2 Missing Legions

[Jackalwolf]

Black Library did call out all their authors to stop doing unplanned references to the two missing legions, so don't take as canon anything published either since it did not align with the plans of the lore keepers so if the truth is ever revealed it might be contradictory.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Kinda hoped the 11th legion are active in the service of Malal and that the 2nd represented a mutant element that the Emperor could not allow to exist.

[Scyld Fireblade]

 

I was more naive back then. From my point of view, knowing it wasn't true - and, more importantly, knowing from the lore that it wasn't and couldn't possibly be true because we knew how the Ultramarines were that size already - coupled with the fact that it's a Word Bearer making a joke that even the protagonist of the novel basically ignores, it didn't occur to me that people would consider it "information".

 

Well, you are in the right company. Gav did the same with 'Angels of Darkness' and Astelan claiming that Jonson had deliberately not intervened earlier on terra to "see who would win". Arguably a much more severe issue (the loyalty of a Primarch), than the growth of the Ultramarines (which of course peeved me personally). And then there was of course Simon Spurrier, having a Heresy era Night Lord that hadn't really witnessed his own Legion's descent into Chaos later proclaim that their atrocities had been just as expected of them, and that the Emperor then underhandedly tried to destroy the Legion even before the betrayal.

I don't see the latter brought up any more, but the treacherous Jonson is referenced frequently.

 

I suppose the allegation that the missing Legions were absorbed by the Ultramarines is on the same level as the allegation that the Space Wolves had something to do with their desctruction. (Only the latter can be used by the Space Wolves to boast, while the former can be used to put down the Ultramarines...)

 

Except in Battle of the Fang the High Wolf Priest, when telling a mortal kaerl about Prospero and the Wolves sanctioning the Thousand Sons, says very seriously that the Wolves had done such a thing before. This suggests that at least one, though maybe both, of the missing legions were wiped out by the Wolves and Custodes. There may have been other legions there, but as the Executioners it was probably Russ and his sons who did most of the killing. Also, Skalpynock mentioned earlier that there had to have been others there, but what if the lost legion was only 10k or so strong at the time? 100k+ of Wolves shouldn't need help with that like they needed against 90K Thousand Sons psychers (which they had no psychic defense against on their own thanks to Nikea, the fluff in the new Prospero box confirms this). Another note, Russ and the Wolves did not choose to call themselves "executioners," nor did Malcador. In Wolf King it is confirmed that the Emperor called Russ that and gave him that role, forcing him to keep the VIth at Fenris instead of forging an empire like Guilliman did. The Emperor typically doesn't do things without a reason. I stated earlier in the thread why the 2 legions originally had no background (still trying to find my old RT and 2nd ed books to check quotes, though my own memory of this happening is very clear) but it is cool that GW and BL have made it a true piece of the fluff.

[Legatus]

Except in Battle of the Fang the High Wolf Priest, when telling a mortal kaerl about Prospero and the Wolves sanctioning the Thousand Sons, says very seriously that the Wolves had done such a thing before.

 

Wasn't it revealed in a later book that that had been refering to the Space Wolves taking on the World Eaters? But maybe I am misremembering.

 

 

Another note, Russ and the Wolves did not choose to call themselves "executioners," nor did Malcador. In Wolf King it is confirmed that the Emperor called Russ that and gave him that role, forcing him to keep the VIth at Fenris instead of forging an empire like Guilliman did.

 

I only browsed through that superficially, but to me it didn't look very definitively.

 

"Russ knew, right down in his gut, that the Wolves had been made the way they were for a reason, that none other could perform their blood-soaked function."

 

That doesn't exactly sound like it was explicitly mandated. More like Russ' personal conviction, his interpretation of what the Emperor would want from him. Much like how Lorgar had his own understanding of what the Emperor would want, even though he had not been ordered to do so.

But maybe there is another passage that is more explicit?

