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Corax- Book 40


Taliesin

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Eh, I don't think it's that ridiculous. It's an extreme reaction to an extreme situation: betrayal on an unthinkable scale, the sundering of the entire galaxy, years of civil war against those you knew as your brothers, the loss of 95% of his legion, his sons, being left weaker and more powerless than he's been since being reunited with the Emperor, and the revelation of the darker powers of the warp and just what they can do, and all topped with the conclusion that he, his sons and everything he's spent his life working towards are tainted by these dark powers. That's all pretty reality shattering, and I have no trouble believing it would all lead to self-sacrificial, even suicidal thoughts and impulses.

 

Also, while the vengeful, outraged "Punish the traitors!" attitudes from most of the loyalists are both understandable and can give rise to some very cool and satisfying scenes, it's nice to have someone who ultimately has a slightly different reaction to it all.

He was ready to throw his life away in a gamble to at least take out enough traitors / Angron as far back as Isstvan V, in Raven's Flight.

 

He's the ONLY Primarch of the loyalists who took part on the receiving end of the Dropsite Massacre who actually saw what it was like, for months. He saw his Legion torn to shreds, and on top of that two others. He saw Ferrus getting beheaded by his most trusted friend, and Vulkan was nowhere to be found. Corax was hit the hardest of the three Primarchs. No capture like Vulkan, no swift death like Ferrus, but all the trauma and loss, seeing not only his Legion die but also the dream of his father.

 

All the other loyalist Primarchs who went right back to opposing Horus and co were never as bluntly confronted with the scale of treachery. Guilliman lost a good amount, but even Calth wasn't as devastating to his Legion as Isstvan V was for Corax. Dorn didn't take part in the the battle of Phall, and while the Space Wolves got mangled, that happened over the course of months after Prospero, whereas on Prospero they were the aggressors and ready to lay down their lives.

Only Sanguinius's despair and resignation come close to Corax, and even he was faltering at times and keeps mourning his sons and the impure rage.

 

Corax also is depicted as a freedom fighter who actually cared about the people under his command. His shipmistress is literally a girl he saved when he was discovered on Lycaeus, and many of his Legion-sons were there with him in the beginning, when he freed Deliverance. He was deeply emotionally invested in his Legion, and that was all taken away, bonds shattered and his view of the galaxy turned on its head.

We've seen how affected the Iron Hands and Salamanders were after the Dropsite Massacre, but they got off lightly. They didn't spend 90ish days on the planet, being hunted for months.

 

He was ready to throw it all down just to hurt Horus as much as possible, but was given a chance to rebuild and make it whole again - and out of his own failings he not only had the experiments tampered with, the Emperor's gifts tainted beyond salvaging, and even LOST the stuff to the traitors, something he swore an oath to the Emperor to never let happen and destroying it before it could.

He failed his father entirely and created a host of monsters who kept degrading into worse and worse abominations. Of course he's at a loss there. Of course he is guilt-ridden. Is it really a surprise that a Primarch would see his only way to atone as death, and selling his life dearly?

Re Balsar Kuthuri

Hidden Content
Once he takes stocks of the stuff that's been hidden from him (valerius' vision of istvaan v, hef's killing of the Space Wolf), Corax decides his next steps and casts his 'long shadows': he sends back all the liabilities that have flocked ('traitor' legion loyalists, arcatus and his pretorians, the imperial fist contingent, and his librarium) back to Terra, honourably, but really for malcador to execute/pardon at will). Long Shadows was the codename of all the lycaeus rebels that were deemed too untrustworthy to be given critical tasks during the uprising, and were instead grouped into a suicide group whose mission was to blow the entire moon should the uprising fail. Better death than servitude.

So this is Corax tying up all his loose ends before making his final move. Which at that point of the novel works well; as i read it it felt increasingly like he was going to turn rogue, or was really losing it, which he was.

Kurthuri has a good parting line about the future of psykers, he's an interesting character for sure, even if only glimpsed.

@hopkins: The BL inner circle & IP lords all deserve credit/blame, but as Gav is the author of the ultimate product, he catches the flack.

if reading different opinions is tiring, there is nothing preventing you from not reading a post or using the ignore function.

Or maybe Gav could release something like the Last Chancers or AoD again, so I could sing his praises.

 

@DarkChaplain: There is a world of difference between sacrificing himself to allow his sons to escape vs ordering his fleet away and facing insurmountable odds just to die. If he wanted to die and atone, go to Terra. The traitors were headed there and he could have gotten his wish.

