Legacy Of Kain Theme Army.

[BrightStarNova]

My current army is Imperial Templar, which is a descendant of Imperial Fists.

 

I was considering a Legacy Of Kain Theme as an army.

 

I'm not sure how to fit that into 40K aside from maybe Blood Angels.

 

But not all Vampire theme Space Marines are descended from them.

 

I did make an interesting paint scheme based on Kain's Blood Omen 1 Armor.

 

Merely for conversation as well as ideas.

 

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[Jolemai]

What era of the Legacy of Kain series would you be basing this on? If it was the Soul Reaver era, then Daemons might be the best choice...

 

Also, what Characters would you bring to life bar Kain?

[BrightStarNova]

Well I sort of like Blood Omen 2 most, but  in Blood Omen 1 Kain actually wore armor. In the marine painter I actually made a paint scheme that matched His Armor. But the armor is more of a side detail.  I wouldn't use any of the characters from the series, but would create my own in that sort of theme.

 

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[Jolemai]

It's been yonks since I played them but I gather you could make the line troopers match the armour of the guards/etc in those games? Also perhaps the Seraphim (Soul Reaver 2) could get a nod as a Command Squad/Honour Guard?

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Mobius could make an appearance as an Inquisitorial Henchman/Navigator if you went down that route ;)

[BrightStarNova]

I actually prefer the Vampires. The Sarafan are the Hylden and their followers. The Dark Angels already fit the Sarafan theme perfectly. Even the inner secrets about the Hylden masters is perfect for them. I like the Vampires, but don't necessarily want to build a Blood Angels army. More like an army with a Vampire theme is what I was considering. I suppose painting them to match Kain's Armor, and the Names, Banners, and Squads organized in a certain way might fit. But Not sure. I mean like, The Blood Angels used to be way more Vampire themed in the 80's and 90's than they are these days. But they do have some really cool tactical squad decorations and iconography. But Rogal is my favorite of the Primarchs that are Loyalist.

 

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[BrightStarNova]

I assume that would be plausible. Since the majority of the Vampire theme of the Blood Angels centers around ritual. Other Space Marines also drink the Blood of their foes as well. So in theory the other chapters not from that group could also be Vampires. Since most of that is based on their habits and rituals.  Merely an ideas. If they were to go with close combat and be of an Imperial Fist gene seed for example, they could use Templar Rules. But in the Lore replace zealotry for Blood Lust On That. *

[BrightStarNova]

Advice, Thoughts, Questions, Comments, Opinions?

 

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[BrightStarNova]

Guess nobody liked the topic. *

[Kelborn]

Sorry, mate.

It's been years since I've played Soulreaver.

 

Can comment on your idea when I'm more familiar with the setting.

[BrightStarNova]

Basically the idea would be a Vampire themed chapter that was actually not descended from the Blood Angels. They might have armor painted in the scheme similar to how Kain's original iron armor was. They might also have Nosgothic Blood Script for the letters in their squads and writing in their heraldry. The main reason people associate the Blood Angels with Vampires is due to many of their habits and rituals. It might not be so far fetched for another chapter to adopt similar vampiric practices into their traditions and rituals.

 

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[Arkangilos]

Any particular reason you won't want Blood Angel geneseed? They already even have an addiction to blood.

[BrightStarNova]

I'd have to buy a new codex. It's more about the story and lore than the rules. I also find that the Imperial Fists are one of my top favorite loyalist legions.

 

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[Arkangilos]

You don't have to use the BA codex for all of their successors. The only think you'd need to do is say you don't keep the Death Company.

[Kelborn]

Ok, now I'm able to give some feedback.

 

Liking your idea.

So you want to turn the DA into the Sarafan in your chapters fluff, right? That means that you'll need a feud or something like that between them and your chapter. I would recommend to use a successor chapter of the DA. The original chapter would be a bit over the top, use a relatively unknown successor or create your own to fit your needs.

Doesn't have to be a full article. Just those bits you require.

 

Concerning heritage. You can use every legion.

Traitor heritage: go the blackshields path

Blood Angel heritage: would fit the overall theme but it would be flat and like "oh, a BA vampire chapter...how usual"

Another Legion: The most important thing here would be their homeworld. On it, the chapters culture has it's origins. On it, the chapter adepts to local way of waging war, rituals and so on. We got an UM successor deriving from a world of night and cannibalis and they are pretty badass. So why not using the Fists on a Transylvania themed planet. Hec, you could also name their CM Vlad the Impaler. ^^ as long as you got a reasonable and well thought homeworld, the rest becomes a self runner. Hope that might help you.

