Black Library Live- Nov 19th

[Tymell]

Would the Iron Hands be in the middle then? I feel like Fulgrim and Meduson are the only major ones that I could think of.

They had The Damnation of Pythos, the Feat of Iron novella and most of The Seventh Serpent, plus the parts in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus, and lots of shorts.

[BNG1991]

In The Word of the Silent King, one of the Triarch hinted that Sanguinius might have accepted the help from Necron force during HH. I wonder whether it is true or not, or will it be cover in the future HH novel?

[b1soul]

The Last Hunt by Robbie MacNiven – a White Scars novel.

 

Nice...but it'll be hard to equal or surpass Wraight

 

Is Robbie any good?

[DarkChaplain]

In The Word of the Silent King, one of the Triarch hinted that Sanguinius might have accepted the help from Necron force during HH. I wonder whether it is true or not, or will it be cover in the future HH novel?

 

I hope it plays into things, as it'd reinforce the role of the Silent King (and him appearing after Pharos makes sense), and The Word of the Silent King was written by Laurie Goulding - so he definitely knows what's what in the future of the series.

[Roomsky]

Quite looking forward to Ruinstorm, I enjoyed most everything about Damnation of Pythos except for the bland subject matter, which shouldn't be an issue in a book about three entire legions struggling to reach Terra in time.

 

Old Earth is a Nick Kyme sallies novel so I doubt I'll ever read it. I look forward to the hilarious synopsis though.

 

Crimson King I'm a little worried, it could go either way. On one hand, A Thousand Sons was brilliant, and it was his previous story about Magnus. On the other hand, Vengeful Spirit was a reasonably entertaining garbage fire, and that was his last full-length book for BL. Here's hoping his talent for Magnus gives us a decent ride.

 

And it seems we'll probably get another anthology after Garro, here's hoping for Tallarn. 

[veterannoob]

 

The Last Hunt by Robbie MacNiven – a White Scars novel.

Nice...but it'll be hard to equal or surpass Wraight

 

Is Robbie any good?

 

Robbie is great and of the tier up-and-coming I have a lot of confidence in him. The sharks novel should be ace, but granted, some of that might just be gratitude that they are getting a novel at all. 

[b1soul]

Robbie is great and of the tier up-and-coming I have a lot of confidence in him. The sharks novel should be ace, but granted, some of that might just be gratitude that they are getting a novel at all.

 

That's comforting to hear.

 

Nowadays, I only have faith in ADB, Wraight, French, and Abnett (though it appears he has left BL).

 

I think Annandale, Haley, Sanders, and Smilie are OK but not great.

 

I hope Robbie is at least as good as French.

 

I see that he's written Legacy of Russ. Is that any good?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

Robbie is great and of the tier up-and-coming I have a lot of confidence in him. The sharks novel should be ace, but granted, some of that might just be gratitude that they are getting a novel at all.

That's comforting to hear.

 

Nowadays, I only have faith in ADB, Wraight, French, and Abnett (though it appears he has left BL).

 

I think Annandale, Haley, Sanders, and Smilie are OK but not great.

 

I hope Robbie is at least as good as French.

 

I see that he's written Legacy of Russ. Is that any good?

 

 

I wasnt a fan of Legacy of Russ, it felt too much like bolter porn

[b1soul]

I wasnt a fan of Legacy of Russ, it felt too much like bolter porn

I just read a snippet...bolter porn indeed

 

Perhaps that was BL's instruction to Robbie for writing Legacy..."have the SW kill a lot of things"

 

His prose seems OK

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

I wasnt a fan of Legacy of Russ, it felt too much like bolter porn

I just read a snippet...bolter porn indeed

 

Perhaps that was BL's instruction to Robbie for writing Legacy..."have the SW kill a lot of things"

 

His prose seems OK

 

 

They read alot like the Battle of Prosero in A Thousand Sons

 

One page has the Wolves being massacred, the next has the Wolves ripping through their enemy...and then back to be massacred.