 

I like that Corax felt the massacre different from his brothers. Until Weregeld, I was fine with his coping methods. I simply think he went too far in Weregeld.

@hopkins: The BL inner circle & IP lords all deserve credit/blame, but as Gav is the author of the ultimate product, he catches the flack.

if reading different opinions is tiring, there is nothing preventing you from not reading a post or using the ignore function.

Or maybe Gav could release something like the Last Chancers or AoD again, so I could sing his praises.

 

@DarkChaplain: There is a world of difference between sacrificing himself to allow his sons to escape vs ordering his fleet away and facing insurmountable odds just to die. If he wanted to die and atone, go to Terra. The traitors were headed there and he could have gotten his wish.

 

I like that Corax felt the massacre different from his brothers. Until Weregeld, I was fine with his coping methods. I simply think he went too far in Weregeld.

 

 

count me as one of the people who doesn't mind corax's suicidal tendency, at least in theory.  quite a few of the imperium have come (or will come) to view primarchs as monsters. some of the traitor primarchs have embraced that and it makes sense that at least one of the loyalists would also come to accept it  and with loathing.

 

but like all these things, it comes down to the execution. i haven't read weregeld yet.

 

@hopkins: The BL inner circle & IP lords all deserve credit/blame, but as Gav is the author of the ultimate product, he catches the flack.

if reading different opinions is tiring, there is nothing preventing you from not reading a post or using the ignore function.

Or maybe Gav could release something like the Last Chancers or AoD again, so I could sing his praises.

 

@DarkChaplain: There is a world of difference between sacrificing himself to allow his sons to escape vs ordering his fleet away and facing insurmountable odds just to die. If he wanted to die and atone, go to Terra. The traitors were headed there and he could have gotten his wish.

 

I like that Corax felt the massacre different from his brothers. Until Weregeld, I was fine with his coping methods. I simply think he went too far in Weregeld.

 

 

count me as one of the people who doesn't mind corax's suicidal tendency, at least in theory.  quite a few of the imperium have come (or will come) to view primarchs as monsters. some of the traitor primarchs have embraced that and it makes sense that at least one of the loyalists would also come to accept it  and with loathing.

 

but like all these things, it comes down to the execution. i haven't read weregeld yet.

 

 

Agreed. 

 

Please reply after you read Weregeld

 

Maybe my Gav bias is just too strong

the gav thorpe bashing is tiring

he may have the character direction, idea and plot outlined, but BL inner circle & IP lords will ultimately give the nod

 

That, I think, is a cop-out. Many authors write awful novels and the publisher still agrees to print. The blame still , ultimately, lies with author.

 

I understand the desire to make characters multi-dimensional and it should be applauded, but as I was reminded once, do not forget that we are reading about larger than life demi-gods. I'm sure many people don't want to read their favorite character going through an emotional roller coaster in this setting. They want to read about them smashing skulls and looking good while doing it.

So now with Corax we have a guy who hit rock bottom. Got saved. Hit rock bottom. Got saved. Hit rock bottom. Rinse and repeat.

He may not drag himself out of this slump he is now. But that won't help anyone, really. Plus it is not multi-dimensional --just two.

 

That said, I like weregeld. But his re-descent into despair shouldn't have happened in this novella. It should be a slow descent that culminates with the "death" of the Emperor and the fruits of misadventure(s) shown before him.

 

 

@hopkins: The BL inner circle & IP lords all deserve credit/blame, but as Gav is the author of the ultimate product, he catches the flack.

if reading different opinions is tiring, there is nothing preventing you from not reading a post or using the ignore function.

Or maybe Gav could release something like the Last Chancers or AoD again, so I could sing his praises.

 

@DarkChaplain: There is a world of difference between sacrificing himself to allow his sons to escape vs ordering his fleet away and facing insurmountable odds just to die. If he wanted to die and atone, go to Terra. The traitors were headed there and he could have gotten his wish.

 

I like that Corax felt the massacre different from his brothers. Until Weregeld, I was fine with his coping methods. I simply think he went too far in Weregeld.

 

 

count me as one of the people who doesn't mind corax's suicidal tendency, at least in theory.  quite a few of the imperium have come (or will come) to view primarchs as monsters. some of the traitor primarchs have embraced that and it makes sense that at least one of the loyalists would also come to accept it  and with loathing.

 

but like all these things, it comes down to the execution. i haven't read weregeld yet.