 

The book contains a few remarks that seem to imply that Russ wasn't that well informed on the efforts of the other Legions. ("The Space Wolves are second to none in brutality!", "No other Legion had it as hard as us!", "Who else but us would willingly destroy another Legion?", "Guilliman isn't doing much!") So perhaps his interpretation of the Space Wolves' role is not the most well founded. Unless I missed the part where it was excplicitly the Emperor who had made the Space Wolves his "executioners".

[Wayniac]

Well wait, does "sanction" necessarily mean wipe out a Legion?  Couldn't he have meant like they had to put down a specific group, like a squad or company or something that went rogue or decided that aliens were friendly?  Doesn't necessarily mean they had been called to full scale invade, because originally weren't they just supposed to go and arrest Magnus and bring him to Terra for trial?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well wait, does "sanction" necessarily mean wipe out a Legion?  Couldn't he have meant like they had to put down a specific group, like a squad or company or something that went rogue or decided that aliens were friendly?  Doesn't necessarily mean they had been called to full scale invade, because originally weren't they just supposed to go and arrest Magnus and bring him to Terra for trial?

Yeah, it was Horus who changed the battle plans to a full scale invasion.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it's quite significant the wolves could not successfully wipe out the kSons and some of their most powerful have endured.

[Runefyre]

I think it's quite significant the wolves could not successfully wipe out the kSons and some of their most powerful have endured.

Tzeentch had a little something to do with that....

[Scyld Fireblade]

 

I think it's quite significant the wolves could not successfully wipe out the kSons and some of their most powerful have endured.

Tzeentch had a little something to do with that....

 

Yeah, without Tzeentch Magnus and the Thousand Sons would have all died. Even with the intervention of Tzeentch most of them did not make it. Plus the Wolves hunted down all of their other outposts and fortresses.

[Scyld Fireblade]

 

Except in Battle of the Fang the High Wolf Priest, when telling a mortal kaerl about Prospero and the Wolves sanctioning the Thousand Sons, says very seriously that the Wolves had done such a thing before.

 

Wasn't it revealed in a later book that that had been refering to the Space Wolves taking on the World Eaters? But maybe I am misremembering.

 

 

Another note, Russ and the Wolves did not choose to call themselves "executioners," nor did Malcador. In Wolf King it is confirmed that the Emperor called Russ that and gave him that role, forcing him to keep the VIth at Fenris instead of forging an empire like Guilliman did.

 

I only browsed through that superficially, but to me it didn't look very definitively.

 

"Russ knew, right down in his gut, that the Wolves had been made the way they were for a reason, that none other could perform their blood-soaked function."

 

That doesn't exactly sound like it was explicitly mandated. More like Russ' personal conviction, his interpretation of what the Emperor would want from him. Much like how Lorgar had his own understanding of what the Emperor would want, even though he had not been ordered to do so.

But maybe there is another passage that is more explicit?

 

The book contains a few remarks that seem to imply that Russ wasn't that well informed on the efforts of the other Legions. ("The Space Wolves are second to none in brutality!", "No other Legion had it as hard as us!", "Who else but us would willingly destroy another Legion?", "Guilliman isn't doing much!") So perhaps his interpretation of the Space Wolves' role is not the most well founded. Unless I missed the part where it was excplicitly the Emperor who had made the Space Wolves his "executioners".

 

No, there is no reference to the Wolf Priest's comment having to do with the World Eaters. Besides the Wolves did not confront the World Eaters to sanction them. They went to teach Angron a lesson, which he promptly failed to learn. Not much left for the Wolf Priest to be referring to except the missing legions. I let a friend borrow Wolf King, but he is returning it to me tomorrow. I will post the quotes from it then. 