 

I'm curious of what you will do with them. :)

[BrightStarNova]

Well the DIY Chapter I was considering would be the Vampires. I like the Dark Angels but never fully trusted them. So in terms of lore that could be a sort of wariness when dealing with them. Imperial Fists would be the original Chapter since they are my favorite from the loyalists. Blood Angels might be cool. But that would require buying another codex for 50$ after I already recently bought the Imperial Fist Rules.

 

I don't know who the dark shields are.

 

Their homeworld would be sort of like the Holy Roman Empire, but more dark and also mysterious.

 

One idea is that they could secretly recruit the strongest children and warrior in the night. But that wouldn't fit with them being honorable So maybe a sort of tribal worship of them.

 

So far I mostly have the armor design and blood script as an idea for language and banners.

 

The armor would try to match Kain's old Iron Armor. It could be either the dark or silver version.

 

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[Bjorn Firewalker]

Guess nobody liked the topic. *

I've yet to play a 'Legacy of Kain' game, and the last one was published in 2003. I'm afraid the series is too obscure for most people. At least 'BloodRayne' has a film adaptation that's also bait for anyone who wants to do a 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' parody.

[Kelborn]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blackshield

 

Read it, it is a perfect way of creating a loyal chapter from a traitor legion or the other way around. ;)

 

So what I ibtended to say was that the DA chapter could try to work against your vampire chapter. Possibly involving a Fallen who was a very important character of your chapters history or some other shenanigans leading to an open feud between those two chapters.

 

As I said, Stick with the Fists. You can use them as well for a vampire themed chapter. We also had a Viking themed chapter with Fists origin in here.

 

Getting potential candidates in the night doesn't mean that they can't be honorable.

How about a world in constant conflict. There are kingdoms of the holy church which venerates the Emperor, savage tribes and other kingdoms of brutal despots.

In this constant war against each other, the chapter recruits from the best warriors of each factions, acting like a secret, mysterious faction. To hold up the status quo in order to constantly getting the best recruits, their neophytes are tasked to hunt down certain key persons. Only when they had drunk the blood of their victims, they are excepted.

In doing so, they keep their own world in constant war, while fighting for the greater peace for the Imperium. Quite hypocritic.

 

The act of drinking blood can also be an ancient ritual on their homeworld. The victors often drank the blood of their defeated foes to become more powerful. Only the Church tries to forbid this. Guess how had lost the most members to the initiates of the chapter. ;)

 

Got a mixture of Legacy of Kain and Hellsing in my mind when thinking about your chapter.

[BrightStarNova]

Legacy Of Kain is the best series about Vampires there ever was, is, and /or will be. That is fact. You can go to YouTube and check the story clips and compilations clips of Legacy Of Kain.  *

[BrightStarNova]

Well they would probably not like the Dark Angels too much as they are basically identical to the Sarafan other than the fact that Dark Angels are Space Marines.

 

They would probably more likely to renegade rather than Traitor since Kain is honorable. Also, Kain wouldn't follow a master. There is a quote from Blood Omen 2 that could explain that. They could be renegade or loyalist. But they wouldn't venerate the emperor as much as the others. But Kain  said he was no errand boy , but could follow orders when it suited Him.  Space marines also answer only to The Emperor. Kain in Blood Omen 1 said that His allegiance was with the King Of Willendorf. So The Emperor could be their version of a King. Rough Draft Ideas.

 

The world would be a feudal world.  But it could also be a night world, or some other kind in addition. There would be monsters lurking in the wilderness beyond city walls they could try to fight.

 

The paint scheme I can try to put a link in twitter to that idea. Went through 4 different ideas. Currently they are Imperial Templar which are Fists but darker yellow with red  badges. I forgot what I wanted to mention in addition to that. But the marine painter resource here seems to be good in theory. In application that seems so so.

 

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[NightrawenII]

Hec, you could also name their CM Vlad the Impaler.

One advice: Don't do that.

 

I don't know who the dark shields are.

 

Their homeworld would be sort of like the Holy Roman Empire, but more dark and also mysterious.

 

One idea is that they could secretly recruit the strongest children and warrior in the night. But that wouldn't fit with them being honorable So maybe a sort of tribal worship of them.

 

The armor would try to match Kain's old Iron Armor. It could be either the dark or silver version.

Blackshields are generaly marines, who either have renounced their allegiance to Chapter/Legion or were cast out from their Chapter/Legion for whatever reason.

 

Mysterious can be wood or mountain, I fail to see how can be government mysterious.

 

World of perpetual night or the people doesn't live on surface (for the irony of it, because it's too bright).

 

You know, there is online SM painter....

