Loyalist Thousand Sons?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

With the prospero set coming out soon, I was thinking of picking one up. I was thinking about starting some thousand sons. There's nothing in the rules saying that you can't do them as loyalists, in fact there's a rite of war specifically for it.

 

I was wondering what the best way of playing loyalist Thousand Sons would be?

 

I'm mainly interested in this because I wanted a force that I could play as a chaos counter to my 40k wolves (Which I'm looking to convert over to being a 30k force too), as well as play as a loyalist 30k legion.

 

Any suggestions?

[Paradigm]

If you want both loyalist 30k and chaos 40k, it's going to be pretty tricky. However, loyalist Tsons are cannon already. There were some ships sent away from prospero before the wolves arrived, specifically to save some of them. This is the rumored source of the cannon Blood Ravens, though, they may be of some other Tsons lineage. There was a company or two that followed a chapter master into chaos worship, but they were defeated by a loyal captain.

 

I'm guessing the proto-Blood Ravens would fit the mentioned RoW, or could be played as Blackshields with Orphans of War. They may still retain Tsons Iconography, or maybe they used the Corvidae icon instead, eventually evolving into the current Icon. It would be easy to find sculpted shoulders.

 

That said, we don't know exactly how it happened or if that was the fate of all of them.

[Supe robot gangster #1]

I run (or will be when inferno drops) my thousand sons as loyalists, my fluff being that they are the forebears of the mantis warriors chapter. A group of mainly Terran legionaries that were sent to crusade in the extra galactic place because they vocally disagreed with magnus' blatant disregard for the nikean edicts, and as such were never present for the purging of prospero.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Why Mantis Warriors? They aren't unknown lineage. They're White Scars (2nd generation, via The Marauders).

[Supe robot gangster #1]

Why Mantis Warriors? They aren't unknown lineage. They're White Scars (2nd generation, via The Marauders).

I swear they were unknown. Oh well! Back to the drawing board!

[Vodunius]

Perhaps they fought alongside the Scars during the Heresy and towards the end (secretly) absorbed into their ranks to avoid being killed - then when the second Founding took place it was those faux White Scars that formed the Marauders, with the Mantis Warriors deriving their name from a particular cult within the Marauders that provided the cadre for their creation. 

[Zeratil]

  Well the existing guidance is that all the legions, with the possible exception of the word bearers* have both loyalist and traitor elements. And while the Blood Ravens/Thousand Sons connection has been debunked by Laurie that doesn't mean you can't do loyalist Thousand Sons, or at the very least a Blackshields or Shattered Legion force. My Heresy Sons are in blue/yellow/gold. Mostly because I much prefer that colour scheme (it looks amazing on the FW kits and using them in 40k is a nice bonus) and because I wanted a force that was mostly separated from the main body of the Sons before and during the heresy.  My justifying concept can mostly be summed up as 'secret-space-warrior-archeologist-scholars'. A sizeable force that Magnus dispatched to 'retrieve' knowledge and artefacts from warzone's the Sons weren't directly involved in. Once the heresy begins they change colour scheme (perhaps a sign of things to come!) And start doing their own thing, absent any command from Magnus or Amon.

 Basically, they're your models and you can do whatever the :cuss you want with them :) Come up with a cool reason why your Thousand Sons remain loyal, but nonetheless fall to Chaos in the end** and run with it, perhaps do something to differentiate them from the 'core' of the legion. My force is themed heavily around a high-tech, fast and mobile force  - as I figure they would be well supplied, but rely on fast-in, fast-out in approach. Javelins, Sicarans and Jetbikes all feature, along with aircraft.



*personally I'd be fine with some loyalist WB, but they can't currently be played as loyalist by the AoD rules. Lorgar is meant to have purged those loyal to the Emperor thoroughly and well before the other traitor legions. So any loyalist WB force needs some reason to not have raised the alarm in the last 50 or so years of the Great Crusade. Not saying that couldn't be done though, or that you could do a force that initially goes along with Lorgar's corruption but later decides to reject him and Horus (not that going back to the loyalists is likely to end well).

** You could easily do something where some loyalist Sons survive past the Heresy but are nonetheless stricken by the Rubric and this precipitates some change from 'loyal but in exile' to ':cuss yeah Tzeentch' or even just ':cuss everyone'. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, I was actually thinking of using 2 different background stories for the same models. One for 30k Loyalist TSons, and one for 40K Chaos TSons. Or possibly that the Loyalist force became disillusioned with the Imperium during the Age of Apostasy and went renegade, still fighting for mankind, just not for the imperium. Either way I'd keep the Heresy era color scheme to differentiate them from everyone else's 40K TSons.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I'm waiting for inferno to drop before I actually pull the trigger of getting prospero burns, because I want to see if I actually like the TSons legion rules.

[Terminus]

I think odds of me not liking the TS rules are almost infinitesimal, although I am building an army of them regardless. But yes, I am waiting until Black Friday to pick up Prospero and until Inferno to actually start building.

[Kelborn]

My Sons' warband derives from Amons 9th Fellowship, the Hidden Ones. Consisting of specialized psykers with rare talents (absorbing heat, freezing surrounding while doing so and focusing the absorbed heat for attacks for example).

The were send across the galaxy to gather more resources for Amons brotherhood of the dust. Those, who were on Prospero will stay traitor after Amons demise and will later join the Black Legion as a seperate warband like the sons of the cyclops.

