Ultramarines Legion Chaplains or Wardens - are they a thing?

[millest]

So a question for all, did the Ultramarines Legion have chaplains or similar (such as wardens) prior to the Horus heresy? The only reasons I ask is I would love to try and model one. I suspect they did as it would seem very unlike the primarch to add one to his codex astartes almost randomly without prior inclusion or interaction in the legion. Can anyone confirm and provide sources etc so I can do some research.
thanks

[Noserenda]

I suspect so, mostly for the reasons you bring up :)

 

I cant recall any in canon so far though? (Which ofc does not mean they arent there!)

[Legatus]

The Index Astartes article (reprinted in the Index Astartes volume 2) described Chaplains as having an important role in the recruitment of new initiates, assessing their mental capacity and teaching them the traditions and beliefs of the Chapter. That role is described as prescribed in the Codex Astartes. The Chapter's own beliefs are also described as older than and different from the Imperial Cult. So based on that it would absolutely make sense for the Ultramarines Legion to have used Chaplains for that very same purpose.

 

The HH5 book 'Tempest' does not seem to mention Ultramarine Chaplains at all (unless I have glanced over their mention). Certainly not on the pages 84 and 85 where a number of different rank and specialist insignia are presented. But then lore accuracy in 'Tempest' has been largely dismissed in favour of selling special unit kits. It is possible that Chaplains were deliberately omitted for the Ultramarines to distinguish them more from the antagonistic Word Bearers in that volume. It is also just as possible that they were simply forgotten because of all the exciting new and never before heard of units that were developed for that book.

[millest]

thanks chaps, looks like i may well be creating PA and TA wearing versions then for fun :)

[Noserenda]

 

It is also just as possible that they were simply forgotten because of all the exciting new and never before heard of units that were developed for that book.

 

 

All the kits they dont yet have? :P

 

More likely they dont have room to go into detail on every specialist centurion. Thinking about it (And reading deliverance lost at lunch) it seems the Chaplains were generally widespread amongst the legions and BL/FW has generally flagged up where they _arent_ rather than where they are, meaning the lack of mention pretty much adds to the evidence they are there in the background.

[Legatus]

Sure, maybe the Ultramarines' Chaplains were simply assumed as a given. But on the other hand, when there is a page with a list of 20 different shoulder pad insignia of different unit and officer types, including 4 different variants of Captain, then why wouldn't they include a Chaplain pad here? The next page shows 12 different helmet variants of different unit types or ranks. Again no Chaplain, which would have been the most distinct helmet of them all.

[Idomeneus]

The idea of death masked chaplains is not widespread, given that the idea is that the chaplain wears his skull helmet in memory of the Emperor's sacrifice the fact that there are any is surprising, but they turn up in the III and IX Legions. An Ultramarine chaplain may well simply be a morale officer in standard centurion level armour. Apologist has done a bit on them using the more traditional chaplain look:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324752-praetors-of-calth/

My preferred "Chaplain" character would be an officer in the Evocati or Invictarii, as these cover the roles of training and morale boosting, without the irrational and religious connotations of a chaplain proper. This I feel would fit in better with the Ultramarine way of war.

[Vodunius]

Betrayal at Calth comes with transfers for doing the Word Bearer force as Ultramarines and vice versa, including the Chaplain.

 

 

 

Sure, maybe the Ultramarines' Chaplains were simply assumed as a given. But on the other hand, when there is a page with a list of 20 different shoulder pad insignia of different unit and officer types, including 4 different variants of Captain, then why wouldn't they include a Chaplain pad here? The next page shows 12 different helmet variants of different unit types or ranks. Again no Chaplain, which would have been the most distinct helmet of them all.

There's also no Techmarine.

[Atia]

I'll just leave this here ...

[millest]

i forgot about that image! thanks folks :D

Apologist has done a bit on them using the more traditional chaplain look:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324752-praetors-of-calth/

 

 

one of my favourite HH ultras threads :)

[apologist]

(I've replied to your Facebook post, Millest, but thought it might be interesting to copy it across here in case it's useful to anyone else. Hope that's cool )

Personally, I'd argue that Chaplains would be present in the Ultramarines. It's mainly circumstantial evidence, but there's enough of it that it points to the Chaplaincy being present in the XIIIth at least in some form.

+ The existence of Chaplains in 30k +

First off, we know Chaplains exist during the early events of the Horus Heresy – Chaplain Charmosian of the Emperor's Children is a good example, present in Visions of Heresy, Galaxy in Flames and Fulgrim. There are also numerous references to the use of them in other Legions; sometimes by other names. The Salamanders in Massacre provide one such example: 'Rhino armoured carrier assigned to one of the Igniax, as Chaplains were known amongst the Salamanders.'

However, the notional Strategic Disposition of a Space Marine Legion (Betrayal) does not mention a Chaplaincy. In contrast, the Legion Apothecarian, Librarium etc. are specifically mentioned. The nearest thing is the mention of a Commissary as part of the Legion support corps. To me, this suggests that the Chaplains didn't exist as such during the early Great Crusade, which tallies with the older background that they were modelled on an innovation of the Word Bearers.

Where do they come from, then? Looking at the Word Bearers background in Massacre, we find that:

One of the tangible changes that came with the return of the Primarch Lorgar was an increase in the importance of ceremony. The black clad and skull helmed heralds of the old Legion were given new authority to ensure the moral strength of their brother Legionaries. The new Chaplains would be the core of the Legion's strength[...].