 

edit:

Legacy Of Kain is the best series about Vampires there ever was, is, and /or will be. That is fact. You can go to YouTube and check the story clips and compilations clips of Legacy Of Kain.  *

That's matter of conjecture... Vampire: The Masquerade.

 

 

~ NightrawenII

[BrightStarNova]

Dracula wouldn't fit the theme even if Vlad was a Vampire.

 

A government can be dark and mysterious quite easily, but I'm going to leave that topic alone.

 

It might be a night world or more towards twilight where it's dark but also not too dark.

 

I know there are space marine painters. But Bolter & ChainSword doesn't let me paste for some reason.

 

Each person is entitled to their opinion, but no series of Vampires is as good as Legacy Of Kain. Being more famous and popular doesn't make a series better. Legacy Of Kain stopped making sequels after the creators had infighting within the company. But if you like a different series more that's fine. That's your opinion.

 

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[Doctor Perils]

Okay, I have no idea what Legacy of Kain is. You may consider it the best vampire series, but I'm not going out of my way to find out what it is - Vampires just don't interest me enough.

 

I also suspect that I am not the only one in this case: as such, you should be able to explain your ideas in stand alone from the series.

 

First question: are these ideas going to be added to your Imperial Templar army, or are they a stand alone project?

Next question: what will this project have that separates it from other "Vampire Marines" (be they TwiGlitter Blood Angels or Grim Flesh Eaters) and from LoK itself? Just saying "LoK in space" isn't enough: what's the motivation in the setting?

Also: What does your colour scheme look like in the end? I know you can't paste, but you can use words instead to describe (and not just compare)

To be honnest, I think that "vampire marines" that aren't Blood Angels is a good idea - it's a new twist on an old theme :) You say that you would like to use "Vampiric Rituals". What would those entail exactly? Is it just part of their induction process? Is it a whole part of their culture and fighting style? Is it a secret nature of their chapter's ruling council?

 

Just a note - steer clear of the Heretic legion geneseed path: it's more trouble then it's worth. If needs be, the chapter can even be of "unknown ascendence". Stating that the chapter is of heretic geneseed just causes trouble both in universe (from the Inquisition etc.) and out (from fluff Nazis like me :evil:). That's the kind of trouble which rapidly becomes the whole theme of the chapter, rather then the Vampire theme you wish to promote.

 

So, what is the homeworld's society like? You said that they were close to the Holy Roman Empire: does that mean a multitude of semi-independent states, that all vote for a planetary feudal governor? What would their relation be like towards the chapter? How would the Eternal Twilight affect them? The idea of including writing into their iconography sounds cool: does this stem from a particular facet of the homeworld's beliefs?

 

 

 

 

Now, I've also got some general C&C for how you post your ideas. I'm going to be a bit blunt, and I hope you don't take it the wrong way: I really don't want to hurt your feelings, I just want to help you have a better experience when posting. Also, it seems like you're a true son of Dorn, so I think you have thick enough skin to not take it personnally ;)

• If you select some of the ideas for your chapter out of the discussion, do a quick edit to the first post and add them in: it'll help new people to know straight from the word go what you are talking about.
• Please, use the edit button when you post twice in quick succession - it is far easier on the eyes and double posting is considered bad form. Posting twice with longer intervals is okay, but ten minutes is too short.
• Please, stop trying to guilt people into replying by saying stuff like "I guess nobody likes my idea" - especially when it's only been a day. It feels manipulative and doesn't actually help: if people actually don't like your idea, they won't tell you any more after that then before. If people do, and it turns out that they just hadn't seen your post, or didn't think your ideas were fleshed out enough to comment on them, then they'll be less likely to reply if they see you trying to manipulate them. In the end, guilting somebody into C&Cing is counterproductive.
• Please, try and give a few more hints as to any ideas you may already have rather then (paraphrasing): "I want to do Vampire Marines descending from Dorn. Thoughts?" If you have more ideas around the original concept (which you generally do it seems) just post them up at the same time. If you don't, ask for a bit of help, if possible in the Liber Surgery thread. If you say that you have a core idea but don't know how to flesh it out and ask for help, it's more polite then "Merely conversation and ideas" --- I know this is a rough draught, but still :)
• Please, make an effort to construct full sentences, and/or stop putting full stops in the middle of these fully constructed sentences. I've seen you do both. Now, I can understand if you have trouble writting english, or simply writting on forums (it is a strange medium after all) - however, it is better practice in general to make the effort to use correct grammar and punctuation, and (perhaps more importantly) the Bolter and Chainsword forums impose the "No chat or "leet" speak" policy - I'm not asking for perfect by any means (I'm not even asking anything at all, just making a remark); however, if it is possible, more attention to this detail would be greatly appreciated - no one will thank you for it, but it is appreciated.
• Please, when somebody posts a comment, a criticism or simply a reply, don't just ignore it or brush it off - especially when somebody with such regard as Nightrawen among the LiberAstartes subforum asks a pertinent question. (I'm not saying that you do this as a matter of course, but sometimes it just sticks out oddly)
• Also, I'm perfectly aware that I do all of these sometimes (probably more then I realise) - this is a case of "Do as I say if you wish, not as I do" :P

