Where does it say that 30k can play vs 40k armies

[noigrim]

not having problems a the GW shops but where does it say this, in paper?

[Slips]

Check page 3 of any 30k Books you have:

 

"A Warhammer 40k Supplement"

[noigrim]

Ok, thanks, now I've got a legal argument

[Scribe]

lol come on now thats clearly RAW not RAI, its a different game as far as balance goes.

 

You'll have an argument though, thats for sure. :p

[Jolemai]

Isn't it mentioned in one of the early FAQs?

[Father Mehman]

Yeah, reading the Foreward in the Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List on iBooks, I believe it doesn't actually say you can. It says: "[this book]... for Warhammer 40,000 and the Battles in the Age of Darkness gaming expansion." It's meant to be used with the Age of Darkness gaming expansion - our Horus Heresy goodness.

[Slips]

From the Betrayal FAQ if we really want to get technical about it: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_V2.pdf

 

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

 

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

 

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing within their own sphere.) In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points or greater.

 

Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.

 

[Father Mehman]

So it's a noncommittal answer or, at best, a "we wouldn't do it in a tournament" answer?

 

Personally, I'd do what the second Designer Note says in the above quote and house-rule a bunch.

 

You know, this reminds me of a story I'd forgotten. So, this gentleman in my old gaming group (how I miss it) asked me to play a game. We agreed on points and what-not before the match and told each other the armies we'd be bringing. I brought 40k Iron Hands and an Imperial Knight Paladin and he brought 30k Salamanders. I had never won a game of Kill Each Other that massively before. My Knight was destroyed in close combat during the first turn but his death took out some kind of shenanigans competitive players use when they fight each other. Listen, I'm a fluffy player with a non-synchronized army and his was WAAC if that tells you anything.

 

To this day I don't know if that means 30k armies are "underpowered" vs their 40k counterparts, I was lucky, his confidence defeated him, etc.

[Slips]

The thing is, if we go with WAAC 30k vs WAAC 40k, the lack of 2++ Rerollable Invisible Night-Unkillable-To-The-Nth-Degree deathstars means that 30k cant even come close to competing in terms of potential shenanigans.

 

So, as it stands, 100% Perfectly Legal to do 30k vs 40k since its made for the system. However, if you want it to be a fair fight, some prior discussion is necessary.

[Ishagu]

40k Top Tier armies are far, far stronger than anything from the HH range.

 

If you're worried about balance, the one at a disadvantage in a competitive environment is the one playing 30k!

[Terminus]

I would say weak 40K armies like Orks and Tyranids would be considered solid in 30K.

 

Neurons/Eldar/Marines could bring random stuff and still be advantaged. And that's before we talk about formations, in which case they roflstomp.

[Charlo]

Both use the AoD Force Org and it's usually fine :)

[IronDrake28]

Most of the people I play with think 30k armies are OP, so I just let them use whatever 40k shenanigans they like, otherwise I wouldn't even get to play my UM and AL as much. :(

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Most 40k competitive armies are built around 1850 points which 30k cannot compete at that lower level.

 

It can be fun to play against 40k armies (right people).

[Flint13]

Most of the people I play with think 30k armies are OP, so I just let them use whatever 40k shenanigans they like, otherwise I wouldn't even get to play my UM and AL as much. :(

I'd ask them exactly how they came to that conclusion. Many times "legions are OP" really translates to "I played them once and haven't memorized their rules yet, this makes me uncomfortable."

 

But, then again, to this day you'll still run across folks who will argue that FW is a different company than GW or that legion lists are unbalanced compared to the razor sharp chess game that is 40k.

 

It's always possible to find these hilarious individuals, like some sort of wacky time capsule to the late 90s or early 00s. The neckbeard that time forgot...

 

However, I've had great games against opponents playing 40k armies like Orks, Dark Eldar + Harlequins, and Chaos Space marines. Just have them build a list with the AoD force org chart and it weeds out like 75% of potential issues right there. Mostly it comes down to how pleasant the peeps you're playing with are.

[Ishagu]

I've had no one refuse a game against my 30k Ultras.

 

If you walk away from a game against a fully painted, lovingly collected WYSIWYG army it's your loss!

[IronDrake28]

The couple other people who played 30k in my club before me tend to use the cheesier selection of units; Sicarans, Primarch deathstars, leviathans, a typhon etc. So I think they may have been part of the cause... still nice people though.

[Ishagu]

The couple other people who played 30k in my club before me tend to use the cheesier selection of units; Sicarans, Primarch deathstars, leviathans, a typhon etc. So I think they may have been part of the cause... still nice people though.

That's good, means they'll put up a fight!

[olsol]

Isn't there a thing on 1d4chan taking about taking 30k stuff in 40k:

 

TL;DR. The above section rules do not apply, carry on as normal for army construction as you would any normal 40k codex.

This means use of CADs, multiple detachments, option for unbound, "everything scores" and so on, but no additional VPs for LoW kills or the alternate ways to use a LoW slot etc.

Implacable Advance confers Objective Secured.

[ForLogarForThePantheon]

Apologies - posted in the wrong place - please delete