CaptainBoxman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I've been writing this list with some help from /tg/ whilst the site was down. Ideally I don't want to be taking the whole thing apart and starting again from scratch, but any criticism and advice is appreciated since I'm essentially returning to Warhammer and am fairly unfamiliar with 7th ed. Things I'm least sure about: Dreadnought load out or whether to take one at all and spend the points elsewhere, whether I've got enough armour, whether I should drop something for more artillery Someone also pointed out that I've not got any counters to Deep-striking terminators or flyers (which aren't that common in my meta), but I don't know how I can have a hard counter to every eventuality and it still be a coherent list and fun to play, so I'm not hanging up on details HQ (100) Centurion – Artificer armour, Combi-weapon, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Melta Bombs (100) Troops (785) 20x Tactical Marines (265) >19x Tactical Marines, Vexilla >1x Sarge, Artificer armour and Power fist, Melta Bombs 20x Tactical Marines (265) >19x Tactical Marines, Vexilla, >1x Sarge, Artificer armour and Power weapon, Melta Bombs 20x Tactical Marines (265) >19x Tactical Marines, Vexilla, >1x Sarge, Artificer armour and Power weapon, Melta Bombs Elites (510) 3 x Apothecarion Detachment. Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner (180) 1x Contemptor Cortus Dreadnought, 2x Kheres Assault cannon (165) 3x Legion Rapier Battery (165) >3x Laser Destroyer array Heavy Support (605) Sicaran Battle Tank, Lascannons, Armoured Ceramite (225) Sicaran Battle Tank, Lascannons, Armoured Ceramite (225) Artillery Tank Squadron – 1x Medusa (155) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'll offer some thoughts: Heavy Support: 1 x Medusa will be targeted very quickly. I'd think about swapping if for a Sicaran Venator to provide you an option with dealing with heavy tanks and 'shutting down' super heavies and knights. A scorpius provides a cheap and a highly points efficient unit as an other alternative to the Medusa (or could be swapped for one of the stock Sicarans). Elites. I'd make the Contemptor a Morris so that you do have some dedicated anti-air, you can keep the same load out/ model. If you take a Sicaran Venator I'd think about swapping your laser destroyers for quad mortars - these can target a wider selection of targets. Troops. I think this is the area that you might want to rethink - depending on your meta 60x marines pose little threat to the majority of armies and offer little in the way of mobility. Perhaps splitting one of them into 2 x 10 man units, each in rhinos (partly paid for by dropping the apothecary) and using the points from another unit to pay for a tactical support squad with melta/ plasma or volkite in a rhino, add the apothecary and centurion and CCW to the squad and you'd have a nice little unit. Just a few ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Ok, thanks for the sensible advice! I rewrote from scratch considering your advice and also what I want to get out of it - 20 man tac squads are gone for now, using PotL and have some more Vets in Rhinos, as well as a command squad and an extra Mortis. Didn't add a Venator because of real life cash, and a non-vehicle-heavy-meta. Quad Launchers and Rapiers are present too. Will post tomorrow after work once I've re-written it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionofjudah Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Look forward to seeing your list- the 20 man squads can do ok...depending on the terrain in which youre playing- on a massive cityfight board Id definately load up on big tac squads. Mobility is key though so maybe grabbing a Spartan for a big squad with apothecary, Centurion and command squad to roll in with vet rhinos providing backup. Bolters and Fists are full of win!!! Welcome to the school of painting yellow;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Ok. how's this chaps? 2000 points, Imperial Fists. I've tried to change the main issues, whilst keeping it thematic and adding some different bits. Mobility was missing, now the least mobile element on the board are the Launchers. I think my main issue is lack of bodies now? I know I don't have much in the way of special weapons, but a Support Squad cost way too much for 5 -10 suicidal bodies with 75-150 points of plasma, or should I rethink this? Decided to go with Vindicators over Rapiers for this mobility reason, and a lack of AV14 in my meta stopped me from splurging points on a Venator. Please critique! HQ (100) Legion Centurion, Delegatus, Artificer armour, Power Weapon, Refractor Field ROW – Pride of the Legion Troops (810) (All with Marksmen Legiones Astartes rule) Legion Veteran Tactical Squad,Vexilla (270) 9x Marines, 2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web 1x Sarge with Power Fist and artificer Rhino Legion Veteran Tactical Squad,Vexilla (270) 9x Marines, 2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web 1x Sarge with Power Fist and artificer Rhino Legion Veteran Tactical Squad,Vexilla (270) 9x Marines, 2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web 1x Sarge with Power Fist, artificer Rhino Elites (360) Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180) 2x Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (180) 3x Quad Launchers Heavy Support (730) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (225) Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (225) Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons Vindicator Squadron (280) 2x Vindicator, Armoured Ceramite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I think that's a very solid list for 2000pts! Currently you have no where to put your HQ. You'll need to drop 1 X Vet and therefore 1 X HB, saving you some points - perhaps give the HQ back a power gauntlet (and a shield for rule of cool). You could re-jig this vet squad further to include a few power weapons instead of,the heavy bolter and give them weapon masters as a useful counter attack unit. I'd also play test the vindicators with power of the machine spirit instead of AC - 12" move and fire at different targets will enhance