M@verik115 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I dont know if anyone has picked up on this, but one this official artwork of Malcador, notice the 2 skulls on his throne numbered (II and XI), the numbers of the 2 missing legions.Does this mean both were actually found, committed heresy and were destroyed at the orders of Malcador? http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2012/08/large-sigillite.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Yeah this image is pretty old and has been floating around for a long time. As for info on them, GW straight up told their writers to stop mentionning them in their books in any way (At least I think thats what AD-B told us). As such, we're likely to never know and all we can do is speculate (a lot of which has already happened around here in the past). We'll also pretty much never get any new info on this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Never noticed 2 and 11 on the throne! But yeah, there is no answer. Maybe one day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Only reason I picked up that audio. I should've known better. Not that it was bad of course I just felt conned by clearly an obvious marketing strategy :p Number 2 is the lightning bearers of Icarion Stormborn of course :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Listen to The Lightning Tower. There is a coversation between Dorn and Malcador about the II. and XI. Legion and what happend to them. In Prospero Burns is another hint about their faith. And in The First Heretic is also a hint. Both Legions had not become completly lost. Most of them had been absorbed by the XIII. Legion after the death of the two Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm pretty sure the whole reason GW had the II and XI legions purged was so that the option was left to players to make up their own legion if they wanted, so if GW released information on those two legions it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of them being left out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 It's Illuminati related 11 legion is 1+1=2. The 2nd and the 11th both went to serve Malal. the 2nd representing the Black Side the 11 representing the white. 11 Is also Malal's number. Truth is only The Emperor and Sigi know what truly went down. The popular theme is they were exposed to chaos before. Like maybe the Emperor found one of his sons already rife with chaos taint and just finished him off and "removed" the Legion. Which I imagine must of been a small force at the time and easy to dispel. There was alot of talk between legionaries that one primarch was killed and the Ultramarines absorbed them. But this we know to be folly. But the REAL truth is, games workshop left two gaps so that individuals interested could actually just make their own version of a loyalist/traitor primarch. (Although I hate the fact there are only 18/20 primarchs around. really get's me right in the OCD!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Listen to The Lightning Tower. There is a coversation between Dorn and Malcador about the II. and XI. Legion and what happend to them. In Prospero Burns is another hint about their faith. And in The First Heretic is also a hint. Both Legions had not become completly lost. Most of them had been absorbed by the XIII. Legion after the death of the two Primarchs. That part in first heretic where the Word Bearers talk about rumors of the XIII Legion absorbing two other legions is more slander than it has in fact. After all, the XIII was used to humble the Word Bearers at Monarchia and they had resentment against them ever since. AD-B has stated as much on these boards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBelly1863 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm pretty sure the whole reason GW had the II and XI legions purged was so that the option was left to players to make up their own legion if they wanted, so if GW released information on those two legions it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of them being left out. This. GW is never going to fill in the blanks about these legions because they want to give everyone the option to create their own legion. You can see some of the amazing results that come of that open option by just browsing through this forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4533720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 For whatever reason these two legions failed to comply with the Emperor's edicts so they were destroyed. What they did is pure speculation. The Emperor considered doing the same to the Word Bearers and it's too bad he didn't imo but of course we wouldn't have the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4534063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's Illuminati related 11 legion is 1+1=2. The 2nd and the 11th both went to serve Malal. the 2nd representing the Black Side the 11 representing the white. 11 Is also Malal's number. Truth is only The Emperor and Sigi know what truly went down. The popular theme is they were exposed to chaos before. Like maybe the Emperor found one of his sons already rife with chaos taint and just finished him off and "removed" the Legion. Which I imagine must of been a small force at the time and easy to dispel. There was alot of talk between legionaries that one primarch was killed and the Ultramarines absorbed them. But this we know to be folly. But the REAL truth is, games workshop left two gaps so that individuals interested could actually just make their own version of a loyalist/traitor primarch. (Although I hate the fact there are only 18/20 primarchs around. really get's me right in the OCD!) I'm a big Malal fan and I never made this connection. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4534275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 No no no no no. The II Legion were the Lightning Bearers, they've got a thread and everything... At the end of the day, I think GW wouldn't succeed in making Lost Legions that people will like as much as their mental image or favourite DIY of the Lost Legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4534302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Yep, the IInd Legion were the Lightning Bearers. The XIth Legion were the gap done by GW to give us mortals some space to play with. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4534330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I thought they were the Berserkers of Uran? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4534360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerun Va'der Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 The two skulls in the throne say to me that both "lost" primarchs are dead and malcador likes people in the know to know that he was/is more powerful than two primarchs. unless this throne is in one of his underground vaults where maybe he likes to remember them in his own way .........by putting some skulls on a chair and marking them with roman numerals of the lost legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Listen to The Lightning Tower. There is a coversation between Dorn and Malcador about the II. and XI. Legion and what happend to them. In Prospero Burns is another hint about their faith. And in The First Heretic is also a hint. Both Legions had not become completly lost. Most of them had been absorbed by the XIII. Legion after the death of the two Primarchs. That part in first heretic where the Word Bearers talk about rumors of the XIII Legion absorbing two other legions is more slander than it has in fact. After all, the XIII was used to humble the Word Bearers at Monarchia and they had resentment against them ever since. AD-B has stated as much on these boards. Blackoption is entirely correct - it's bitter scuttlebutt and that's all it is. That little snippet would never have been written if A D-B thought people would take that paragraph in The First Heretic so seriously (to paraphrase the man himself). Of course, A D-B is free to correct me if I'm getting it wrong (obviously). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 There is absolutely no evidence that the XIII Legion absorbed the II and XI. Don't sully the pure, venerated name of the Ultramarines by suggesting they mixed with some potentially shameful or heretical forces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 The XIth were the Wardens of Light. Berserkers of Uran were from a different dimension where the Halcyon Wardens were the 2nd.^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyld Fireblade Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 It's Illuminati related 11 legion is 1+1=2. The 2nd and the 11th both went to serve Malal. the 2nd representing the Black Side the 11 representing the white. 11 Is also Malal's number. Truth is only The Emperor and Sigi know what truly went down. The popular theme is they were exposed to chaos before. Like maybe the Emperor found one of his sons already rife with chaos taint and just finished him off and "removed" the Legion. Which I imagine must of been a small force at the time and easy to dispel. There was alot of talk between legionaries that one primarch was killed and the Ultramarines absorbed them. But this we know to be folly. But the REAL truth is, games workshop left two gaps so that individuals interested could actually just make their own version of a loyalist/traitor primarch. (Although I hate the fact there are only 18/20 primarchs around. really get's me right in the OCD!) Actually that is not the "REAL" truth. The real truth is GW forgot about them. Back in the days of rogue trader all of the fluff was being developed, and it was during that time that GW gave us the first descriptions of the legions. The fluff of 40k was scattered and disorganized (sometimes hiysterically funny though) so GW decided that for the release of 2nd ed they would clean up and compile all of the fluff. During that process they were looking for all of the info they had written for the 20 Legions, and realized that they had nothing for two of them. They said in Rogue Trader there were 20, but only wrote about 18 of them. In order to meet their deadline they did not have time to write entirely new background for these two legions, so they went the lazy route and just wrote in "redacted" for the 2nd and 11th. They have never bothered to change that. There was no noble inclusion so we the gamers could create our own legions, GW just forgot to write about them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 It's Illuminati related 11 legion is 1+1=2. The 2nd and the 11th both went to serve Malal. the 2nd representing the Black Side the 11 representing the white. 11 Is also Malal's number. Truth is only The Emperor and Sigi know what truly went down. The popular theme is they were exposed to chaos before. Like maybe the Emperor found one of his sons already rife with chaos taint and just finished him off and "removed" the Legion. Which I imagine must of been a small force at the time and easy to dispel. There was alot of talk between legionaries that one primarch was killed and the Ultramarines absorbed them. But this we know to be folly. But the REAL truth is, games workshop left two gaps so that individuals interested could actually just make their own version of a loyalist/traitor primarch. (Although I hate the fact there are only 18/20 primarchs around. really get's me right in the OCD!) Actually that is not the "REAL" truth. The real truth is GW forgot about them. Back in the days of rogue trader all of the fluff was being developed, and it was during that time that GW gave us the first descriptions of the legions. The fluff of 40k was scattered and disorganized (sometimes hiysterically funny though) so GW decided that for the release of 2nd ed they would clean up and compile all of the fluff. During that process they were looking for all of the info they had written for the 20 Legions, and realized that they had nothing for two of them. They said in Rogue Trader there were 20, but only wrote about 18 of them. In order to meet their deadline they did not have time to write entirely new background for these two legions, so they went the lazy route and just wrote in "redacted" for the 2nd and 11th. They have never bothered to change that. There was no noble inclusion so we the gamers could create our own legions, GW just forgot to write about them. Seeing as this contradicts the 'official' take on the matter, do you have