 

 

Agreed. 

 

Please reply after you read Weregeld

 

Maybe my Gav bias is just too strong

 

 

 

will do. i'll admit that i skipped huge chunks when reading his 30k work, though i quite liked some of his 40k shorts.

 

 

 

the gav thorpe bashing is tiring

he may have the character direction, idea and plot outlined, but BL inner circle & IP lords will ultimately give the nod

 

That, I think, is a cop-out. Many authors write awful novels and the publisher still agrees to print. The blame still , ultimately, lies with author.

 

 

 

 

meh. can't it go both ways? with any team project, the "blame" lies with the team. so it's not entirely editorial and it's not entirely the author. someone up high approves of and believes in thorpe's output.

 

in film, the director of a bomb cops a lot of flak, but so does the studio that commissioned it.

I'm just gonna say that a film is much more of a team effort than a film. Actors, cinematographers, producers...

yeah, agreed which is why i only mentioned the roughly equivalent editorial chain of studio > director. both of whom tend to shoulder blame for poor content rather than say the Dop or best boy.

Сorax in current HH is shown as an emo kid always whining about something. Primarchs DO NOT BEHAVE SO CHILDLY! You can't sympathesize with him.

Right now Vulkan and Corax are two sacrificial lambs in BL stable. Worse characteristics and fluff that were given to this 2, simply can't exist! furious.gif

I'm three quarters through my Deliverance Lost re-read and have to say it is a lot better than I remembered. Clever foreshadowing and character development, and Gav gets the reader suspicious about characters just fine. The labyrinth section was a bit tedious to read, but had to be in there to make the secrets within feel reasonably protected.

 

Corax, throughout, is losing sight of his Legion and is solely going for vengeance. He's so distracted and absorbed in his supposed salvation that he neglects even his closest "friends" within the Legion command. After the first recruits get out of the lab, he even has to remind himself that they're not just guinea pigs and a promise for the future, but actual *people*.

The Primarch is growing increasingly detached post-Isstvan, and loses sight of his sons. Even in the labyrinth section he is ready to throw everyone under his command there away for the prize at the center. On multiple occassions he overlooks hints at the infiltration, up to the point of keeping at least two disguised Alpha Legionaires under his direct command, tasked with the Raptor project.

 

When Branne gets into a squabble with Noriz, he contemplates how easily he can replace Branne and Agapito, two of the original members of his rebel group during the liberation of Lycaeus. Instead of dealing with the problem properly, he keeps pushing it aside until it is almost too late.

Corax, by the time the Alpha Legion strikes, is completely self-absorbed and focused on his plans for vengeance. He needs a quick bandaid to tide himself over and turn his suicidal vengeance plans from earlier (up to his meeting with the Emperor, when offered a better alternative) into something more reasonable and beneficial.

 

His hatred for the traitors consumes him more than even the Legion, even those who were at the Dropsite. They add a skull badge to their pauldrons, but Corax never even figures that out or comments on it - and neither does he realize that there's a divide within the Legion between Branne's command and the Isstvanites. He loses his temper in a lot of situations, and executes the supposed Loyalist Word Bearer out of hand, without trial or reasonable actions beforehand. Instead of using him for information and showing patience (which he is short of on all counts), he uses the opportunity in a petty way to vent his anger.

 

I wouldn't call this behavior "emo" by any means. It is utterly misguided, despite good intentions (and obvious early successes). Corax is simply damaged to the core by the betrayal and loses sight of what counts. Instead of becoming more protective of what he still has, he aims to multiply his assets while gambling all he has on it. He is suffering from the same drive and obsessive behavior as many of his brothers, whether it be Fulgrim's longing for ever-greater stimulation, Lorgar's need for something greater, or Guilliman's need for order and stability.

Isstvan broke his restraints and ability to empathize, and it only spirals further out of control due to the promises for vengeance.

 

With Corax, the book, these things get explored further, though not as a core plotline until Weregeld. He gets confronted with his own errors in every one of them though, and I can't really blame him for snapping. Even in the background, he left for the Eye of Terror supposedly to make direct war against traitors and the warp. He's always been going that way, towards vengeance and abandoning his Legion.

I'm three quarters through my Deliverance Lost re-read and have to say it is a lot better than I remembered. Clever foreshadowing and character development, and Gav gets the reader suspicious about characters just fine. The labyrinth section was a bit tedious to read, but had to be in there to make the secrets within feel reasonably protected.

