How has Dante resisted Black Rage for 4000 years..

[appiah4]

..when even chaplains with their zeal and librarians with all thei psychic training cant to the point it sounds like an eventuality rather than a possibility? He is basically immune to it apparently, why dont the Sanguinary Brotherhood seek tgr cure here?

[Leonaides]

No one knows. My personal idea is that marines who fall to the rage are the ones whos geneseed line has cone from danguinius after he was killed, while the ones who dont fall are from marines who had theirs implanted while he was alive. In effect, the ones who come from his dead flesh get a full psychic dose of the killing while the ones descended from marines at the time get a slightly watered down version of its effects. Thus a sufficiently strongwilled marine with the right geneline can resist but if he had the wrong geneline he would be doomed no matter what.

[WarriorFish]

I agree with Leonaides, the geneseed origin is probably a good theory to start with. Plus if you're dealing with will power and such Dante is one of the greatest Space Marines and if enough Marines couldn't resist the Blood Angels would have long been destroyed. Tycho already fills the trope of a hero struggling with darkness, so Dante can be the one who stands for hope :)

[CaptainHelion]

Also, 4000 years is far beyond what Dante's survived. 1500 years is about what I estimate. Still remarkable, and your point about "How has he done that? HOW?" still stands.

All I could add is Pure Force of Will.

[Charlo]

He's a child of prophecy I bet.

[Spagunk]

It's 'cause he received Sanguinor's powdered toast wink!

[Lasuria]

Also I think that not that many Blood Angels actually fall to the black rage. I think it is greatly exaggerated how many marines fall prey to the black rage in the books. The authors seems to forget that first : it is a secret and second that having so much losses would have probably seen the chapter extinct a long time ago ... 

 

So longevity aside I'm pretty sure that Dante is not that much an exception for the BA. 

[Nomus Sardauk]

Also, 4000 years is far beyond what Dante's survived. 1500 years is about what I estimate.

If I recall correctly he's stated to be roughly 1100 years old.

[Lasuria]

 

Also, 4000 years is far beyond what Dante's survived. 1500 years is about what I estimate.

If I recall correctly he's stated to be roughly 1100 years old.

 

I think it is said in the codex that he has acted as Chapter Commander for roughly 1100 years. And it is suspected that he was around 400 years old when he assumed that position.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

Also, 4000 years is far beyond what Dante's survived. 1500 years is about what I estimate.

If I recall correctly he's stated to be roughly 1100 years old.

I think it is said in the codex that he has acted as Chapter Commander for roughly 1100 years. And it is suspected that he was around 400 years old when he assumed that position.

Correct, Chapter Master for 1100 years, the warlords of the dark millennium book doesn't give any detail on how long he spent before becoming a captain and eventually chapter master, it does note that he didn't have a uniquely impressive captaincy or anything else and more that he became chapter master out of necessity but has been exemplary in that role which is pretty cool.

[CaptainHelion]

Based on the documents I have access to, I'm fairly confident that roughly 1500 years is accurate for Dante's age.

The 2nd Ed Angels of Death Codex states that "the current Commander of the Chapter, Dante, has lived for nearly 1,100 years", but then later describes Dante as "the most experienced and able~leader of any Space Marine Chapter. Due to the longevity of the Blood Angels he has ruled the Chapter for over 1,100 years!" and that "he has ruled the Chapter for over 1,100 years!", so the first statement can be reasonably regarded as a mistake. We're looking at at least 1100 years of service as Chapter Master/Commander.

The 5th Ed Blood Angels codex doesn't give any time spans, but does mention that "Captain Lysander of the Imperial Fists, who was lost in the eddies and tides of Warpspace for a thousand years, cannot recall a time when Dante did not reign supreme over the Blood Angels.".

The 7th Ed Blood Angels Codex states that he has "fought in campaigns on worlds beyond counting for over a thousand years.", but again doesn't give a specific time span. No problem, as it still fits in with all the other sources.

The Warlords of the Dark Millennium - Dante ebook is probably the best recent source we have. As Blindhamster rightly points out, that it doesn't give any specific time spans, but does say that "Dante has reigned for over a thousand years as Chapter Master, and served the Blood Angels for several hundred years before ascending to the rank of Commander". This gives us a reign that matches up with earlier statements, and suggests at least 2-300 years of service prior. It later states that "Dante’s face is a monument to one and a half thousand years of bloodshed and battle".

While obviously a bit of poetic license is at play here, it can, I feel, be reasonably assumed that Dante is fairly close to 1500 or so, based on these statements.

[appiah4]

Ok, so 4k years was quite an exaggeration.  But still, 1500 years and no sign of the Black Rage while entire companies can fall to it with some warp sorcery from across space..  It doesn't add up.

[Lasuria]

As I said earlier I truly believe that most books exaggerate the numbers of BA falling to the black rage for the dramatic effect.

What doesn't add up for me is having a flaw running for 10.000 years inside a 1.000 men chapter with those men apparently falling by the dozens to the black rage at each battles. Either the BA (and successors) recruit by the hundreds (and we know they don't) or we participate to a very little number of battles (and we know that it's really the opposite) or the books are inaccurate at best.

