sculpting CSM metal trim?

[Midwest]

Does anyone have suggestions, advice, or maybe even a tutorial regarding sculpting CSM-style metal trim to models, including infantry and vehicle models?

 

I know there's the plastic sheets I can get from hobby stores, which would probably work well enough for vehicles, but I feel like green stuff sculpting might work better for infantry or certain smaller instances.

 

Anyone have tips or such? I've tried searching through this forum, but didn't see anything (apologies if I've missed a thread).

[Teetengee]

Venomlust has done some:
Sculpting starts here in his thread.

[Grotsmasha]

For vehicles you definitely want to check out Subtle Discords stuff over at his Dark Works website.

 

http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Midwest]

Venomlust has done some:

Sculpting starts here in his thread.

 

Thanks, I'll have to check this out!

 

 

For vehicles you definitely want to check out Subtle Discords stuff over at his Dark Works website.

 

http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

Whoa, that's some nice kit! Very tempting for Rhinos, although vehicle-wise I was thinking of the Demos-pattern Rhinos from FW.

[Khornestar]

 

 

Let me know if you have any questions. In a nutshell, the key is using the right tools and using less green stuff than you think you'll need. IMO it's easier to add more than it is to remove extra without messing up the sculpt. In a couple of weeks I'd be happy to make a tutorial, if you think one would be helpful.

[Midwest]

Let me know if you have any questions. In a nutshell, the key is using the right tools and using less green stuff than you think you'll need. IMO it's easier to add more than it is to remove extra without messing up the sculpt. In a couple of weeks I'd be happy to make a tutorial, if you think one would be helpful.

A tutorial would be awesomesauce!

 

It does sound like the main thing is to just get to it - in terms of tools, what would rec for such a project? I think I still have the large Gale Force 9 set of sculpting tools I bought years ago.

 

For the material itself, would green stuff work, or would you rec another epoxy type?

[Khornestar]

I use these clay shapers, though they seem more expensive than when I bought them:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00399KKMW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I've used green stuff almost exclusively. I once tried "brown stuff" which I believe is supposed to be less supple than green stuff, but at such a small scale on a single little bit of trim I couldn't tell much difference. Maybe in the future I'll give it another chance and see how it compares.

[Subtle Discord]

*Forces his inner 6-year-old not to giggle when he says...* 'Brownstuff' will cure much harder. Where a tube or hose of Greenstuff will be flexible, Brownstuff will be very hard and brittle. It makes it easier to sand, file, and shape once it's cured. Naturally, you can mix the two to get a blend of their characteristics.

[Khornestar]

If only it were possible for you to mass produce trim kits for power armor, we could use modern kits like MK IV from BaC. I just can't think of a way for it to work, unless it's some kind material that can maintain its shape but also be stretched over the contours of a rounded surface. Like a super thick type of vinyl, for lack of a better way of describing it.

 

Maybe the answer would be to make a flat sheet of green stuff and then use a sort of cookie cutter to cut thin strips that will already have the little spiked/triangular shapes pre-cut. If the green stuff sheet was cured before application, then it couldn't be ruined as it is attached. Just glue and trim away the excess. If cut before the green stuff cures, then the trim can have angles and curves sculpted into it. But then, I'm not sure that process would really save much time. It might just provide a way of making uniform trim, though. I always set out to make the trim on my dudes look similar, but then just let the process flow organically and end up with something unique for each one. Given the nature of CHAOS I think that's fine.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

 Before I ever got involved with greenstuff, I had a go at doing the chaos trim with some very thin strip plastic. Here's a really awful, broken figure that was one of my very first marine conversions.

 

http://i.imgur.com/uEcTtml.jpg

 

The trim around the bottom edge of his chest armor is the strip plastic and I cut small triangles from it, glued them on and covered the seam with a little super glue and sanded it flush.

[Midwest]

If only it were possible for you to mass produce trim kits for power armor, we could use modern kits like MK IV from BaC. I just can't think of a way for it to work, unless it's some kind material that can maintain its shape but also be stretched over the contours of a rounded surface. Like a super thick type of vinyl, for lack of a better way of describing it.

 

Maybe the answer would be to make a flat sheet of green stuff and then use a sort of cookie cutter to cut thin strips that will already have the little spiked/triangular shapes pre-cut. If the green stuff sheet was cured before application, then it couldn't be ruined as it is attached. Just glue and trim away the excess. If cut before the green stuff cures, then the trim can have angles and curves sculpted into it. But then, I'm not sure that process would really save much time. It might just provide a way of making uniform trim, though. I always set out to make the trim on my dudes look similar, but then just let the process flow organically and end up with something unique for each one. Given the nature of CHAOS I think that's fine.

Several companies (I believe) make pre-cut strips of plastic for use in modeling, including flat strips, rods, and other shapes (including I-beams). Some of the narrower, thinner strips might be small and bendable enough to work around shoulder pads, greaves, and other relatively large areas of infantry models.

