Leman Russ, The Great Wolf by Chris Wraight (LE)

[Leif Bearclaw]

So they completely retcon the 13th? How very sad.

[R_F_D]

In what way?  Not up to speed on the 40k developments so can only comment on the 30k that I have read.

[Legatus]

 

Chapter 4

Dulan landfall

Attack goes according to plan until signal picked up of kidnapped 13th, Jarl diverts some forces to rescue them. This impacts on Wolves attack which is noted by the Lion, he resolves to give Russ time. Russ notes absence of Jarl and proceeds to divert his forces

13th reach captured member who has succumbed to the Curse. 13th fall into essentially a media sting as their rescue of the Wulfen is broadcast planet wide and they’re ambushed.

The Lion runs out of patience whilst Russ leads the rescue of the 13th, the Lion then teleports directly to the throneroom.

Russ confronts Jarl over the Curse of the Wulfen before being informed of Angels teleportation.

The Lion and the Tyrant converse before Lion beheads the Tyrant.

Russ storms in after and the ensuing well known argument/duel/gutter brawl ensues. Both pretty matched, Russ then gains upper hand but then realises the ridiculous nature of their fight and starts laughing. Lion interprets that as Russ conceding and when Russ doesn’t answer, knocks him out.

 

 

 

So, that sounds like the story about how the feud between the two Chappters started as told by the Space Wolves in M41 is incorrect, then.

[bluntblade]

Hang on. One of Russ's Jarls is called Jarl? Then again, there is at least one guy called Ogvai Ogvai Somethingsbard

[R_F_D]

Nope; that was a result me being quick, apologies. The Jarl of the 13th is called Jorin Bloodhowl.

[aa.logan]

Nope; that was a result me being quick, apologies. The Jarl of the 13th is called Jorin Bloodhowl.

And every time I read his name, I read it as 'BloodBowl', which was quite disconcerting.

 

Loved the book, though.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Stay on the topic of the novel

[Guest]

 

 

Chapter 4

Dulan landfall

Attack goes according to plan until signal picked up of kidnapped 13th, Jarl diverts some forces to rescue them. This impacts on Wolves attack which is noted by the Lion, he resolves to give Russ time. Russ notes absence of Jarl and proceeds to divert his forces

13th reach captured member who has succumbed to the Curse. 13th fall into essentially a media sting as their rescue of the Wulfen is broadcast planet wide and they’re ambushed.

The Lion runs out of patience whilst Russ leads the rescue of the 13th, the Lion then teleports directly to the throneroom.

Russ confronts Jarl over the Curse of the Wulfen before being informed of Angels teleportation.

The Lion and the Tyrant converse before Lion beheads the Tyrant.

Russ storms in after and the ensuing well known argument/duel/gutter brawl ensues. Both pretty matched, Russ then gains upper hand but then realises the ridiculous nature of their fight and starts laughing. Lion interprets that as Russ conceding and when Russ doesn’t answer, knocks him out.

 

 

 

 

So, that sounds like the story about how the feud between the two Chappters started as told by the Space Wolves in M41 is incorrect, then.

Sounds pretty spot on from what the m41 SW tell.

 

 

Lion killed the target russ had swore to kill. Russ gets mad and attacks Lion. They fight, Russ gets upperhand, Russ laughs how stupid it all is. Lion knocks him out.

 

 

Dont see how it is mucb different.

[Azoriel]

The 3rd Edition codices gave a more simple (less nuianced) version of events.

The 3rd Edition Space Wolf codex said that the Dark Angels and Space Wolves were both jointly tasked with Dulan, but the Dark Angels suddenly abandoned their positions to conduct their own battle plan, which left the Space Wolves open on one flank and resulted in them taking heavy casualties.  Leman Russ was therefore (according to this version of events) angry with the Lion over the deaths of his men.

 

The 3rd Edition Dark Angels codex said that the Dark Angels and Space Wolves were both jointly tasked with Dulan, but the Leman Russ insisted on being allowed to take the Tyrant's fortress head-on (and presumably relegating the Dark Angels to a support role).  The Lion had already established a superior plan of attack, and was not going to yield this merely for Russ' vanity.  Leman Russ was thereforge (according to this version of events) angry with the Lion for being denied the honor of slaying the Tyrant.

The different tellings of this same event were seemingly intended to both technically be true, albeit each from their own point of view.  This new retelling of events seems to lean closer to the Dark Angels version of the story.  (I'd hardly call it a complete retcon though - presuming the earlier poster was referring to this, and not some other piece of information, like the 13th having been implanted as adults.)

[Legatus]

The different tellings of this same event were seemingly intended to both technically be true, albeit each from their own point of view.  This new retelling of events seems to lean closer to the Dark Angels version of the story.