 

Not sure why you assume Russ is poorly informed, perhaps he is better informed. On the brutality, sure the Night Lords will terrorize and torture you, the World Eaters will messily kill you, but the Wolves go further than that. They wipe your entire existence away until there is no memory of you (perfect for removing failed legions). As for them having a harder time than anyone else, perhaps they did. If the wolves did destroy one or both of the missing legions then I think that qualifies as having a harder time than most. Just like the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion most of the Wolves' activities are not known to us. Just because those legions never sought open recognition of their accomplishments does not mean they were not just as accomplished as the others. Remember that Russ was found second, so it is very possible for him to have achieved more than anyone but Horus. If the deeds of the 2nd and 11th could be erased completely, it would be easy to keep the deeds of others shrouded in secrecy. Plus if the Wolves were used to remove the worst traitors and abominations then is makes sense that such things were secret. Russ does make it clear that the Executioner role was not meant to be purely against the other legions, he was the final sanction against any traitors that merited his attention in the eyes of the Emperor. As for willingness, no one expected so many of the legions to so easily turn on their own brothers. Finally, Russ never says that Guilliman didn't accomplish much. Russ devotes his complete attention to conquering worlds for the Emperor, and he wonders how much more Guilliman could accomplish if he did not divert some of his attention to things like writing books. He means simply that Guilliman could have done even more than he already had.

 

Just had the thought, what if one of the missing primarchs refused to fight in the Great Crusade? How would the Emperor have reacted to that? We saw how he responded to Lorgar moving too slowly.

[Kelborn]

*cough* Gwalchavad of the Wardens of Light was executed for being to peace loving * cough*

[bluntblade]

Sanction makes sense when you consider that the Wolves, unlike the World Eaters, have the capacity to restrain themselves if necessary

[Legatus]

 

 

Except in Battle of the Fang the High Wolf Priest, when telling a mortal kaerl about Prospero and the Wolves sanctioning the Thousand Sons, says very seriously that the Wolves had done such a thing before.

 

Wasn't it revealed in a later book that that had been refering to the Space Wolves taking on the World Eaters? But maybe I am misremembering.

 

No, there is no reference to the Wolf Priest's comment having to do with the World Eaters.

 

But was there reference to it having to do with the missing Legions?

 

 

Not sure why you assume Russ is poorly informed, perhaps he is better informed. On the brutality, sure the Night Lords will terrorize and torture you, the World Eaters will messily kill you, but the Wolves go further than that. They wipe your entire existence away until there is no memory of you (perfect for removing failed legions). As for them having a harder time than anyone else, perhaps they did. If the wolves did destroy one or both of the missing legions then I think that qualifies as having a harder time than most. Just like the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion most of the Wolves' activities are not known to us. Just because those legions never sought open recognition of their accomplishments does not mean they were not just as accomplished as the others. Remember that Russ was found second, so it is very possible for him to have achieved more than anyone but Horus. If the deeds of the 2nd and 11th could be erased completely, it would be easy to keep the deeds of others shrouded in secrecy. Plus if the Wolves were used to remove the worst traitors and abominations then is makes sense that such things were secret. Russ does make it clear that the Executioner role was not meant to be purely against the other legions, he was the final sanction against any traitors that merited his attention in the eyes of the Emperor. As for willingness, no one expected so many of the legions to so easily turn on their own brothers. Finally, Russ never says that Guilliman didn't accomplish much. Russ devotes his complete attention to conquering worlds for the Emperor, and he wonders how much more Guilliman could accomplish if he did not divert some of his attention to things like writing books. He means simply that Guilliman could have done even more than he already had.

 

 

Those are some of the things alluded to in 'Wolf King', sure. But they are not really in line with the rest of the 40K lore or even the rest of the HH lore. There were several Legions that were known for high attrition, such as the Iron Warriors, the Death Guard, or the Salamanders. The Space Wolves had not been described as such. They had generally been described as very active, but not really as secretive, so the notion that the really heavy stuff had just never been known before comes out of nowhere.

Two of the other Legions had also been openly chastised by the Emperor for their violent excesses. Guilliman was noted specifically to disapprove of the World Eaters' methods and was meant to have words with Angron, but then the Heresy broke out. On the other hand, Guiliman held Russ in higher regard, counting him as one of his "dauntless few" he could rely on in a campaign, which also means that he was familiar with the Space Wolves' exploits, or he wouldn't be able to make that judgement.