[BrightStarNova]

They are an idea for a project on the side to experiment with. The Imperial Templars use Imperial Fist rules. The experimental unknown chapter might try using Templar rules to represent furious blood lust. The Legacy Of Kain Vampires aren't berserkers like the Blood Angels. I might also try Raven Guard rules as those in the series often like to use stealth attacks even though they can engage with the best in close combat.

 

Well Legacy Of Kain has an alphabet based on Futhark called Blood Script. They also have a Vampire Alphabet that consists of curvy and circular runes. The culture is heavily influenced by knights and honor, as well as stealth and intelligence. The majority of the towns have Germanic names and themes and depending on the sequel, different landscapes. Such as Blood Omen 1 is more traditional middle ages, but Blood Omen 2 is similar but with hints of industrial revolution, slums and alleyways.

 

They prefer to feed using blood more than most other liquids or foods. The rituals are often about the protecting of certain relics, such as a Heart of leader or a Skeleton, a Weapon or Armor.

 

I don't use the heretic gene seed path for loyalists. The other way around makes sense but that way doesn't.

 

Germanic and somewhere between the middle ages and industrial revolution. Various nations or provinces that either act peacefully or war with each other.

 

There are several lords of different nations and provinces..

 

I haven't decided about the relationship between the chapter and the people. Some ideas were somewhere between reverence and fear, or not really knowing of their existence that much.

 

The twilight world would make the people rather pale.

 

I wasn't trying to guild anybody. People at the local store I've been visiting recently tend to be really rude and make insulting comments about whatever ideas and thoughts I had  and about my army but some of the people were polite.

 

I meant no offense at all and I apologize in case I have been bothering any of you at all in any way at all.

 

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[Doctor Perils]

Ah, now I get a better picture :)

Indeed, a chapter that has a strong "ancestor cult" (or leader cult) that creates relics out of dead leaders could be interesting - especially if they are so zealous in this that they don't even allow their leaders to be interred in Dreadnoughts

A semi-steampunk medieval/renaissance or modern era could be interesting indeed - quite different to most well known homeworlds, which are often feudal or barbaric.

So would the majority of people live in the dark, with only nobles able to afford lighting... or else the exact opposite: normal people have lighting, but Nobles use "shadow projectors" that cast a pall of darkness around them, as they do not like the peasants gazing on their features (this could be especially important if the nobility are in fact a sanctioned abhuman vampire type that rule over simple humans)? Or anything else of that order? (bear in mind that first example is Nostramo :P)

I wasn't trying to guild anybody. People at the local store I've been visiting recently tend to be really rude and make insulting comments about whatever ideas and thoughts I had and about my army but some of the people were polite.

I meant no offense at all and I apologize in case I have been bothering any of you at all in any way at all.

No need to apologize :): I was probably a bit more blunt then I needed to be (sorry ), but it is sometimes best to be aware of how one can come across, even if that is not the intended meaning.

Remember: you do have good ideas! If some people at your club don't want to listen to the fluff you've come up with because they have formed a too rigid form of fluff in their heads, just ignore what they have to say about it: I'm sure you can still all have a good time together when it comes to the gaming and painting side, just let that part of the hobby slide. They're the ones losing out on it, not you :)

[BrightStarNova]

Hm. Actually, the world itself is probably not a night world but is more like a blotted sky filled with plumes from burning materials in order to block the sun. Not everywhere ,but in areas near the Chapter. That might be good as that could lead to rumors about Vampirism.

 

They have utilities like a futuristic world would have, but in a medieval style such as a Toilet might be a toilet , but around the toilet would have bricks for medieval aesthetics.

 

Not sure of a name for them might be the "Blood Fists" But that probably seems cliché. Blood Bats or Blood Vampire might be good but not sure. Blood Templar might be ok. Don't know.

 

 

 

 

I'm worried about what's happening with 40K since all the Primarchs seem to be coming back and I would dread an Age Of Sigmar version of 40K. I like it where you can field a Company of Space Marines or a Horde of guys if you want. Not some more complicated version of Monopoly.