 

Precisely. From what I can gather from the brief summary provided earlier here, it seems that the Dark Angels' account of how their animosity began is closer to the truth. It does not seem to be 100% accurate either (the summary provided above does not go into detail why Russ was angry exactly), but it is perhaps understandable why they left out the Wulfen business. They either were not aware or they intentionally left it out to be discrete about this delicate issue.

 

The Wolves' account on the other hand, that the Dark Angels just acted selfishly and left the Space Wolves open to attack, seems to be completely made up, when it was they who were complicating the events. This is all the more damning as we here have Leman Russ himself telling what actually happened, but the Space Wolves Chapter will then go on and blame it on the Dark Angels anyway.

 

But then I only read that brief summary, perhaps it left out some crucial nuance, and the Dark Angels are somehow indeed carrying a bit more of the blame.

[Augustus]

Nope. The Lion shows considerable restraint in giving Russ time to claim "his prize" he only moves in cause his own troops start taking losses, he is unable to reach Russ, and the wolfen being broadcasted for everyone to see. The Lion orders all evidence of the wolfen deleted and silences his men.

 

Does the third edition space wolf codex actually give that story? I thought that it was in a newer codex.

[Legatus]

The Space Wolves' take on that story was first given in the 2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves on page 8. It was repeated in the 5th Edition Codex Space Wolves on page 91, in the 7th Edition Codex in the 'The Great Companies' section and in the 7.5 Codex on page 20.

 

It sounds like according to this book the Space Wolves have since then unjustly blamed the Dark Angels, when the latter had in reality been quite accommodating.

[Azoriel]

Nope. The Lion shows considerable restraint in giving Russ time to claim "his prize" he only moves in cause his own troops start taking losses, he is unable to reach Russ, and the wolfen being broadcasted for everyone to see. The Lion orders all evidence of the wolfen deleted and silences his men.

Does the third edition space wolf codex actually give that story? I thought that it was in a newer codex.

Ends up I was mistaken about it being the 3rd edition codices; it's actually even older than that -

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323329-the-lion-and-the-wolf/

And from the perspective of the Dark Angels (Codex Angels of Death - 2nd Edition):

Russ, ever headstrong, felt that he should lead the assault. Durath had claimed that Russ was the Emperor's puppy and that he would feed Russ's heart to his pet grox. The Lord of Fenris was enraged and determined to wipe out this stain on his honour. He swore a mighty oath that he would personally slay Durath and cut out his heart. So angry was he that he ordered Jonson to stand down and let the Space Wolves attack the Crimson Fortress headlong. Jonson, who had spent days laying plans for his assault, and who had personally scouted out all its weak points, ignored this command and began the assault. The Dark Angels stormed the mighty citadel and Jonson killed Durath in single combat on the keep's walls. Russ, caught in the swirling melee at the foot of the battlements, could only look on and howl with frustrated rage.

In all fairness to the Space Wolves, the version we get in 40K has had 10K years to mature, and I suspect the Space Wolves to be more reliant on an oral tradition than the Dark Angels. Furthermore, there are no doubt mysterious blank spots in history (like the Lion ordering all record of the Wulfen be purged) that must be filled in after the fact by future generations through inference and deduction - would it not be unreasonable for outsiders to assume the Dark Angels of 30K would be as aloof as the Dark Angels of 40K, infamous for abandoning their allies suddenly and without warning?

(Ninjaed by Legatus)

[Leif Bearclaw]

In what way? Not up to speed on the 40k developments so can only comment on the 30k that I have read.

The entire origin of the 13th here is a retcon. There's never been any mention of the adult Astartes being dumped into the 13th. Why were these adult-upgraded Wolves segregated? The 13th was where the Wulfen marked were concentrated, yet now it seems we have 'oh it's totally coincidence that the 13th developed the Curse'. And then there's the date, Dulan is what, 30 ish years before the Heresy. And this is the first time any of the Wolves have encountered the Wulfen curse? So for most of the GC there's no problem, yet just when it can be most inconvenient and make inter Legion relations awkward, that's when it starts up? Sorry, but that just sounds like the worst kinds of nonsense.

And yeah, this story just seems to make the Wolves look like cretinous chumps. Again.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

In what way? Not up to speed on the 40k developments so can only comment on the 30k that I have read.

The entire origin of the 13th here is a retcon. There's never been any mention of the adult Astartes being dumped into the 13th. Why were these adult-upgraded Wolves segregated? The 13th was where the Wulfen marked were concentrated, yet now it seems we have 'oh it's totally coincidence that the 13th developed the Curse'. And then there's the date, Dulan is what, 30 ish years before the Heresy. And this is the first time any of the Wolves have encountered the Wulfen curse? So for most of the GC there's no problem, yet just when it can be most inconvenient and make inter Legion relations awkward, that's when it starts up? Sorry, but that just sounds like the worst kinds of nonsense.

And yeah, this story just seems to make the Wolves look like cretinous chumps. Again.

Lets wait to read the book before coming to assumption.

[Scribe]

Yeah, wonder if that's just who they are and it's only with some humbling they change?