a source or evidence for this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'm confused. If you have the article that relates to that have you got a link? Not being a stickler would just like to read it ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Actually that is not the "REAL" truth. The real truth is GW forgot about them. Back in the days of rogue trader all of the fluff was being developed, and it was during that time that GW gave us the first descriptions of the legions. The fluff of 40k was scattered and disorganized (sometimes hiysterically funny though) so GW decided that for the release of 2nd ed they would clean up and compile all of the fluff. During that process they were looking for all of the info they had written for the 20 Legions, and realized that they had nothing for two of them. They said in Rogue Trader there were 20, but only wrote about 18 of them. In order to meet their deadline they did not have time to write entirely new background for these two legions, so they went the lazy route and just wrote in "redacted" for the 2nd and 11th. They have never bothered to change that. There was no noble inclusion so we the gamers could create our own legions, GW just forgot to write about them. I don't think that was the case. The article on the creation of Space Marines from the WD98 (February 1988, also found in the WD Compendium) stated that 20 First Founding Chapters were created, but that only 7 of those still existed in the 41st millennium. 'Slaves to Darkness' (1988) stated that 9 Legions had sided with Horus (p. 242). The Epic Space Marine rulebook and box back cover list 6 loyalist Legions and 6 traitor Legions, though the rulebook also mentions the Imperial Fists and the Iron Hands by name at various points. I don't think the Raven Guard is ever mentioned, nor do I know of any instance of 1st Edition material mentioning them at all. But perhaps I am not familiar enough with all the different articles that had been released in 1st Edition. (Perhaps they even are in the Epic Space Marine rulebook and I just missed it?) Curiously enough the Epic Space Marine rulebook also states that the three Legions destroyed on Istvaan V were purged from the Imperial records. And with 9 Legions siding with Horus and 8 loyal Legions mentioned in the Epic Space Marine rulebook, those 3 purged Legions would make 20 in total. It is also not very accurate to say that GW "wrote about 18 of them" in 1st Edition. The "Big Four" had some lore in the 'Armies of the Imperium' source book for Epic, and the Death Guard and the Thousand Sons had some lore in 'The Lost and the Damned', but other than that the others had only brief mentions at best, with the traitors getting some colour schemes in the two 'Realm of Chaos' books. As said eralier, I don't know of any instance of the Raven Guard even being mentioned by name. On the other hand there had been 12 loyalist Chapters listed in the original Rogue Trader rulebook. Aside from the 6 that would later be described as First Founding there were also the Flesh Eaters, the Flesh Tearers, the Blood Drinkers, the Crimson Fists, the Rainbow Warriors and the Silver Skulls. GW could have easily declared any of those as being the remaining two original First Founding Chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4541864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamy248 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Rainbow warriors? Anyone got a link for their colour scheme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4542218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I always thought the 2 missing were there from the start, originally as a reference to the Roman Legio IX Hispana which disappeared and also because at that time there were no Chapters, so the 2nd and 11th legions were the equivalent of the whole "Over 1000 chapters, maybe more" stuff to let players make their own fluff, until it became Chapters. See an early white dwarf with the "Valedictors" legion that was given as an example of creating your own. Personally my view has always been that those legions just kinda failed; like the Primarchs had geneseed deficiencies that either killed them before they matured, or shortly thereafter (think like heavily mutated primarchs) so they were put down, and they were rolled into other Legions (presumably the Ultras). The Edict of Obliteration was because for all intents and purposes those legions were never actually created, and they wanted to cover up the fact that the Emperor's geneseed experiments were anything less than perfect. But really, it seems to me there are deliberately different things being said to keep people guessing. Maybe they had some genetic deficiency, maybe the Wolves had to wipe them out, maybe the Emperor just miscounted and didn't have enough geneseed for 20 but only 18 and didn't want anyone to know he messed up. Nobody knows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4542226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Rainbow warriors? Anyone got a link for their colour scheme? Ultramarines with a rainbow 'crest' up the beak. http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/3/3b/Rainbow_Warriors_Original_Colours.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120130033744 they were on the cover of the plastic space marine box c. 1992. My memory tells me that they had the sides of the box illustrated with possible marine chapters and they were on it. If you go to Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness/Lost and the Damned, you'll find references to Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children and (a very different) Alpha Legion on one of the colour pages of StD and on the next, The Wordbearers (one word) The Black Legion The World Eaters and knornate Night Lords. Also mentioned are the Imperial Fists and the Whitescars (again, one word). They don't name the seven legions at Isstvan V but state only 5 marines survive. No Primarchs seem to exist. By LotD, Mortarion and the primarch Magnus the Red have been introduced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326903-2-missing-legions/#findComment-4542614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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