Okay, so we now have a source for the black armour and skull helms – the pre-Lorgar XVIIIth Legion had heralds (lower case – possibly a literal rank, a reference to the Legion's unofficial 'Imperial Heralds' title or perhaps a writer's flourish) with black armour and skull helms, who were then developed into a specific rank called 'Chaplains'. Lorgar was the fourteenth Primarch found around 840.M30. Massacre goes on to say:

The change took decades to complete. [...] The Chaplains, [Lorgar's] new vanguard of faith, subtly altered the counsel they gave their brothers. New structures of organisation sprang up beside the old military hierarchy;

...and:

The Word Bearers followed much of the structure of the legiones Astartes during their earliest incarnation. [...] This functional structure remained largely unchanged from when the Legion was the Imperial Heralds until their overt treachery on Isstvan V. The rediscovery of their Primarch and the influx of recruits from Colchis did little to change the Legion's basic structure, rather it added layers of organisation. This second layer of organisation was concerned, not with the makeup of units on the battlefield, but with the ideology of those units.

Which tells us that the Chaplains are not integrated with the military; and that the Word Bearers were otherwise fairly standard in organisation. We can thus fairly apply the early Legion model in Betrayal; with the addition that:

The second line of authority in the chapter was spiritual. The Chaplains, although nominally attached to companies

and chapters, in reality were a brotherhood unto themselves.

To summarise: the Word Bearers created the Chaplains to stand outside their otherwise standard military hierarchy. This is consistent with their later role as monitors of the Librarius.

+ Chaplains in the Ultramarines +

We are told in Tempest that:

From its earliest incarnation, the Xlllth Legion had remained true to the strictures of the Principia Bellicosa, as laid down [...] at the beginning of the Great Crusade. [...]Unlike many of their brother Legions, they made little attempt to re-codify the structure or vary the size of individual units. Instead, the War-born enshrined the basic strictures of this system as an honoured tradition of the Legion, one that was to see little modification even m its later years after the rediscovery of Guilliman, who expanded and elaborated on this structure[...]

and:

the XIIIth's practice of [...]adopting modified versions of their comrade Legions' tactics where efficacious. This spoke to Guilliman's own predilection for analysis and observation [...] he studied with a relentless precision, always seeking to distil and improve upon success and exceed the originator's accomplishments [...]

The question then becomes a fairly simple one. We know Guilliman adopts practices that he sees as efficacious. Does he think this of the Word Bearers' Chaplains? I'd argue yes:

While there's no direct evidence (that I'm aware of), I think there's plenty of circumstantial evidence that the Ultramarines would have a Chaplaincy of some form prior to Nikea; and certainly afterwards, as the XIIIth followed up on the Emperor's orders to oversee teh dissolution of the Librarius and monitor the ex-Librarians – in other words, some form of office was necessary to police this.

We also know that the Legion had parts outside the military structure: the 'twenty-five Chapters of the Legion [...] comprised a single cohesive force', but the Vigil Opertii (and arguably the Invictarii and Evocati) are separate groups – the sort of 'expansion and elaboration' mentioned earlier.

Secondly, the Legion Centurion entry in Betrayal mentions Chaplains as one of the more common types of Consuls; suggesting their presence in most (if not all) Legions: i.e. part of the basic strictures of the Legions by this point. Whether those charged with overseeing the Librarians were known specifically as 'Chaplains' or some other name is largely redundant; but given that we know from Know No Fear that Guilliman was keen to reconcile with the Word Bearers, I'd suggest that the adoption and refinement of the Chaplains from the XVIIth's model would be an elegant solution for Guilliman.

+++

+ Thoughts and musings +

To summarise, then, we know that Chaplains are common across the Legions as a whole by the later years of the Great Crusade, and are often set apart from the direct military heirarchy. We also know that any Legion that obeyed the Edict of Nikea would have had Chaplains (even if known by some other name) to enforce and monitor it.

Since the Ultramarines' were both relatively standard in their approach and keen to adapt outside structures, I'd suggest that they would use Chaplains, but not by name (simply since most of the terms they use are non-standard – e.g. Legati, Tetrarchs etc). I'd also suggest that it's unlikely they'd paint them black or use skull helms etc.; except that they were keen to reconcile with the Word Bearers.

Thus, there's freedom to interpret the Ultramarines' Chaplains as 'theatrical' black-armored, skull-helmed ones (in order to please the XVIIth) or as less obtrusive Military Police types who look much like other Ultramarines. There's even space for them to work like secret agents or undercover spies as a go-between for the Vigil Opertii and the Legion military.

Lots of opportunities!

[millest]

thats perfect info thanks :)

problem is now youve mentioned it i now want a squad of the old RT Military police :)

 

on the subject of the MPs though (and i know that they arent currently cannon) i envisage them being a bit like DW in 40k in the sense that they all come from the different legions and work together to keep the imperial army in check. Colours wise i like them all in black armour but with a marking on either a leg panel or a gauntlet showing their parent legion in gold, nice and subtle though.

 

sorry this thread is bringing out my random musings :)

[Arkangilos]

I thought chaplains were added as part of the Edict of Nikea, so they would have to have them.

[Atia]

Well, I really think there is not much to add since GW painted the chaplain blue and gave him a white face mask :P there you go with your scheme ^.^