Those who weren't on Prospero still held up their loyalty to the Emperor. As Amon had become obsessed about Ahriman and the extinction of his own Legion, these loyal brothers break their oaths with the remaining Hidden Ones. Their leader, who is also called the Bloodraven, guides them to their new identity as blackshields.

 

Will let them clash against each other for a couple of times and leave the blackshields end open for further suggestions. ;)

[Terminus]

You had me until Bloodraven.

[Kelborn]

Naaaah that was a joke.
Just wanted to see if someone reacts on it.

Besides that, it's what I've currently planned for them. Basically it will be about the traitor branch but the loyalists will be covered in their shared past as well.
Not quite sure if the loyalists will either become an nearly unknown canon chapter or a DIY.

*edit*

I'm even considering to use the Seekers of the Truth which will later fall to Chaos and become the Scourged.

Quite ironic. They broke their fealty with their brothers because of the lies and deception done by Amon.

They became the Seekers of Truth to fight for the Imperial Truth and mankind.

They fall to Chaos because of all the lies, corruptions and deceptions within the Imperium.

They ultimately become the same of what they had once sworn to fight against because of what they had sworn to protect.

*Just as planned*

[Paradigm]

When was the blood raven - Tsons connection debunked? That would make me pretty happy actually.

[Zeratil]

Laurie Goulding's been quite vehement about it on The First Expedition forum. Essentially according to him DoW (and offshooting media) isn't considered canon, the Blood Raven's origin is 'known' to him but is not TS. The stuff about Arvida has been misinterpreted from an interview with McNeil and refers to much older lore and the general bird motiff of much TS stuff. 

Edit: To clarify, the Blood Ravens are officially a chapter, but neither GW nor BL consider themselves bound by a plot written over a decade ago, before the tightening of the canon and the coordination in story telling we've seen in the last few years.

[Paradigm]

That's interesting. I actually really like the chapter's color scheme, and overall premise. I just feel like the actual fluff was really bad. Too much trying to shoehorn everything possible into it, not enough trying to make the interesting niche they could have into something cool.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I know that TSons have a ton of psykers in their ranks, but what is their favored style of warfare? I'd like to know how to build my force. Do they tend to favor armored warfare or are they more in the vein of fast assault? I'm just looking for fluff, as we'll see when inferno drops.

 

For playing in 40k, I wanted them to be playable as either a loyalist chapter or as a chaos warband, as such I plan to focus on getting the FW stuff, like Storm eagles and sicaran tanks and things that can be used in both HH and 40k, and staying away from daemons and daemon engines in general.

[Petitioner's City]

I kinda liked the BR from TS idea - especially now that the Heresy has opened up the possibility of lots of loyalist traitor second foundings really, why not?

[Zeratil]

I know that TSons have a ton of psykers in their ranks, but what is their favored style of warfare? I'd like to know how to build my force. Do they tend to favor armored warfare or are they more in the vein of fast assault? I'm just looking for fluff, as we'll see when inferno drops.

 

For playing in 40k, I wanted them to be playable as either a loyalist chapter or as a chaos warband, as such I plan to focus on getting the FW stuff, like Storm eagles and sicaran tanks and things that can be used in both HH and 40k, and staying away from daemons and daemon engines in general.

  My force is much the same as you describe. The only real clues we have as to TS tactics for the moment, apart from the usual 'every legion had some amount of every unit' clarification* is this poster. There is some background from the old Slaves to Darkness books, which is where the 'TS prefer ranged combat' stuff comes from, but it's all of two sentences and so old that unless Inferno bring it up I would ignore it. Especially with the 'Assault Rubrics' rumours going around for (probably) December TS release.

 

http://i.imgur.com/wJF8oRB.png

 

*With exceptions like Salamaders not having destroyer squads.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Thanks a ton! That gives me more of an idea than I had. It's sounding to me like it's going to be more how I play them and how I build units rather than what units I take. It's sounding to me like a force of elite infantry with some armor and air support is the order of the day.

[Kelborn]

This is great, thank you Zeratil.

Exactly what I needed for the beginning of my warband. :D

[Terminus]

From what we see they don't bother with traditional warfare, they just crush everything with mind bullets while also shooting bolters to give their hands something to do.

[helterskelter]

From what we see they don't bother with traditional warfare, they just crush everything with mind bullets while also shooting bolters to give their hands something to do.

They didn't all specialise in telekinesis/yak murder

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

From what we see they don't bother with traditional warfare, they just crush everything with mind bullets while also shooting bolters to give their hands something to do.

There are five cult, the Corvidae's specialty was precognition, the Pyrae are pyrokinetic (able to both generate and control fire), the Pavonae are apparently able to use their psychically-generated powers to manipulate body chemistry (in themselves and others), the Athanaeans are telepaths (able to read the thoughts of others as well as transmit their own), and the Raptorae are telekinics. How much cross over learning you can undergo I don't know but from my reading of A Thousand Sons they tend to specialize in a field of study. Of course we will have to see how Forgeworld decided to handle the cults.

[Paradigm]

Hopefully we get a little information about the fate of the TSons that weren't on Prospero. I can't imagine they were all eager to strike for the Planet of Sorcerers, assuming they knew where their legion went.

[Supe robot gangster #1]

Hopefully we get a little information about the fate of the TSons that weren't on Prospero. I can't imagine they were all eager to strike for the Planet of Sorcerers, assuming they knew where their legion went.

More importantly if they were affected by the rubric. Or the flesh change for that matter