Loyalist Night Lords?

[Hyaenidae]

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fel_Zharost

 

Read Child of Night, and learn of the ways of the Old VIII. Learn of the scales, of the judgment passed, of Justice Blinded. Learn of disciplie and balance, and see what the VIII should have been, who they were crafted to be since birth. They were truth, unclouded. They were mercy, so kind in it's cutting edge. They were just, in ways their kin and kith could never be.

 

Curze had sight, and it blinded him. His Terran sons, the oldest of them, blinded themselves, so that they could see.

Stop you right there Heathens. Mostly because we don't know Fel Zharost's loyalties. I certainly agree that in the very least, if he survives being imprisoned as part of the Crusader Host, then he will definitely break with the VIII Legion. But, as I quoted myself earlier in the thread, personally I feel it is unclear if he will remain a Loyalist or become a Blackshield. My opinion leans towards the latter over the former.

 

 

In fairness, brother, I point to the story not to point to Fel, but to the old Legion ways he remembers and speaks of. It's possibly the closest look we've had at the oldest sections of the VIII history, though I do not dispute that it is coloured by the character who speaks of it. 

 

It could've been Barney the friendly Dinosaur in Midnight Clad, for all I care. Getting to peek at the Unification Wars through the eyes of an VIII Legionnaire was nearly ecstasy.

 

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fel_Zharost

 

Read Child of Night, and learn of the ways of the Old VIII. Learn of the scales, of the judgment passed, of Justice Blinded. Learn of disciplie and balance, and see what the VIII should have been, who they were crafted to be since birth. They were truth, unclouded. They were mercy, so kind in it's cutting edge. They were just, in ways their kin and kith could never be.

 

Curze had sight, and it blinded him. His Terran sons, the oldest of them, blinded themselves, so that they could see.

 

*Loud sweating.*

 

Heathens, sir, I've been researching this topic for a year for a very specific project and I literally have no idea what most of that means. Going to re-read Child of Night now. 

 

I'm still unsure by what you mean about "blinding themselves?" Are you saying you perceive that the they willfully ignored the legion's descent into cruelty? If so, do you think any raised objections? 

 

 

They are, in my opinion, the personification of the concept of 'Justice is Blind', in those ancient times. I think the Emperor chose to recruit the VIII from the old hive-sinks wasn't because he figured they would be naturally brutal (though that was a factor, surely), but because they would be naturally truthful. The people of the Old Sinks of Terra were human beings stripped down to the barest scraps of survival, absolutely pure. It was their drive, their lives. It made brutal honesty a part of their collective being, an ability to look at every strength and flaw inside themselves, and gave them great skill in detecting the same in others. The Emperor gave them a purpose to apply it to. Justice, Judgment, and Punishment.  You can hear it in how Fel talks about the past to the Blackshield/Errant, how he should know who he executes, etc. 

 

They are honest in their violence, they tell you why they came. Why you are judged. Why you are screaming. And they always see the sentence through to the end.

 

Blind Justice.

[Son of Carnelian]

That's incredibly enlightening. I always learn something when you comment. Taking notes now to add to my ever-expanding reference document later. 

[Hyaenidae]

Pfft, I ramble incessantly. I'm just glad somebody can piece something cool outta my word-vomit, lol.

[TRIBUN]

You are asking if there are loyal NL. I think some NL would be loyal to the empire and humanity, but not to big E, because they are all a cynical pack of self rightous batmen without the guiding mind of Alfred.

[calgar101]

I would say a small Terran minority could remain loyal to the Emperor if they managed to survive their Nostramon brothers. I can see a larger portion just going rogue and fighting both sides.

[Hyaenidae]

@TRIBUN: That'd be cool as hell too, to be honest. Wait, would that make them Loyalishs?

[TRIBUN]

Yes, because of their self centric way of live I think, NL would suit perfect as black shilds, so neither loyal or traitor.

[Kelborn]

By only following this thread I got a completely different and new way of seeing them. Had never thought about them and the blind justice image.

 

Thanks, guys. Seriously.

 

Now I'm enjoying even more rereading the NL trilogy. :D

[Terminus]

Night Lords operated in retribution and predation fleets, having a company separate from the rest is easy to justify.

 

Whenever I get around to my Night Lords, they will be the pale children of Terra's prisons, and I'll play them as early Crusade/Loyalist Batmans.

[DuskRaider]

I think the idea of "Loyalist" or "Traitor" Night Lords is a bit of a misnomer... they never really fully committed to siding with Horus, in my opinion, and had gone rogue at least a decade before the events of Isstvan. Curze didn't want to bow to either Horus or the Emperor, but he used the Heresy to his advantage to try and snuff out the side which had more of a reason to censure (or actually assassinate) him and his Legion. Sure, there are some Legionnaires that would have chosen to remain by the Emperor's side... but I can't see it being a very large crowd. Even those recruited from Terra were prisoners or offspring of prisoners, held captive in what is more or less a crypt city under Albia. Those on Nostramo looked to Curze as a savior and swore undying loyalty to their primogenitor. As the Crusade waged on, newer recruits were the filth of the underworld, their loyalty only to themselves. 