 

It makes no sense and leaves a reader feeling kinda disjointed.

 

And I REALLY wanted a few Wolf characters to die...no dice despite some good teasing. 

[m_r_parker]

Ok, on the whole feeling 'disjointed' there's something that's been irking me when I listened to The Thirteenth Wolf during the event.

Spoiler Alert:

 

 

Seriously, this will pretty much spoil the entire audio drama. So please, read at your peril, and be respectful in any replies to those that may want to experience it first-hand.

 

The audio drama focusses on the Wolf Lord of the 13th Company and his pursuit of a Thousand Sons sorcerer during the razing of Prospero. The Thousand Sons retreat through a series of portals, transporting them to different parts of Prospero and some places beyond. Eventaully the wolves catch up to the sorcerer who's frozen the two forces mid conflict. The sorcerer explains that the portals are highly sensitive instruments that require careful calibration, and the wolves using them have caused the portals to degenerate and fall apart, risking them to be lost in the portals. He offers to surrender to the wolves, unfreeze the combat, and then stabilise the remaining portal back to Tizca before all passing through. The Wolf Lord states that Russ has said that they're not permitted to accept terms of surrender, and buries his axe in the head of the sorcerer, condemning them to be trapped within the portal maze.

Seriously - it's the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard, and just makes the Wolves appear completely stupid and barbaric. They could have just waited until after they got to Tizca to kill the Sons, but no they had to do it immediately even though it made no sense.

Plus, I'm fairly sure one off the voice actors at the beginning said Russ like goose with an 'R'...

 

 

 

[Tymell]

That's exactly the feeling I got too.

 

 

The Wolves, in particular Bulveye, come off -really- badly in it, they just give the impression of fitting the "stupid blundering barbarians" stereotype.

 

They're laughing and merrily joking about the impending slaughter at the start, then Bulveye is given sound advice not to mess with the portals but does so anyway. Then once they finally make it back to Tizca he is again given sound advice to link up with the rest of their forces, but instead goes back in to look for other Wolves in the portal system (something that comes across as more foolhardy than brave). And then when the sorcerer offers a very reasonable ceasefire he just butchers him and condemns them all to their fate.

 

The TS sorcerer honestly comes across much better. He rightly points out that this [the troubles in the portals] is all the Wolves' fault for messing with something they don't understand, and offers a truce to save them all, even presumably knowing they'll execute him anyway later.

 

[DarkChaplain]

I've listened to the first ~40 minutes three times already and struggle to finish it.

 

The concept is cool, but it seems bogged down by a lot of summarising and exposition early on. Look at us, we're space wolves, we won't show mercy, bad Magnus used bad magics. Howl.

I don't know, it feels clumsy. Sure, as a tie-in to Burning of Prospero, that stuff was needed, but the way it was included doesn't seem satisfying.

 

The Thousand Sons' sorcerer makes good points and compared to Bulveye and co, he's reasonable. The Wolves are kinda maniacs. Which I guess fits with them going Wulfen while they're lost...

 

 

Gonna try finishing it now, if I can keep my attention on it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Wow, that is worse than I expected

 

I tried to listen to it while grading papers but kept getting distracted. I told myself I'll try to give it a listen later

 

Now I will probably skip it

[Runefyre]

Edit: Don't mind me. I need to work on my positivism. Gotta stop being so negative.

[HeritorA]

Wow, that is worse than I expected

 

I tried to listen to it while grading papers but kept getting distracted. I told myself I'll try to give it a listen later

 

Now I will probably skip it

13TH Wolf is an amazing audio drama! Dogs shown exactly how they are

[The Scythes]

I for one, in a totally unbiased manner, look forward to the Audio Drama and the Scythes Collection in the new year. For some unfathomable reason the remainder don't quite excite me, well, perhaps the new Emperor novel of late. ;)

 

Thanks for the BL upcoming summary.

