Arkangilos Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I believe all the Custodes were immortal, just like the Primarchs. Primarchs>Custodes>Astartes, in terms of genetic enhancement and abilities. Valdor being killed...maybe. I guess when we finally get to the Seige of Terra (I'm predicting 2017-18) we'll see. Is there a source for that, though? Or is it just an assumption? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4521462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I believe all the Custodes were immortal, just like the Primarchs. Primarchs>Custodes>Astartes, in terms of genetic enhancement and abilities. Valdor being killed...maybe. I guess when we finally get to the Seige of Terra (I'm predicting 2017-18) we'll see. Is there a source for that, though? Or is it just an assumption? For the Custodes? In multiple HH books they are regarded as the in-between step of genetic upgrades (more individualnprojects rather than mass produced like Astartes). With the first Astartes being effectively immortal, also repeatedly claimed in the novels, the Custodes would definitely be immortal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4521670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Even though it is repeated in the novels, it isn't supported by the novels (or fluff) that they are immortal, given it's only been 200 years, and some of them are *already starting to age and get old*. So I mean, I guess at this point I still wouldn't see them as immortal, personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4521689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm pretty sure it's one of those weird myths that's popped up over the years. Never seen, read or heard of a source. It was in a dueling cage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4521699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The Custodes may well be functionally immortal (or really the proper term would be ageless since they are definitely murderable). We have a Blood Angel over 1000 years old and also a Space Wolf who is showing his age after a handful of centuries. GW/FW/BL have never been super consistent on this point. I would say they are closer to Marines than they are to Primarchs, but it does take Gal Vorbak to kill them in the one real instance we've seen them fight. I'm pretty sure it's one of those weird myths that's popped up over the years. Never seen, read or heard of a source. ^This. No one has ever been able to even name a publication where this supposed story appeared. This never happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Blood Angels are specifically said to be the *exception* to aging, though, so I don't feel like they can be used as an example of how others might be functionally immortal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Bjorn was housed in a dreadnaught and kept offline most of the time, hence his longevity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I thought the first couple of HH novels said that Astartes were functionally immortal, something which has been contradicted since by the Beast Arises series saying they would only live measured in centuries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 It is possible he dies during the siege, such a well known characters death will appear in a novel. Perhaps he still lives but is on for the Companions. Those Custodians who permanently guard the Emperfor after his internment on the throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Tbh I could see him topping himself if he did survive the siege anyway - he had one job, and he failed, miserably. As for who Horus kills, I think it being a regular human (albeit immortal) would have far greater impact on the Emperor. I mean You'd have Horus basically going out of his way to murder someone who could pose no threat to him whatsoever. With Valdor, it's a certainty he'd attack and then Horus would at least have some sort of justification for gutting him. But a normal man, who happened to turn up there with the trusty athame or whatever it is from Unmarked? Yeah can't see the Emperor ignoring that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Personally I don't see any Custodes committing suicide. All 10,000 of them failed and should have ended their lives if we go down that line of thinking. Ollanus Pious will be the one to change the Emperors mind.. I belive Ollanus story is moving him to try to be there at the final battle. I don't understand how seeing Sanguinius dead did not convince the Emperor that Horus was beyond redemption. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I thought the first couple of HH novels said that Astartes were functionally immortal, something which has been contradicted since by the Beast Arises series saying they would only live measured in centuries.They did, but that was before they were older than 200 years. So it's no so much it was contradicted as it was that the scientists were wrong with their calculation. Think of it like this: you are the first human. No one is older than you, no one has died of old age yet. You live to be 30, as you age you have gotten stronger, and so far you have only gone up in health and ability. Would you think you would get old? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarus1138 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I'm pretty sure it's one of those weird myths that's popped up over the years. Never seen, read or heard of a source. It was in a dueling cage. Like others have mentioned, I've seen people talk about this but none have ever been able to cite a source. Where was this described? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 That's what I was told and that Nemesis might allude to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 That's what I was told and that Nemesis might allude to it. Thats all well and good but what we're getting at is that theres no actual Page/Book Reference anywhere pointing to that specific event ever having occurred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4522939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 That's the most I could find and I did quite a bit of e-search. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Regarding the old Ollanius Pius, whenever I think of him, I picture him waking up in the afterlife in front of the Emperor and surrounded by all the loyalists who died in the war, be they mortals, space marines or even primarchs, and as he starts bowing to the Emperor, He interrupts him with "you bow to no one." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Ollanius was not fond of the Emperor, not sure why he would be bowing to him, afterlife or otherwise. More like point to all the dead people and go "so much for all your grand plans, buster!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 It was his honor to die for the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Retcons have happened before, so I just think we'll have to wait and see who steps between Horus and the Emperor. But I think we can list the possibilities. 1. Valdor. Starting with him because he IS the topic of this thread, the reasons behind this have already been stated by other people, so I'm going to move on. 2. Ollanius. Do I have to explain this one? 3. Sanguinius. Picture the following: The Emperor walks into the inner sanctum of the Vengeful Spirit, just in time to see Horus standing silently over the corpse Sanguinius, filled with fury the Emperor attacks Horus, but cannot bring himself to kill his son, so is slowly overpowered by Horus until he deals a mortal blow. Lying broken and defeated, Horus slowly walks over to his dying father, and as he brings down Worldbreaker to finish him suddenly Sanguinius jumps/flies/limps/crawls in his way. Horus hadn't actually finished Sanguinius off, he had only dealt a mortal blow much like the one he just dealt his father. The Emperor abandons any thought that Horus could redeem himself or what-have-you. Blah-Blah-Blah-Blah. 4? Loken, or Aximand. Our story began with the Mournival, they should be there for the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 For all we know Valdor could be Alpharius. Nah, we all know the Emperor is Alpharius. It's pretty obvious, once you think of it. :P (Can't get it outta your head now, can ye? ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 No Omegon is the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Hm. I thought Omegon was Malcador..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 No no no, Omegon is Guilliman, think about it. Why else would the Ultramarines' symbol be an inverted >Omega< ? :O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4523996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 AL so sneaky ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326480-constantin-valdor-is-dead-theory/page/2/#findComment-4524036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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