this squad massively! With 30 marines I think you have enough scoring models at 2000pts and more importantly the right tools to destroy the enemies scoring models and tough units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yeah, for the sqaud that goes with the HQ, keep sniper but reinvest the points saved from ditching both heavy bolters and a single marine (or two if you then want to add an apothecary) into a few Combi-Flamers (rending templates) and power weapons to help them out since theyll be a priority target. A good idea would also be to get Sergeants Artificer Armour. And, frankly, you can save more points by dropping the armoured ceramite on the Vindicators and/or Sicarans. Its a nice thing to have but they have low side and rear armour so it doesnt help all that much vs Melta as it would ab Av14 brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Left out the artificer, edited it back in I'll make the changes on the Vet Squad, have a fiddle with AC values. Might squeeze another Vindicator in there if I drop enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 That might be a pretty good use of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 Here's a question: Might it be an idea to drop the Tac squad that goes with Delegatus and use a Command squad instead? I got a third Vindicator in, but the only way I can squeeze enough points in to actually give the Vet tacs anything is to drop them down to 7 marines or so. I also lose extra VPs if that squad dies out because POTL and it has fewer wounds. Maybe it's a better idea to have a command squad with artificer and WS5 that I can give power weapons AND combi-bolters to cheaper for just 2 marines less? EDIT I also noticed I can fit in SIX Vindicators if I drop the Sicarans, 3 with Laser Arrays. No idea whether this is a stupid idea, but it's very Imperial Fist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Six vindicators sounds pretty nasty! I'm not sure if that ultimately is going to be more effective than the vindicator/sicaran combo you already have, but either way you have some serious anti-armour going which is never a bad thing. If you wanted to do something other than tanks, I am a huge proponent of the Leviathan Siege Dreadnought - VERY fluffy choice for the Imperial Fists as well - but it's a chunk of change in RL and may not necessarily fit with the style you're going for. Beyond that, I strongly second K3nn3rs' advice to put a Solarite Power Gauntlet and a Boarding Shield back on your Delegatus. Obviously if you were running a Praetor everyone would tell you to take the Paragon Blade, but for an IF Delegatus I can' t think of a better loadout than Artificer Armour, Solarite Power Gauntlet and Boarding Shield. Doing that will drastically improve his durability and power in a challenge or against heavy-hitters like Terminators or Mechanicum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I like the latest list. And yes a Leviathan would add some muscle to your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Pretty happy with this now. HQ (340) Legion Centurion, Delegatus, Artificer armour, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Boarding Shield (120) ROW – Pride of the Legion Command Squad – 1x Standard Bearer, 4x Chosen (220) 3x Combi-Weapons 5x Power Weapons 1x Rhino Troops (530) (Marksmen Legiones Astartes rule) Legion Veteran Tactical Squad,Vexilla (270) 9x Marines 2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web 1x Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Rhino Legion Veteran Tactical Squad,Vexilla (270) 9x Marines 2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web 1x Sarge with Power Weapon and Artificer Rhino Elites (360) Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnough (180) 2x Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (180) 3x Quad Launchers Heavy Support (770) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (205) Lascannons Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (205) Lascannons Vindicator Squadron (360) 3x Vindicator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 That does look good. I'f you haven't brought the models yet I'd consider leaving the third vindicator so you can add some upgrades to your army. There always a balance to reach with upgrades but I think your army could benefit from: 3 x dozer blades on the rhinos 2 x artificer armour on the vet sergeants A 4th Combi bolter for the command Sqd Shatter shells for the quad mortars Combat shields on the command squad (5++ save and would look cool) That should come to 100pts or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 I always forget to add the artificer! They're already counted in the points Added those upgrades, got 40 points left floating about. Could add Armoured Ceramite back in for the Sicarans, could give the Command squad and the Delegatus Melta for 30 points, couple of Combi Weapons on the Vets, or add some heavy Bolters to the tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBoxman Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Ok, considering swapping the Delegatus and Command Squad for a Terminator Praetor and Terminator CS to drop in and freak the back-line out. Since I had 40 points floating around spare I can do that quite nicely. Load outs on terminators always freak me out since they're high points and low numbers so every choice counts. My main thing is how many Fists, Chain Fists or Power Axes I should be taking, and whether Combi-Weapons are worth the upgrade for the loss of IF BS +1 from a Combi Bolter. Last advice I will ask, and then I can start constructing my models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 It looks good on paper but it's a struggle to make it work tactically. You have the issue of controlling when they will deep strike, you then have the issue of deep strike mishaps (this could be mitigated by taking vox units with the vets), you'll then have the issue of the enemy shooting everything at them the turn after they arrive. I'd leave the terminator command squad for bigger games when you can mount them in a Special-K or spartan assault tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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