[RobMac]

 

 

Robbie is great and of the tier up-and-coming I have a lot of confidence in him. The sharks novel should be ace, but granted, some of that might just be gratitude that they are getting a novel at all.

That's comforting to hear.

 

Nowadays, I only have faith in ADB, Wraight, French, and Abnett (though it appears he has left BL).

 

I think Annandale, Haley, Sanders, and Smilie are OK but not great.

 

I hope Robbie is at least as good as French.

 

I see that he's written Legacy of Russ. Is that any good?

 

 

I wasnt a fan of Legacy of Russ, it felt too much like bolter porn

 

Legacy was a challenge, that's for sure - as the sequel to Curse of the Wulfen it had to take around a dozen point-of-view characters (as opposed to the usual four or so) across five different settings, almost all involved in combat of some sort, and tie all their stories off in less than 80,000 words. It was a task for my first novel, but getting to write about a brace of well established, in-universe characters like Ragnar or Azrael was also a massive privilege. 

 

 

The Last Hunt by Robbie MacNiven – a White Scars novel.

Nice...but it'll be hard to equal or surpass Wraight

 

Is Robbie any good?

 

I admit, I didn't know a huge amount about the Scars, but after reading Wraight's truly masterful Heresy books on them I'm well and truly enamoured. They're such a truly unique Chapter, I hope I do them justice. 

[m_r_parker]

 

13TH Wolf is an amazing audio drama! Dogs shown exactly how they are

 

 

I could not disagree more.

 

I'll put it out there that I'm not a huge fan of the Wolves in general, and a lot of that is down to some pretty poor representation of the Legion / Chapter in the background. A lot of it comes across that they're backwards and stuck in the ways of a barbarian or viking culture (which ultimately they were originally based on), and not really adopting the ways of the Astartes. The use of them as the censure Legion was a nice touch and gave them purpose and a unique purpose, but still hasn't been handled well in a number of occasions.

 

There have been some really good representations of the Wolves in the Heresy. Prospero Burns nails it in a lot of ways, as it details the Wolves as having a deep tradition (particularly a strong oral tradition) without it being all-encompassing into their warfare. There's another short where a squad is sent to watch over Dorn, and they're giving introductions to a representative of Malcador. Instead of giving them their full names and honour titles, they actually conform to the names and ranks that other Legions use. Both of these don't resort to a cliched view of the Wolves, and actually make a lot of sense.

 

Thirteenth Wolf however doesn't follow in these great examples of how the Wolves should be, and just plays on bad Norse tropes and a very singular objective that they go towards without any real thought. Part of that will be down to the author, but a large part of it will be down to having to shoehorn in a way that this Great Company of Wolves gets lost within the warp and begin the process of becoming the Wulfen. The mechanism for the way that the Wolves get trapped is actually half decent, but they're portrayed in such a one dimensional way that it's easy to overlook. 

 

The ending is just ridiculously bad, and is the final nail in the coffin of just how badly the Wolves have been written in this story. They have an objective, kill the Thousand Sons, and they will do this regardless of little sense it makes, and how much it might benefit them if they just put their weapons away for a couple of minutes. Some might say that the Wolves wouldn't back down, or that they were given specific orders that they are following to the letter, but this just enforces a bad stereotype of not being able to adapt to situations in the field to their own detriment. I literally face-palmed when that moment hit, not just for the stupidity of the Wolves but also the poor way that the 'getting stuck in the warp' has been handled. It could have been better if it was a hot-headed young wolf that ends up killing the TS sorcerer despite the Wolf Lord telling him not to, or that the Sorcerror is accidentally killed during a firefight, but having the Wolf Lord take that decision upon himself is dumb.