 

So I'd say the Legion was mainly out for itself and it's own benefit. No real Loyalists or Traitors in the way that say... Sons of Horus were considered.

[Son of Carnelian]

Even those recruited from Terra were prisoners or offspring of prisoners, held captive in what is more or less a crypt city under Albia.

Actually, that brings up another interesting question. Are the Terran Night Lords only drawn from Albia? Or were there other prison sinks across Terra? Could a Space Marine training for another legion get transferred to the Eighth, as seen in Scars?

[Soldier of Dorn]

 

Even those recruited from Terra were prisoners or offspring of prisoners, held captive in what is more or less a crypt city under Albia.

Actually, that brings up another interesting question. Are the Terran Night Lords only drawn from Albia? Or were there other prison sinks across Terra? Could a Space Marine training for another legion get transferred to the Eighth, as seen in Scars?

 

 

Can't see why not? Doubt it would be common, though. But definitely possible.

[Hyaenidae]

I'd imagine so. Gene-mutation was bad in the low levels, so I could imagine the Emps first casting a very large net for recruits.

[Kol Saresk]

@Hyaenidae/Heathens: Fair enough and I absolutely agree. Still remember our discussions about Tony Poe Night Lords. :P

[Hyaenidae]

I'm outta likes (I've missed a lot of awesome WIP threads since my hiatus), but..... +LIKE+.

 

And for feth's sake, just Hyena, lol.

[Kol Saresk]

It's been so long that I can't remember lol. But definitely noted for future reference.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I don't remember where I read it, but in one of the FW books it mentioned that additional troops were drawn from Albia (Dusk Raiders) to swell the ranks of the VIII because there weren't enough from the sinks to make a whole Legion.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't remember where I read it, but in one of the FW books it mentioned that additional troops were drawn from Albia (Dusk Raiders) to swell the ranks of the VIII because there weren't enough from the sinks to make a whole Legion.

That was the first book. In the Dusk Raiders/Death Guard blurb, it said that Albia supplied Terran troops to VIII, X, and XIV Legions with the majority going to the XIV.

 

Since then, it's been assumed the prison sink was beneath Albia, especially after Child of Night which stated the one Zharost came from was under Albia IIRC.

[Son of Carnelian]

 

I don't remember where I read it, but in one of the FW books it mentioned that additional troops were drawn from Albia (Dusk Raiders) to swell the ranks of the VIII because there weren't enough from the sinks to make a whole Legion.

That was the first book. In the Dusk Raiders/Death Guard blurb, it said that Albia supplied Terran troops to VIII, X, and XIV Legions with the majority going to the XIV.

 

Since then, it's been assumed the prison sink was beneath Albia, especially after Child of Night which stated the one Zharost came from was under Albia IIRC.

 

I was under the impression that the prison sinks stretched beneath large swathes of Terra, not just in certain locations. A designated "criminal underworld," if you will. Am I off base there too? 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

I don't remember where I read it, but in one of the FW books it mentioned that additional troops were drawn from Albia (Dusk Raiders) to swell the ranks of the VIII because there weren't enough from the sinks to make a whole Legion.

That was the first book. In the Dusk Raiders/Death Guard blurb, it said that Albia supplied Terran troops to VIII, X, and XIV Legions with the majority going to the XIV.

 

Since then, it's been assumed the prison sink was beneath Albia, especially after Child of Night which stated the one Zharost came from was under Albia IIRC.

I was under the impression that the prison sinks stretched beneath large swathes of Terra, not just in certain locations. A designated "criminal underworld," if you will. Am I off base there too?

No one really knows since they haven't been discussed in much detail other than being underground. It might be that the prison sinks are bery much like the Underdark of Faerun and it's just Fel Zharost is from the region directly underneath Albion.

[Terminus]

Is Albia where the palace is situated? Because as seen in Praetorian of Dorn there was a prison sink under the palace itself. So I would assume there's a whole layer of these complexes, many probably forgotten.

[Nusquam]

There were some loyalist night lords in Raven Lord that met up with other loyalists from traitor legions post isstvan III that corax picked up and used.

[Kol Saresk]

Not likely. The Imperial Palace covers most of the Asian continent, centered around the Himalayas IIRC. Meanwhile Albia is believed to be what became of the British Isles.

 

That said, if the underdark concept is correct, then what's under the Imperial Palace would simply be a different region of the same complex.

 

But agreed, since the whole concept was "Dump 'em down there and forget about 'em", it's extremely likely that the general degradation of governments would lead to everyone forgetting they existed at all until either the inhabitants found a way out or the Emperor began pulling people out to recruit for his armies.

[b1soul]

Terran VIIIth Legion loyalists would be more likely than Nostraman NL loyalists

 

That said...who's to say there aren't a small number of Nostramans who reject Nostraman culture?

[Hyaenidae]

I would have said that Mercutian would have been close, if I was a betting man. Had he a different mentor, I think he could have been an actual, no kidding, drop-jaw-in-surprise, hero. 

 

Or maybe I'm micro-fanboying here. Whatev's, it's an intriguing thought.