Genestealer Cult discussions popping up as people try to push the inclusion agenda, but the forum rules haven't changed in this regard.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Yep, still pretty simple math. No means no.

[shandwen]

Perhaps it is a good time to review the focus only being on imperium and chaos. The lines in 40k have become very fluid, and humanity now has another form. The key phrase "humanity resplendent" is one that fits GSCs as well as it fits chaos, and frankly I wish that this site was open to all of 40k as there is no site that comes close to the same community outside of this one.

Also the "because I said so" phrasing of many replies (and blatantly rude mods I have dealt with) will drive many people away, and have as much of a chance to kill this site as 40k has of dying off on its own.

[Arkangilos]

By the way, I agree with Brother Tyler's judgement, and agree we should lay off it for now. He said they'd consider it.

 

But your post was completely unnecessary BCK.

 

You could have easily explained it the way you will in the post below this which will create a far less hostile environment.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The narrow focus of this site is what makes it great. Allowing everything 40k (and more) as some other sites do leads to a furious pace of new posts and threads which can be difficult to keep up with and a lot of content can easily be missed. It also helps prevent massive amounts of off-topic posts and thread derailings due to the limited scope (and there's already a huge amount of off-topic posts).

 

I don't think my post was unnecessary, even though it was mostly aimed at Atia's response, because an admin has said twice now that that the answer is no and people still can't seem to understand that. When the codex drops, there will be a closer evaluation of whether or not to include them on this site, but for now, the answer is no with no further reason to keep hammering on it.

[Dosjetka]

In addition to what BCK has said, the recent stats (from about a year ago, IIRC) show that the number of people visiting the site is constantly going up so I'm personally not overly worried about this focus scaring people away. We have a strong community here with a certain set of standards that we strive to maintain. It's not the ideal place for everyone, I'll agree, but it's worked so far and shall continue to do so.

Arkanglios: If you have an issue with a Moderator, please take it up via PM with an Admin. Arguing about it in a thread is not the way to go about it.

[Arkangilos]

"the answer is no and people still can't seem to understand that"

 

Just because he says no doesn't mean people can't debate it.

 

People understand that he says no. They just don't agree and so will say why they don't.

[Bryan Blaire]

Wait there was an army list for Gue'vesa Guard????

Even if there is, it would be off-topic to discuss it here in this thread.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The original question of if the Genestealer Cults should be included on the Bolter and Chainsword has been answered by an admin, and by admin request, the thread is being closed. As previously stated, further evaluation by the admins and moderators will happen when the codex is released to determine if it should have a place here.

 

http://i.imgur.com/u9yQtVs.gif

[Brother Tyler]

Note that with the release of the codex, the Administrators are discussing the suggestion.

 

Once we make a decision, we will notify you in this topic.