 

At the heart of the Heresy, Prospero is a tragedy on many levels. Magnus and his Legion are condemned for breaking the Nikea edict, when Magnus' reasons are to noble at their heart in trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' upcoming betrayal. The Wolves are tricked by Horus into censuring the Legion, instead of simply bringing them to the Emperor, and having two powerful Legions decimate each other rather than stand against the Warmaster. Magnus purposely hides the oncoming Wolf fleet from the Legion, leaving them unprepared for when the Wolves arrive and causing more losses to his own Legion in the upcoming conflict. The Sons end up succumbing to the flesh change in great numbers by trying to defend themselves against the Wolves, condemning themselves in the process. There's tragedy all over this conflict, and the continuation of tragedy as a theme would help glue the connecting stories together. I don't see the tragedy in this story, all I feel is 'Well, you got what you deserved for being an idiot'.

[HeritorA]

13TH Wolf is an amazing audio drama! Dogs shown exactly how they are

I could not disagree more.

I'll put it out there that I'm not a huge fan of the Wolves in general, and a lot of that is down to some pretty poor representation of the Legion / Chapter in the background. A lot of it comes across that they're backwards and stuck in the ways of a barbarian or viking culture (which ultimately they were originally based on), and not really adopting the ways of the Astartes. The use of them as the censure Legion was a nice touch and gave them purpose and a unique purpose, but still hasn't been handled well in a number of occasions.

There have been some really good representations of the Wolves in the Heresy. Prospero Burns nails it in a lot of ways, as it details the Wolves as having a deep tradition (particularly a strong oral tradition) without it being all-encompassing into their warfare. There's another short where a squad is sent to watch over Dorn, and they're giving introductions to a representative of Malcador. Instead of giving them their full names and honour titles, they actually conform to the names and ranks that other Legions use. Both of these don't resort to a cliched view of the Wolves, and actually make a lot of sense.

Thirteenth Wolf however doesn't follow in these great examples of how the Wolves should be, and just plays on bad Norse tropes and a very singular objective that they go towards without any real thought. Part of that will be down to the author, but a large part of it will be down to having to shoehorn in a way that this Great Company of Wolves gets lost within the warp and begin the process of becoming the Wulfen. The mechanism for the way that the Wolves get trapped is actually half decent, but they're portrayed in such a one dimensional way that it's easy to overlook.

The ending is just ridiculously bad, and is the final nail in the coffin of just how badly the Wolves have been written in this story. They have an objective, kill the Thousand Sons, and they will do this regardless of little sense it makes, and how much it might benefit them if they just put their weapons away for a couple of minutes. Some might say that the Wolves wouldn't back down, or that they were given specific orders that they are following to the letter, but this just enforces a bad stereotype of not being able to adapt to situations in the field to their own detriment. I literally face-palmed when that moment hit, not just for the stupidity of the Wolves but also the poor way that the 'getting stuck in the warp' has been handled. It could have been better if it was a hot-headed young wolf that ends up killing the TS sorcerer despite the Wolf Lord telling him not to, or that the Sorcerror is accidentally killed during a firefight, but having the Wolf Lord take that decision upon himself is dumb.

At the heart of the Heresy, Prospero is a tragedy on many levels. Magnus and his Legion are condemned for breaking the Nikea edict, when Magnus' reasons are to noble at their heart in trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' upcoming betrayal. The Wolves are tricked by Horus into censuring the Legion, instead of simply bringing them to the Emperor, and having two powerful Legions decimate each other rather than stand against the Warmaster. Magnus purposely hides the oncoming Wolf fleet from the Legion, leaving them unprepared for when the Wolves arrive and causing more losses to his own Legion in the upcoming conflict. The Sons end up succumbing to the flesh change in great numbers by trying to defend themselves against the Wolves, condemning themselves in the process. There's tragedy all over this conflict, and the continuation of tragedy as a theme would help glue the connecting stories together. I don't see the tragedy in this story, all I feel is 'Well, you got what you deserved for being an idiot'.

True - Gav Wolves representation definitely more barbaric and not as good as Abnett's or Wraight's. But me being a fan of dying space dogs - I did enjoyed it a lot