How many meltabombs can I use in assault?

[noigrim]

Have no idea how many, one per model? just one per unit?

[Slips]

Seeing as the FAQ isn't actually finalized, the answer to your question depends on your answer to mine:

 

Are you/your group:

1. Using the GW Draft FAQ?
2. Not using the GW Draft FAQ?

If you answered yes to #1, 1 melta bomb as it currently stands per unit.

 

If you answered yes to #2, As many as you have models capable of using them in CC.

[shandwen]

Seeing as the FAQ isn't actually finalized, the answer to your question depends on your answer to mine:

 

Are you/your group:

• Using the GW Draft FAQ?
• Not using the GW Draft FAQ?

If you answered yes to #1, 1 melta bomb as it currently stands per unit.

 

If you answered yes to #2, As many as you have models capable of using them in CC.

But if you answered #2 but consider using a grenade/meltabomb in cc to still be "throwing" it then only 1.

[noigrim]

throwing would be a shooting attack

[Theredknight]

I shan't voice my opinion on the 'draft rule' that horse was well and truly flogged, flogged, and the flogged again for good measure.

 

I don't count the drafts as 'legal' personally, and no one should as they are that, a draft, not an official faq or errata.

Makes getting those melta bomb assault marines into bombing time all the more exciting!

[Quixus]

throwing would be a shooting attack

Got any rule backing that up?

[Jimm]

I think the general consensus is one per squad however many gaming groups Inc the one I play in think this is an oversight and play it that multiple can be used in assalt.

If you regularly play with the same people I'd discus it with them and iron it out.

[Quixus]

I'll ask you this: How many krak grenades can be used in the assault phase? As far as I can tell the rules are identical (except for the profiles).

[Guiltysparc]

1 per unit per phase, its clearly stated in the BRB.  The distinction people are trying to make in the verb used to apply the grenade is just rationalization.

[Quixus]

1 per unit per phase, its clearly stated in the BRB.  The distinction people are trying to make in the verb used to apply the grenade is just rationalization.

I know. I really wondered about why such a question was answered in the FAQ. It is clear as day - for krak grenades as well as melta-bombs.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Only being able to use one grenade or bomb in an assault phase just makes MCs, GMCs and SHWs even more powerful than they already are.... they don't really need any more help either. Overall I like the draft FAQs GW has released but not this particular one.

[Quixus]

Only being able to use one grenade or bomb in an assault phase just makes MCs, GMCs and SHWs even more powerful than they already are.... they don't really need any more help either. Overall I like the draft FAQs GW has released but not this particular one.

Yeah but de facto just having to run up to a (super heavy) vehicle with a unit with meltabombs to destroy it, does not sound good either,

[Brofist]

 

Only being able to use one grenade or bomb in an assault phase just makes MCs, GMCs and SHWs even more powerful than they already are.... they don't really need any more help either. Overall I like the draft FAQs GW has released but not this particular one.

Yeah but de facto just having to run up to a (super heavy) vehicle with a unit with meltabombs to destroy it, does not sound good either,

 

 

Except that it's intentional design on the part of the 30k writing team. You pay a hefty amount of points to equip an entire squad with bombs so it can do exactly what you wrote. It's been this way for years and it's an important part of hour our system balances itself.

 

It's a stretch to argue that RAI in 30k squads cannot be equipped with multiple bombs to bunker bust, slag MCs, or pop tanks. People can argue about the intent of the unofficial FAQ, but the RAI is clear.

 

Personally I dread the upcoming edition because it's going to do this x10 over

[Quixus]

 

 

Only being able to use one grenade or bomb in an assault phase just makes MCs, GMCs and SHWs even more powerful than they already are.... they don't really need any more help either. Overall I like the draft FAQs GW has released but not this particular one.

Yeah but de facto just having to run up to a (super heavy) vehicle with a unit with meltabombs to destroy it, does not sound good either,

 

 

Except that it's intentional design on the part of the 30k writing team. You pay a hefty amount of points to equip an entire squad with bombs so it can do exactly what you wrote. It's been this way for years and it's an important part of hour our system balances itself.

 

It's a stretch to argue that RAI in 30k squads cannot be equipped with multiple bombs to bunker bust, slag MCs, or pop tanks. People can argue about the intent of the unofficial FAQ, but the RAI is clear.

 

Personally I dread the upcoming edition because it's going to do this x10 over

 

Unless the writers actually come forth and state their intentions, this is nothing but guesswork. They might just have been under the erroneous impression that you could use multiple melta-bombs in the assault phase and thus made multiple melta-bombs quite expensive. Once they are apprised of their error will drop the cost considerably, or just leave it the same no matter.

 

It is just silly that every marine has his own breaching charge and the squad plasters them all over a tank.

[Guiltysparc]

Part of the confusion is that this was change made in the 7E rulebook and HH was written in for an earlier eddition when you could use as many grenades as you want.  So, clearly, the HH team intended you to drop as many bombs as you wanted and just haven't changed it based on the 7E BRB.  

 

Thats also why this seems to be more commonly flubbed by veteran players; it would be a super easy thing to miss when reading the 7E book if you were already familiar with the 6E rules.  When i came back to the hobby i hadn't played since 2E, lol, so for as along as i've been playing 7E i've played it the way its written in the BRB since i looked it up the first time i wanted to use a grenade.

[Terminus]

You cannot make any assumptions about the intent of the FW writers, because they barely speak English and never read the 7th edition rulebook (see pinning artillery or missile barrage fliers).

 

 

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, per rules as written in the rulebook, you can throw 1.

 

Per how everyone has been playing it because no one read the 7th edition rulebook really after 6th, you can throw as many as you want.