Chose your pick

[Arkaniss]

I think the issue here is that the gene seed defect is a well known thing with the Blood Angels, anyone who plays 40K knows about it. It's a unique thing for them and so it's a well visited and commented upon aspect in the fluff - stories are told of epic battles and tragic losses and of course the Red Thirst and Black Rage feature, being unique fancy Blood Angel things. The problem is that that's its so prevalent in our out of universe fluff and storytelling (and even gameplay!) that we perhaps give it too much focus.

 

As mentioned already in this thread it's not as common as we think, otherwise the Blood Angels would have died out not long after the heresy. Even so, to add my viewpoint on the original question: maybe Dante is heroically strong willed and has resisted any slips towards the rage, or maybe he's a lucky one and has escaped the touch? Maybe some BA marines just never have it? Others are not so lucky and will eventually succumb as the centuries roll by and it becomes hard and harder to come back from the edge of falling to the rage completely?

 

It's never been categorically stated one way or another I believe but I do find it interesting to ponder. What if you suffer from from the get-go as a Scout? Knowing throughout your service that eventually it will get you and one time you won't be able to resist. Or maybe you never have the problem? Do you consider yourself lucky or are you worried for a different reason, that maybe it's just not got you yet and when it does come you will be unable to resist as you're not used to battling it?

[SM1981]

The Death Watch 2: Bad Blood book addresses that exact train of thought Arkaniss (if you fancy a little read of black rage related fluff).

[Indefragable]

Dante is too badass to fall to the rage.

Or maybe he's just too old for that

My short answer: I think he's good at recognizing its symptoms and resisting it. And he's had more than 1100 years of practice, which only makes him that much more resilient to its effects. Personally, I think "some have bad genes, some have good" a bit too simplistic for me. I like to think that BA often feel the urge to "hulk out" with the Black Rage, but they know that its a slippery slope that has no return. I picture Luke vs Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ, where that lil bit of Dark Side energy turned him up to 11. The Rage is like that, but you are "infected" once you tap into it and the desire to do so can become almost overwhelming. That's why BA start in the Assault squads: to observe who can hold back and resist and those who just give in.

Dante is one of my favorite characters, in part because he knows there's nothing special about himself. He didn't carve his name into the heart of a daemon primarch at age 11 or anything ridiculous like that....he just has seen everything the universe has thrown at him, bested it, and kept his wits about him. He knows that he is as much a symbol as he is a warrior and leader. So he probably considers it even more important to never give in, to show everyone else it's possible and important.

[Charlo]

Dante is too badass to fall to the rage.

Or maybe he's just too old for that

My short answer: I think he's good at recognizing its symptoms and resisting it. And he's had more than 1100 years of practice, which only makes him that much more resilient to its effects. Personally, I think "some have bad genes, some have good" a bit too simplistic for me. I like to think that BA often feel the urge to "hulk out" with the Black Rage, but they know that its a slippery slope that has no return. I picture Luke vs Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ, where that lil bit of Dark Side energy turned him up to 11. The Rage is like that, but you are "infected" once you tap into it and the desire to do so can become almost overwhelming. That's why BA start in the Assault squads: to observe who can hold back and resist and those who just give in.

Dante is one of my favorite characters, in part because he knows there's nothing special about himself. He didn't carve his name into the heart of a daemon primarch at age 11 or anything ridiculous like that....he just has seen everything the universe has thrown at him, bested it, and kept his wits about him. He knows that he is as much a symbol as he is a warrior and leader. So he probably considers it even more important to never give in, to show everyone else it's possible and important.

+1

He's a badass by hard work and his accomplishments.

Not because he's painted blue with TWO POWER FISTS AND IN BUILT AP2 BOLTERS AND PUNCHED AN AVATAR TO DEAD.

Man, and people call us not subtle....

[Arkaniss]

The Death Watch 2: Bad Blood book addresses that exact train of thought Arkaniss (if you fancy a little read of black rage related fluff).

I've not read a Black Library book for a very long time but I may try and get this one, I'll certainly be interested to find out more about it!

[SM1981]

It's a 35 page short e-story / book. The writing (as with most BA books) is OK but not great. The only selling point in this context is it focuses on a marine who spends some time pondering exactly the above (in between putting his chainsword through things).

[Xenith]

Trial by blood has some pondering by Seth on the topic of Dante. Well worth a read.

 

I think it hints there that Dante never removes his mask...

 

It might be that, like Bruce Banner, he is always angry. He just has supreme control over it.

[SM1981]

It's because beneath the mask he is actually a Necron "Silent King" utilising his favourite bling...

[appiah4]

This whole 'never takes off his helmet' thing is super dumb in the fluff..  Do they take a :cuss with their helmet on?

[SM1981]

Does a demon poop in the warp?

I think it depends on how bad they expect the smell to be - those ventilation systems have there benefits!

[Xenith]

This whole 'never takes off his helmet' thing is super dumb in the fluff.. Do they take a with their helmet on?

Well, never takes it off in public, at least.

And yes, that's why he's screaming.

[Blindhamster]

Trial by blood has some pondering by Seth on the topic of Dante. Well worth a read.

 

I think it hints there that Dante never removes his mask...

 

It might be that, like Bruce Banner, he is always angry. He just has supreme control over it.

Dante does remove his helm, the descriptions of him for warlords of dark millennium give a clear description of his appearance