About the Space Wolves conquering worlds 'Wolf King' contains this line:

 

"The VI Legion had not taken many worlds, but the record of their encounters was second to none in brutality."

 

So it doesn't seem Russ was that devoted to conquering worlds. But when mentioning how the other Legions were not as taxed as the Space Wolves, he goes straight to the Legion that had conquered the most out of them all.

 

"‘Other Legions have not borne the brunt as we have. Others have forged their own kingdoms. They tell me Guilliman wrote a book. Maybe, with all that time on his hands, he might have seen this coming.’"

 

(As a side note, it is interesting that apparently here Guilliman had written the Codex Astartes near the end of the Great Crusade, whereas in other novels it is suggested that he drew it up during the Heresy. This account would be more in line with older lore.)

 

Then there is the idea that no other Legion would have been willing to destroy another if ordered so. But I have no doubt that the World Eaters or the Alpha Legion would have happily obliged if they had ordered to bring down the Thousand Sons. Probably the Night Lords and the Death Guard as well. The Iron Warriors even.

 

Several of the things claimed by Russ or other Space Wolves in that book just aren't in sync with the rest of the series. So it could either be that the author was not that aware of the broader lore, or that it was supposed to be the Space Wolves who were meant not to be. There is a remark at one point that the Wolves kept very little written record, and a spy has instead to rely on the automated recordings of their ship to get an overview over their campaigns. So if the Space Wolves do not make an effort to record their own campaigns that much, perhaps they are not that interested in the records of the other Legions either, leading to their somewhat distorted perception of who would be willing or capable to do what.

[bluntblade]

Guilliman probably wrote another book or two, if you want it to fit with your interpretation.

 

If we consider why Russ is chosen by the Emperor to sanction Magnus, it makes more sense. The World Eaters and Alpha Legion wouldn't be trusted enough for any others to surrender to their custody, and if Angron was annoyed enough, you're looking at exactly the kind of massacre Malcador didn't want.

 

Scars also mentions that the Wolves opted for the most arduous war zones, so that might be what Russ refers to.

 

Also, the Wolves have their skjalds and priests record their stories as word of mouth, so written records mostly won't exist

[MikhalLeNoir]

*cough* Gwalchavad of the Wardens of Light was executed for being to peace loving * cough*

and slaughtered by his own sons. Poor freak^^

[Hyperion]

Although we know that GW will never explain the Lost Legions, I did wonder whether the High Lords of the Heresy (Alan, Laurie and the authors) ever discussed what happened to them - because although they won't be directly discussed, the other Primarchs are all being fleshed out, and we do know they all knew/met the 2 missing Primarchs. That's a pretty significant aspect of the 18 Primarchs' world-view at the time of the Heresy, and could have influenced their decision-making, not least their view of the Emperor. (I asked this question at a HH weekender, and got the traditional boo from the audience, and traditionally evasive answer whenever the Lost Legions are brought up!).

 

From the tiny mentions we do have, we know:

- All the Primarchs were found, and they all knew each other.

- All the Primarchs know what happened to the 2 that are lost.

- Some of the 18 miss the missing 2 and wish they were still around.

- Sanguinius fears that his Legion will also be purged, due to the flaw.

- The 2 missing Legions suffered different fates, which could have been seen as a warning of the Heresy to come (Lightning Tower), but this didn't involve chaos, as this was still unknown at the end of the Great Crusade, and therefore took the Legions by surprise.

- For most Legions, fighting other Legionaries was so abhorrent it was an issue for censure just to consider, and certainly caused significant hesitation for many loyal Legionaries at the outbreak of the Heresy (I3 and I5, Calth).