 

Per the latest FAQ clarifying and citing the relevant rule in the rulebook, you can throw 1.

 

I feel it's a solid rule, throwing all of them made meltabomb/haywire units way too potent against walkers/MCs, and it always felt dumb that my killer robots would be afraid of militia because they would drown them in 40 krak grenades in melee.

 

Regarding the arguments about this, especially the ones that boil down to "the FAQ is not official yet", should say a lot about that person.  You have RAW and RAI stated from GW, which should be good enough, but insisting on an official publication before you give up an advantage is a hallmark of :cuss behavior. Just saying.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The argument was always over the RAW. Which was of course that "throw" means "used in either the shooting or assault phase"; throwing isn't a keyword or defined term, which means that its up for interpretation and 90% of people interpreted throwing as something that is done from range, and not something you would do when standing in front of a vehicle or bunker with the alternative being hit it with your fist or sword.

 

As for "the faq isn't official". It's going to be used like the Bible; people are going to pick and choose the parts they like the most and disregard the rest. Honestly Drop pod doors counting as part of the model and vehicle pivoting are terrible enough examples to make picking and choosing a no brainer. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Throw is a reference to shooting.

[Terminus]

The drop pod thing is most definitely a fair point, I guess I am inured to that one since 30K pods specifically open their doors.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well the drop pod one is a lose-lose because it means they have huge area denial for both friendly and enemy models since you can never be standing on another model that's alive. What if a pod comes down and there's dudes that would get within 1" of the doors? ow they can't be opened going back to the LOS thing. Is getting another 5-6" of disembark because of the doors really needed? Many problems to say the least

[Thanos33]

The Pod thing is the one really bad change in a relatively good update. It is really terrible. The vehicle pivoting was done for realism's sake I'm sure much like how they've slowed down everything with pile ins on initiative etc. They want realism to trump game play, that's how they designed 7th. In terms of game-play it's dumb but for realism it makes sense. It's like Sega Football vs. Madden's. 

The melta-bomb update makes unit options (which is the core of what HH is built around) more prevalent. "With every model can use melta-bombs" it innately makes all other upgrades pointless. A simple Marine unit, any Marine unit should have a weakness to say Dreads and Monsters but with a simple 5 point upgrade per member they now trump any non-Infantry unit in the game if they remain alive to assault it. DUMB!

This is really my only contention about the idea. "A model", should say, "One model" which is really where the update is coming from I believe. That being said it isn't official and until that time people are going to play however they wish. People fear change and will do whatever it takes to turn a positive into a negative. Sandbox mentality 

1 power fist + 1 melta-bomb per unit seems like a decent amount for a squad of Marines, you shouldn't be able to roll through any vehicle but have a small chance of getting lucky to destroy one. If it were thus though I believe 20 points for the ability to always use a single Melta-bomb should be enough (it's still better than a Power fist). Remember on average dice it's 14-15 so a pen on anything in the game almost and that's only 1 dice roll. Then you get +2 to that Penetration result. That's really powerful. 20 of those is STUPID! It also makes Terminators with Chain Fists more desirable as they now have all but disappeared from games due to Marine's being cheaper and having Melta-bomb answers for everything. 

That's my sense around melta-bombs in general, because being able to use 20 - 8 strength ap 1 Armourbane anything's is simply moronic in structure and anyone can see that. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can't argue that the melta bomb faq was targeted at balancing 30k it was a 40k main brb faq. If they had taken squad options for melta bombs away in the age of darkness list then maybe, but forgeworld clearly was rule building for the last editions where there was no contention about amount of grenades used.

[Thanos33]

You could in fact make the same argument you just made for the other side. Being the reason why Sergeants and Characters purchase the option separately in most cases .

The unit cost is scaling, this is a factor in using smaller units over larger units. So the point cost could simply be a scaling cost. The argument in fact might be stronger for the latter that 30k (HH) had taken those into affect and produced the points to counter. You could  use 1 melt-bomb on only the sergeant for instance. Or have an X point cost for the unit of 10, which given that upgrades are generally overpriced makes more sense than getting 20 8 strength AP 1 attacks with Armourbane.

[Slips]

That's a speculative deal but that being said it makes the game better regardless. I think it fixes a lot of what's wrong with 30K, the main fix needed in my opinion over anything else. Better is better, the reasoning behind is irrelevant.

 

 

You could in fact make the same argument you just made for the other side. Being the reason why Sergeants and Characters purchase the option separately in most cases . The unit cost is scaling because of which is a factor in using smaller units. So the point cost could simply be a scaling cost. The argument in fact might be stronger for the latter that 30k (HH) had taken those into affect and produced the points to counter. You could simply use 1 melt-bomb on only the sergeant for instance. Or have a 45/50 point cost for the unit of 10, which given that upgrades are generally overpriced makes more sense.

Heres the thing though, in 30k, apart from the majority of squad sergeants being able to buy Melta Bombs, only Destroyers, Assault Marines, Tac Vets and Breachers (and their Legion-Specific Counterparts) can buy melta bombs and they do so Squadwide at 5ppm in an all-or-nothing fashion.

 

So if you want Melta Bombs in your 20 Man Breacher Squad, +100pts. So, thats 20 PA dudes all with 1 Melta Bomb Attack costing ~300+ points. Hardly Overpowered.

 

And, in the case of Tac Vets, the Sergeant cant buy melta bombs and the only way to give it to him is with the Squadwide purchase. Which, if I can only use 1 per phase, is a ludicrous waste of points.

[Terminus]

Eh, veterans and destroyers buy it at a flat cost, so 25 points for 10 guys is 2.5 per bomb, which is not that bad.