[Augustus]

Yeah. It is even worse because the Wolves do exactly what they will come to accuse the Dark Angels of when -they-, in a way, break ranks by rushing headlong into battle and cause the death of 10 squads of Dark Angels.

Thanks for the info. I had only the 3rd edition dex.

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Hey folks, sorry if it has been covered above, when will this be out for general release/ebook version?

[Augustus]

I don't know, actually. But you might be able to compare it to the release of Roboute Guilliman: Lord of Ultramar.  

[Roomsky]

Hey folks, sorry if it has been covered above, when will this be out for general release/ebook version?

 

Ebook: No idea.

 

Hardcover general release: January, listed on amazon for the 24th.

[DarkChaplain]

It has been listed on BL's coming soon section for a few weeks now. January release, depending on the release day (yet to be added to the storepage, either the 7th, 14th, 21st or 28th), the ebook might be out as early as december 31st, or as late as the 21st.

 

Amazon releases are regularly weeks later than the GW/BL release, so I'd put the hardback up the for an early release on the 7th.

[Sandlemad]

The 13th company being set up around Russ's own Fenrisian shieldbrothers isn't new, it goes back to Wolf at the Door in Tales of Heresy, came out a good seven years ago and two years before Prospero Burns. Hundreds of warriors, all well past their teens, demanded they be accepted for implementation. Forty survived, under Bulvye, and formed the core of the 13th company. Perfectly plausible that as the first Fenrisian recruits to the legion, and ones whose age may already have brought irregularities to the transformation process, they manifested the wulfen curse.

Gotta say, I really like the idea of Russ looking at Caliban and calling its inhabitants barbarians. Think of what Curze said in Savage Weapons, about how he felt the Lion was the only other primarch to grow up in complete savagery. Russ may have been raised by wolves but at least he was actually raised. The Lion/Russ interactions are what I'm most looking forward to here.

[Augustus]

But I believe the 13th is now also full of the Terran space wolves. I'll have to check my copy to confirm that,  but I believe the 13th is shrinking as the last Terrans die out. I could be completely misremembering, however.

[HeritorA]

R_F_D thank you Sir! And look at this awesome picture

http://i.imgur.com/zz41mC3.jpg

Wow - just wow. Well done :)

I see that Chris tries to balance the outcome of the duel for the sake of rabid fanboys on both sides hehe

Of course he does - after all if he hasn't - the puppies fans would have eaten him alive...

It's easy to forget that ultimately Angron is a Primarch and vastly more intelligent than everyone ... despite (sometimes) being a frothing madman.

This....... ;)

Chapter 4

Dulan landfall

Attack goes according to plan until signal picked up of kidnapped 13th, Jarl diverts some forces to rescue them. This impacts on Wolves attack which is noted by the Lion, he resolves to give Russ time. Russ notes absence of Jarl and proceeds to divert his forces

13th reach captured member who has succumbed to the Curse. 13th fall into essentially a media sting as their rescue of the Wulfen is broadcast planet wide and they’re ambushed.

The Lion runs out of patience whilst Russ leads the rescue of the 13th, the Lion then teleports directly to the throneroom.

Russ confronts Jarl over the Curse of the Wulfen before being informed of Angels teleportation.

The Lion and the Tyrant converse before Lion beheads the Tyrant.

Russ storms in after and the ensuing well known argument/duel/gutter brawl ensues. Both pretty matched, Russ then gains upper hand but then realises the ridiculous nature of their fight and starts laughing. Lion interprets that as Russ conceding and when Russ doesn’t answer, knocks him out.

So, that sounds like the story about how the feud between the two Chappters started as told by the Space Wolves in M41 is incorrect, then.

Sounds pretty spot on from what the m41 SW tell.

Lion killed the target russ had swore to kill. Russ gets mad and attacks Lion. They fight, Russ gets upperhand, Russ laughs how stupid it all is. Lion knocks him out.

Dont see how it is mucb different.

Of course alpha space puppy got the upper hand - if he hasn't the doggies would have howled all the way to the moon :)

[HeritorA]

In what way? Not up to speed on the 40k developments so can only comment on the 30k that I have read.

The entire origin of the 13th here is a retcon. There's never been any mention of the adult Astartes being dumped into the 13th. Why were these adult-upgraded Wolves segregated? The 13th was where the Wulfen marked were concentrated, yet now it seems we have 'oh it's totally coincidence that the 13th developed the Curse'. And then there's the date, Dulan is what, 30 ish years before the Heresy. And this is the first time any of the Wolves have encountered the Wulfen curse? So for most of the GC there's no problem, yet just when it can be most inconvenient and make inter Legion relations awkward, that's when it starts up? Sorry, but that just sounds like the worst kinds of nonsense.

And yeah, this story just seems to make the Wolves look like cretinous chumps. Again.

Lets wait to read the book before coming to assumption.

Hm - you did not deleted his post through