 

As an aside, I rather liked ADB's 'slur' that the Ultras had absorbed the remaining Legionaries. Guilliman writing the Codex - a manual of standardised battle tactics - could have been a necessity, if he had been trying to blend Lost Legionaries into his own Legion without their previous battlecraft being obviously different.

 

There are scenarios that could be plausible for what happened, and here's my wild speculation. One of the Lost could have been corrupted, and then been seen as no longer Legionaries, so exterminating them wouldn't be the same as fighting other Legionaries. It can't be chaos, but Enslavers are a long-established part of the lore and fit the bill. From 40k we know that they can enslave marines, and can cause significant casualties, but they're also warp-related (so could be seen as foreshadowing of greater problems from the warp). There are various options for how this could have ended the Legion: they wiped themselves out (enslaved vs not), they were purged by another Legion (eg: Wolves), or their Primarch was enslaved and had to be taken down by his own Legion (who were then disbanded, sent on a suicidal crusade).

For the other Lost Legion, I speculate that their Primarch rebelled against the Emperor (also foreshadowing). If a Primarch was raised by a human colony that was living in coexistence with xenos, he might not share the Emperor's xenophobia. He is given control of his Legion, but at some point (or maybe consistently) refuses to attack certain xenos species. Again, this could play out as Legionaries taking down their own Primarch, or he was returned to Terra and put in stasis and the Legion sent on a suicidal penitent crusade, or they could have been banished beyond the outer rim.

 

tl;dr Enslavers and being a filthy xenos-lover did it!

[Legatus]

If we consider why Russ is chosen by the Emperor to sanction Magnus, it makes more sense. The World Eaters and Alpha Legion wouldn't be trusted enough for any others to surrender to their custody, and if Angron was annoyed enough, you're looking at exactly the kind of massacre Malcador didn't want.

 

How does that make sense if the Emperor considered the Space Wolves to be his "executioners", willing to take down another Legion, and "second to none in brutality"? How would Russ have been a much better choice to bring back Magnus alive than Angron or Alpharius if that were truly the case? Why not send a loyal Legion close to the Emperor that enjoys a certain status as "official emissary", such as the Imperial Fists or the Blood Angels, to carry out such a mission?

 

It makes more sense if the Emperor didn't consider the Space Wolves to be "executioners" to send them to bring back Magnus to answer for what he did. But Horus knew how the Space Wolves saw themselves, so it was easy for him to distort the order, convincing them that they were supposed to destroy the Thousand Sons instead.

 

As I mentioned before, it mirrors the story of Lorgar, who thought he knew what the Emperor expected of him, but it turned out that he was mistaken. He was convinced he did just what the Emperor wanted of him. Perhaps the same can be said of Curze. And now perhaps also of Russ.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

If we consider why Russ is chosen by the Emperor to sanction Magnus, it makes more sense. The World Eaters and Alpha Legion wouldn't be trusted enough for any others to surrender to their custody, and if Angron was annoyed enough, you're looking at exactly the kind of massacre Malcador didn't want.

How does that make sense if the Emperor considered the Space Wolves to be his "executioners", willing to take down another Legion, and "second to none in brutality"? How would Russ have been a much better choice to bring back Magnus alive than Angron or Alpharius if that were truly the case? Why not send a loyal Legion close to the Emperor that enjoys a certain status as "official emissary", such as the Imperial Fists or the Blood Angels, to carry out such a mission?

 

It makes more sense if the Emperor didn't consider the Space Wolves to be "executioners" to send them to bring back Magnus to answer for what he did. But Horus knew how the Space Wolves saw themselves, so it was easy for him to distort the order, convincing them that they were supposed to destroy the Thousand Sons instead.

 

As I mentioned before, it mirrors the story of Lorgar, who thought he knew what the Emperor expected of him, but it turned out that he was mistaken. He was convinced he did just what the Emperor wanted of him. Perhaps the same can be said of Curze. And now perhaps also of Russ.

Maybe the brits spell executor and executioner the same way and this is all just a big misunderstanding, like armor and the heathen no good tea drinking variant armour?