 

Corax, throughout, is losing sight of his Legion and is solely going for vengeance. He's so distracted and absorbed in his supposed salvation that he neglects even his closest "friends" within the Legion command. After the first recruits get out of the lab, he even has to remind himself that they're not just guinea pigs and a promise for the future, but actual *people*.

The Primarch is growing increasingly detached post-Isstvan, and loses sight of his sons. Even in the labyrinth section he is ready to throw everyone under his command there away for the prize at the center. On multiple occassions he overlooks hints at the infiltration, up to the point of keeping at least two disguised Alpha Legionaires under his direct command, tasked with the Raptor project.

 

When Branne gets into a squabble with Noriz, he contemplates how easily he can replace Branne and Agapito, two of the original members of his rebel group during the liberation of Lycaeus. Instead of dealing with the problem properly, he keeps pushing it aside until it is almost too late.

Corax, by the time the Alpha Legion strikes, is completely self-absorbed and focused on his plans for vengeance. He needs a quick bandaid to tide himself over and turn his suicidal vengeance plans from earlier (up to his meeting with the Emperor, when offered a better alternative) into something more reasonable and beneficial.

 

His hatred for the traitors consumes him more than even the Legion, even those who were at the Dropsite. They add a skull badge to their pauldrons, but Corax never even figures that out or comments on it - and neither does he realize that there's a divide within the Legion between Branne's command and the Isstvanites. He loses his temper in a lot of situations, and executes the supposed Loyalist Word Bearer out of hand, without trial or reasonable actions beforehand. Instead of using him for information and showing patience (which he is short of on all counts), he uses the opportunity in a petty way to vent his anger.

 

I wouldn't call this behavior "emo" by any means. It is utterly misguided, despite good intentions (and obvious early successes). Corax is simply damaged to the core by the betrayal and loses sight of what counts. Instead of becoming more protective of what he still has, he aims to multiply his assets while gambling all he has on it. He is suffering from the same drive and obsessive behavior as many of his brothers, whether it be Fulgrim's longing for ever-greater stimulation, Lorgar's need for something greater, or Guilliman's need for order and stability.

Isstvan broke his restraints and ability to empathize, and it only spirals further out of control due to the promises for vengeance.

 

With Corax, the book, these things get explored further, though not as a core plotline until Weregeld. He gets confronted with his own errors in every one of them though, and I can't really blame him for snapping. Even in the background, he left for the Eye of Terror supposedly to make direct war against traitors and the warp. He's always been going that way, towards vengeance and abandoning his Legion.

    Weregeld tried to do what previous shorts and novellas weren't able to do.  But you can't put that lot of drama into 100 pages if you are not Wraight or Abnett

Quick note:

 

(That is, strictly speaking, not quite true. I have penned two entries for Black Library’s advent releases this year, one of which concludes the story of Librarian Balsar Kurthuri and the other picks up events for Marcus Valeruis as they pertain to his actions after the events of Weregeld. But they are more truthfully extra epilogues that would have got in the way of the proper ending as included in the collected novel.)

http://gavthorpe.co.uk/2016/10/05/corax-authors-notes/
 

 

and here I thought I and my Legion were finally safe...

Don't be silly.

 

It is odd, though. Guess Gav's internalised the DA thing of disliking the Wolves.

 

 

My 30k Legion is the Raven Guard.

Im not committing to the Vlka Fenryka until I see rules

and here I thought I and my Legion were finally safe...

Nope biggrin.png

How far off are those?

Months.

As to Corax, I think by the sounds of the spoiler stuff, weregeld is what I wanted out of...every RG story so far. I don't like what it took to get here, but at least their story is finally done.

Amen to that. Now stop Salamanders and Ultramarines stuff and we are totally good smile.png

Finished the book. The biggest thing as others have pointed out is.......what was the story with that Night Lords Cruiser? Just random and out of place.

 

With this concluding the Raven Guard arc, I'm finally glad. Unfortunately it's more to do with the ending of the series as I'm glad the butchering that the RG have gotten by Gav's writing has come to an end. Weregeld covers some very good story lines and events but they end just as quickly as they start. Seems like he has ADHD or something when he's writing. Starts to broaden a topic of interest before abruptly ending it and moving on.

 

Weregeld could have been a full Novel if he had continued filling out a lot of the plot lines but it wasn't to be.

 

Alas the only thing I really think about now is what the RG arc/series could have been or become if a more capable writer had gotten their hands on it.

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