 

 Before I ever got involved with greenstuff, I had a go at doing the chaos trim with some very thin strip plastic. Here's a really awful, broken figure that was one of my very first marine conversions.

 

http://i.imgur.com/uEcTtml.jpg

 

The trim around the bottom edge of his chest armor is the strip plastic and I cut small triangles from it, glued them on and covered the seam with a little super glue and sanded it flush.

That actually looks really nice IMO. Are those legs from one of the 2nd Ed metal CSM sculpts?

[Subtle Discord]

I have more to add to this conversation, but I have run out of my allotted B&C procrastination time for today. :)

[Khornestar]

I have more to add to this conversation, but I have run out of my allotted B&C procrastination time for today. :)

 

It's a new day, the procrastination hourglass has been flipped!

[Subtle Discord]

Ok, I had planned to show this little experiment in Legion Rising, but since it's topic relevant it'll fit fine right here.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/2016%20WIP%20Photos/Chaos_Scratch_Power_Armour_Trim_01.jpg

I had some plans for my B@C box; can I use thin styrene to create the armour trim I want, and smugly sidestep my trepidation about sculpting with greenstuff?

Put simply. I tried man... Oh I tried... Nope, this is not going to happen. The shoulder pads are one thing, and actually quite simple to do. I'm quite pleased with how they turned out, and I even got my signature double layering on nice and clean. However, as soon as I got into some other lines, like on the leg here, it was a nightmare to try and follow them cleanly and accurately.

My Zing cutter can't handle arrows, but it can make a really nice strip of points with nice smooth curves, so that's what I did. Again, straight simple lines on the pads made it easy, but the legs required two unique curved pieces that took several tries each to fit and were still a pain to attach clean and accurate. Even at 0.13mm thick, they're just a paint to wrap around the surface, even with lots of pre-curving/bending. On the large surface area of a vehicle they'd go on like butter, but here it reaches that problem that I've found with scratch styrene building - scale; once you get down to a certain scale, yes you can do almost anything, but it becomes harder-and-harder to pull off anything really elaborate. It can be done, but be ready for the labour.

For me, it would literally be easier to build a Solidworks model and have it printed if I really wanted it that badly. It's actually quite tempting, truth be told (I've found I'm very good at 3D modeling), but not really what I want to do. I have plenty of my own ideas, after-all. I'd rather GW just get the new Chaos Marine basic squad updated, damnit! And I know not everyone has the model their own option like me, but it's still a significant effort to 3D model something like this, and I'd rather do it that way, if that gives you an idea of how frustrating even this little bit was.

Nope, these little psychopaths are going to become some Son's of Horus it seems. This is actually one of the things that got me looking at 30k and my new R&H counts-as Dark Mechanicus. I'm starting them in part so I can wait on GW to update some of the core Chaos kits. It has to happen someday, soon'ish, I hope, (maybe?), and there's plenty of projects to fill the gap, truth be told.

[Khornestar]

Ran out of likes at the wrooong time. That looks good! I especially like the leg trim, but I can see why that would be annoying to do.

 

Gives me the (ultra time-consuming) idea of cutting the upper edge details like the spikes and curves first, then gluing it to the leg and then trimming the lower edge with the blade to match the edge of the leg armor. With all that effort I could probably just sculpt the damn thing, though. Hmm...

[Subtle Discord]

Exactly! Doing all this to avoid sculpting it, when really, if you sculpt it to 80-90% of where it should be, trim the messy bits with a really sharp razor to refine the edge, do a little sanding/filing, and maybe a cleanup with a bit of greenstuff in some spots. As much as it seem like so much more work, compared to the work it took to do this... I don't know...

 

And lets be honest with ourselves, if anyone does this, it's not that long before you get the hang of it if you're really serious about pulling it off, you just have to accept that the first few (maybe several) won't be as good as the later ones. Once you zone in on the technique, it can't be that bad... but I personally still dread the learning curve for some reason.

[Teetengee]

@Subtle,

As much as you say it isn't worth the effort, those would be gorgeous.

[Midwest]

Exactly! Doing all this to avoid sculpting it, when really, if you sculpt it to 80-90% of where it should be, trim the messy bits with a really sharp razor to refine the edge, do a little sanding/filing, and maybe a cleanup with a bit of greenstuff in some spots. As much as it seem like so much more work, compared to the work it took to do this... I don't know...

 

And lets be honest with ourselves, if anyone does this, it's not that long before you get the hang of it if you're really serious about pulling it off, you just have to accept that the first few (maybe several) won't be as good as the later ones. Once you zone in on the technique, it can't be that bad... but I personally still dread the learning curve for some reason.

I definitely see your point, but your work (which is awesome) makes me think the plastic strips might at least be a really good bet for vehicle armour.

 

Do you add rivets to your trim?

[Khornestar]

Oh man, your world's gonna change after you read Subtle's plog. Highly recommend just taking a few hours to go through it. Much inspiration for the heretic therein.