 

It would make it more plausible the wolves were his go to legion for carrying out his will and disbursing estate assets of imperial officials after their funeral.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Of course we could be taking the wrong view, perhaps the Emperor was angry enough to send the Space Wolves with orders to bring Magnus in but didn't care what happened to the XV Legion and Prospero. Maybe he wanted Prospero to be burned by the 'brutality' of the Space Wolves for having his webway broken so that Magnus could feel what it was like to lose something important to him and expected the Legio Custodes to ensure that Russ was on a leash to keep him from killing Magnus and actually returning him per the order should Russ let his own battle furry cloud his judgement.

[bluntblade]

Ironically, Valdor helped tip Russ towards a course of full destruction. Magnus' comments in Battle of the Fang tell us that Russ was miserable about fighting his brother.

[Kelborn]

IMHO I believe that

Big E sent Russ to take Magnus into custody. Not as an executioner, rather as an executor.

Horus tried to deceive Russ.

Valdor just took the opportunity to get rid of a rival/ enemy / whatever.

 

Russ was deceived / convinced to attack Prospero.

 

The only question that remains (for me) is how would the Emperor react if Russ returns to Terra. Though I've heard that Russ indeed returns to Terra, I don't think that he and his father had the chance to talk about Magnus. That means that Russ might never found out that he was a mere pawn for Horus. Or does he know? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[bluntblade]

Also, Malcador "wanted Magnus censured, not destroyed."

[okonomiyakimarine]

 

Well wait, does "sanction" necessarily mean wipe out a Legion?  Couldn't he have meant like they had to put down a specific group, like a squad or company or something that went rogue or decided that aliens were friendly?  Doesn't necessarily mean they had been called to full scale invade, because originally weren't they just supposed to go and arrest Magnus and bring him to Terra for trial?

Yeah, it was Horus who changed the battle plans to a full scale invasion.

 

Magnus was "undecided" or not (consciously) fully committed to either "side" for several more years. Also one needs to realize that the emperor's dogs as well as magic wielding KSons were both powerful legions one would not want to have in the opposition, or at least not at full strength. So a full attack from the wolves into Tizca would significantly harm both legions no matter the outcome. Big win for the warmaster and the god of change.

[Scyld Fireblade]

IMHO I believe that

Big E sent Russ to take Magnus into custody. Not as an executioner, rather as an executor.

Horus tried to deceive Russ.

Valdor just took the opportunity to get rid of a rival/ enemy / whatever.

 

Russ was deceived / convinced to attack Prospero.

 

The only question that remains (for me) is how would the Emperor react if Russ returns to Terra. Though I've heard that Russ indeed returns to Terra, I don't think that he and his father had the chance to talk about Magnus. That means that Russ might never found out that he was a mere pawn for Horus. Or does he know? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Russ does return to Terra and meet with Malcador and Dorn. He does know the truth by that point, in fact he has already learned that both Horus and Valdor lied to him before the battle of Alaaxes starts. Plus one of my favorite scenes is Russ playing chess with Malcador and winning.

 

 

If we consider why Russ is chosen by the Emperor to sanction Magnus, it makes more sense. The World Eaters and Alpha Legion wouldn't be trusted enough for any others to surrender to their custody, and if Angron was annoyed enough, you're looking at exactly the kind of massacre Malcador didn't want.

 

How does that make sense if the Emperor considered the Space Wolves to be his "executioners", willing to take down another Legion, and "second to none in brutality"? How would Russ have been a much better choice to bring back Magnus alive than Angron or Alpharius if that were truly the case? Why not send a loyal Legion close to the Emperor that enjoys a certain status as "official emissary", such as the Imperial Fists or the Blood Angels, to carry out such a mission?

 

It makes more sense if the Emperor didn't consider the Space Wolves to be "executioners" to send them to bring back Magnus to answer for what he did. But Horus knew how the Space Wolves saw themselves, so it was easy for him to distort the order, convincing them that they were supposed to destroy the Thousand Sons instead.

 

As I mentioned before, it mirrors the story of Lorgar, who thought he knew what the Emperor expected of him, but it turned out that he was mistaken. He was convinced he did just what the Emperor wanted of him. Perhaps the same can be said of Curze. And now perhaps also of Russ.

 

Russ and the wolves are brutal, but in a cunning and calculated way. Angron has no true control, Alpharius is not trustworthy or respected, Dorn and Sanguinius could not be guaranteed to fight Magnus or any other primarch if they resisted.

 

"He did just what the Allfather had told him - he became the weapon of last resort, the most faithful, the prosecutor of dirty wars." It was not the idea of Russ and the Wolves, the Emperor made them that and told them to be that, his executioners. Sorry if you do not like it.

 

Russ is the one who decides his legion need to no longer be the executioners. He decides they can no longer be "the feared, the killers." "the galaxy learned terror from them"

 

 

 

 

Except in Battle of the Fang the High Wolf Priest, when telling a mortal kaerl about Prospero and the Wolves sanctioning the Thousand Sons, says very seriously that the Wolves had done such a thing before.

 

Wasn't it revealed in a later book that that had been refering to the Space Wolves taking on the World Eaters? But maybe I am misremembering.

 

No, there is no reference to the Wolf Priest's comment having to do with the World Eaters.

 

But was there reference to it having to do with the missing Legions?

 

 

Not sure why you assume Russ is poorly informed, perhaps he is better informed. On the brutality, sure the Night Lords will terrorize and torture you, the World Eaters will messily kill you, but the Wolves go further than that. They wipe your entire existence away until there is no memory of you (perfect for removing failed legions). As for them having a harder time than anyone else, perhaps they did. If the wolves did destroy one or both of the missing legions then I think that qualifies as having a harder time than most. Just like the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion most of the Wolves' activities are not known to us. Just because those legions never sought open recognition of their accomplishments does not mean they were not just as accomplished as the others. Remember that Russ was found second, so it is very possible for him to have achieved more than anyone but Horus. If the deeds of the 2nd and 11th could be erased completely, it would be easy to keep the deeds of others shrouded in secrecy. Plus if the Wolves were used to remove the worst traitors and abominations then is makes sense that such things were secret. Russ does make it clear that the Executioner role was not meant to be purely against the other legions, he was the final sanction against any traitors that merited his attention in the eyes of the Emperor. As for willingness, no one expected so many of the legions to so easily turn on their own brothers. Finally, Russ never says that Guilliman didn't accomplish much. Russ devotes his complete attention to conquering worlds for the Emperor, and he wonders how much more Guilliman could accomplish if he did not divert some of his attention to things like writing books. He means simply that Guilliman could have done even more than he already had.

 

 

Those are some of the things alluded to in 'Wolf King', sure. But they are not really in line with the rest of the 40K lore or even the rest of the HH lore. There were several Legions that were known for high attrition, such as the Iron Warriors, the Death Guard, or the Salamanders. The Space Wolves had not been described as such. They had generally been described as very active, but not really as secretive, so the notion that the really heavy stuff had just never been known before comes out of nowhere.

Two of the other Legions had also been openly chastised by the Emperor for their violent excesses. Guilliman was noted specifically to disapprove of the World Eaters' methods and was meant to have words with Angron, but then the Heresy broke out. On the other hand, Guiliman held Russ in higher regard, counting him as one of his "dauntless few" he could rely on in a campaign, which also means that he was familiar with the Space Wolves' exploits, or he wouldn't be able to make that judgement.

About the Space Wolves conquering worlds 'Wolf King' contains this line:

 

"The VI Legion had not taken many worlds, but the record of their encounters was second to none in brutality."

 

So it doesn't seem Russ was that devoted to conquering worlds. But when mentioning how the other Legions were not as taxed as the Space Wolves, he goes straight to the Legion that had conquered the most out of them all.

 

"‘Other Legions have not borne the brunt as we have. Others have forged their own kingdoms. They tell me Guilliman wrote a book. Maybe, with all that time on his hands, he might have seen this coming.’"

 

(As a side note, it is interesting that apparently here Guilliman had written the Codex Astartes near the end of the Great Crusade, whereas in other novels it is suggested that he drew it up during the Heresy. This account would be more in line with older lore.)

 

Then there is the idea that no other Legion would have been willing to destroy another if ordered so. But I have no doubt that the World Eaters or the Alpha Legion would have happily obliged if they had ordered to bring down the Thousand Sons. Probably the Night Lords and the Death Guard as well. The Iron Warriors even.

 

Several of the things claimed by Russ or other Space Wolves in that book just aren't in sync with the rest of the series. So it could either be that the author was not that aware of the broader lore, or that it was supposed to be the Space Wolves who were meant not to be. There is a remark at one point that the Wolves kept very little written record, and a spy has instead to rely on the automated recordings of their ship to get an overview over their campaigns. So if the Space Wolves do not make an effort to record their own campaigns that much, perhaps they are not that interested in the records of the other Legions either, leading to their somewhat distorted perception of who would be willing or capable to do what.

 

Since none of the named legions other than the Thousand Sons were ever sanctioned, by default the reference is to the two missing legions (or at least one of them, no way to tell if it was both or not). Not sure why you are so resistant to the possibility of the Wolves having destroyed the legion referred to as the "purged".

 

In what way are any of the things Russ says in Wolf King "out of line" with the lore of 40k and the Heresy? The Wolves having a tough time does not necessarily mean attrition, which you have assumed, they volunteered for the toughest assignments and fought the "dirty" wars that the others would not. Yes they were 'very' active, Russ was fully devoted to conquering worlds for the Emperor, but no where else does it say they were not sercretive about their tasks. So far in the lore we actually know little more about the Wolves in the Great Crusade than we do about the 2 missing legions. Just because Guilliman knows what Russ and the Wolves are capable of does not mean he knows of all their wars, you are making another assumption.

 

I cannot find the first quote you use despite re-reading most of Wolf King. Please provide a page number. 

 

Yes Guilliman had written a codex, but not the one we know. There is and audio short that explains how he decides to re-write the codex with the chapter level tactics used in 40k.

 

You are making an assumption about the others, and one based in hindsight at that. Remember that the loyal primarchs are shocked by their brothers and their legions turning on them and astartes fighting astartes. The only legion no one seems surprised to see willingly battling other marines is the Wolves, likely because of past actions possibly against the missing legions. As for Angron and the World Eaters, remember that the Emperor did not intend or want them to be using the Butcher's Nails. Who knows what they would have been like without those.

 

Every primarch is going to have a different perspective on things and different knowledge, just like real people. What do you think is not in sync? You claim the Wolves have a "distorted" perception, but you do not back that claim up. Just because you do not like how this book expands and details the fluff does not mean that the Wolves and Russ are simply wrong. Assuming that the Space Wolves are just ignorant smacks of serious bias on your part.

 

Claiming that Chris Wraight is not familiar with the lore, especially regarding the Space Wolves, is ridiculous. Even more so because we was backed up by A-D-B, John French, Nick Kyme, and Laurie Goulding. If you just did not like the novel then admit it. Don't attempt to declare it not correct lore, because it is too late for that.

 

The whole point of this thread is to talk about the two missing legions. The only part of this that is truly relevant to that is the fact that it is very likely Russ and the Space Wolves destroyed at least one of those 2 legions.

[Marshal Rohr]

To say it's very likely the wolves destroyed one of the missing legions isn't exactly the case. Its understandable people might believe the wolves so fearsome they must have been unleashed on them but it's still just conjecture. It could be just as likely the custodes did it or the legions burned out on their own. The actual most likely scenario is that the missing legions were actually defeated by outside actors given the historical incident they are based on.