Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hopefully we get a little information about the fate of the TSons that weren't on Prospero. I can't imagine they were all eager to strike for the Planet of Sorcerers, assuming they knew where their legion went. More importantly if they were affected by the rubric. Or the flesh change for that matter If thy didn't fall to chaos, they wouldn't have started changing so the rubric wouldn't have affected them, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4545996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hopefully we get a little information about the fate of the TSons that weren't on Prospero. I can't imagine they were all eager to strike for the Planet of Sorcerers, assuming they knew where their legion went. More importantly if they were affected by the rubric. Or the flesh change for that matter If thy didn't fall to chaos, they wouldn't have started changing so the rubric wouldn't have affected them, right? Well, to put this to perspective, we have no record of Ahriman or Khayon being affected by the flesh change the second time around. Yet both were affected by the Rubric. Both Rubrics, in fact, according to the Ahriman series. So flesh change doesn't really matter since the Rubric targeted those who possessed the genetic material of the Thousand Sons' gene-seed. From there, it is a question of range. Is there a possibility that there were Thousand Sons who were far enough away from the Eye of Terror, following the Scouring, that they did manage to escape the Rubric? Or is it because the Rubric was made in the warp, and echoed throughout the warp, there is no such thing as "far enough away?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4546003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I would definitely say that there was a loyalist subset of the TS. However, I would say they were loyalist probably all the way up to the burning of Prospero, at least a majority were. I haven't read any books or anything like that so i could be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4546048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I would definitely say that there was a loyalist subset of the TS. However, I would say they were loyalist probably all the way up to the burning of Prospero, at least a majority were. I haven't read any books or anything like that so i could be wrong.Well, the problem is that the Burning of Prospero is at the beginning of the Heresy. A Thousand Sons puts it sometime after Davin. Forgeworld's timeline in Massacre, on pg 19, puts one year before Istvaan III, two years before Istvaan V. Also around the same time Perturabo burns Olympia coincidentally enough. So all of the Sons are "Loyalists" for at least two years after Prospero. After that, I'd still argue that the Legion is splitting apart like all other Legions. After all, by the time we get to Betrayer(which is one year after Istvaan V), Magnus is still undecided on which side of the war he'll join. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4546067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 After that, I'd still argue that the Legion is splitting apart like all other Legions. After all, by the time we get to Betrayer(which is one year after Istvaan V), Magnus is still undecided on which side of the war he'll join. You can choose, but in the end there is no choice. There is only change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4546233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 After that, I'd still argue that the Legion is splitting apart like all other Legions. After all, by the time we get to Betrayer(which is one year after Istvaan V), Magnus is still undecided on which side of the war he'll join. You can choose, but in the end there is no choice. There is only change. Tsons were damned if they did, damned if they didn't. Tragically awesome if you ask me. I've actually been considering some loyalist Tsons to run alongside my Evocatii Ultramarines to aid the defence of the 500 Worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4546240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Part of the reason I want to do TSons is because they are a great chaos army to play if you're not super into mutations and daemons. It would also give me a Force I could play as loyalists or traitors, and play against my imperial forces in 40k, that isn't xenos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamy248 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Purely because of the sheer reluctance for Magnus+his bros to do anything relating to chaos, it makes sense that many of the marines that were psykers (and thus weren't turned into Rubrics) stayed loyal to the Emperor. Also, it is well documented that loads of Tsons ships fled Prospero before the Wolves reached the planet. I could definitely imagine a 30k loyalist black shields force made up of Tsons. Marines still loyal to the Emperor that are succumbing to the flesh-change and mutating into chaotic monsters.... each marine knowing full well that there is a large chance that they will suffer the flesh change, and thus are determined to kill as many traitors as possible before killing themselves. Kamikaze Thousand Sons lol.... what have I DONE?! And whether anyone makes their Tsons loyalist or traitor, they totally need to model ALL of their Thousand Son models without guns; just arms outstretched firing mind bullets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 There is a lone Thousand Sons loyalist fighting with the White Scars in some Heresy books and he's still very might fighting the flesh-change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 So, do all of the Thousand Sons face the flesh-change regardless of falling to chaos, or is it a function of being psykers? If it's the latter, what keeps psykers from that after the heresy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 So, do all of the Thousand Sons face the flesh-change regardless of falling to chaos, or is it a function of being psykers? If it's the latter, what keeps psykers from that after the heresy? Extreme self-control, although in Battle of the Fang one manifests it slowly, apparently as a prelude to Magnus explosively using him as a teleport locus Indeed, it's portrayed consistently after the Burning of Prospero as occuring slowly. Arvida is depicted having to spend serious downtime forcing his own matter to behave after any use of his powers. Though all we really see or hear is him locking himself away and "Damn you. Not yet." (Screaming) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwing Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 November 2016 White Dwarfs alludes to the fact that he Blood Ravens Primarchs is NOT one of the 9 loyal Primarchs. The comment can be found in the army of the month article. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 WHOOOOOOOTTTT? O.O Damn it, now I need to buy it. Thought I could skip it. ^^ Gaulding, you old deceiver! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 By all that's unholy, I so hope that's either wrong, or just someone at WD being a troll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagoth Ur Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Now we have to be fair, the only thing the WD mentions is that IN-UNIVERSE, some voices say that, based upon the amount of psykers and what not, the primarch of the Blood Ravens might very well not have been a loyalist. It is only alluded in-universe, the WD is not making a direct, out-of-universe reference to that. Semantics, I know, but I feel that it is kinda important. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4548968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Now we have to be fair, the only thing the WD mentions is that IN-UNIVERSE, some voices say that, based upon the amount of psykers and what not, the primarch of the Blood Ravens might very well not have been a loyalist. It is only alluded in-universe, the WD is not making a direct, out-of-universe reference to that. Semantics, I know, but I feel that it is kinda important. I think this is an important point, too often 'we' as a fanbase have read too much into titbits and rumours in the lore and taken them to be facts, to the point where Wraithwing even says 'alludes to the fact'. Wanting something to be true (and despite LG's flat out denial of the BR/TS connection it's one I personally liked) doesn't make it true, and makes it all the more awkward when some poor author has to walk back, in minute detail, some rumour about say the Ultramarines only being 250,000 strong because they nabbed off with some disgraced Primarchs marines... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4549030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Can anyone say blood ravens. Lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4553605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Can anyone say blood ravens. Lol Or... now hear me out here... the Grey Knights have a lot of psykers, don't they? All hail Arvida, first Grandmaster? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4553794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Can anyone say blood ravens. Lol Or... now hear me out here... the Grey Knights have a lot of psykers, don't they? All hail Arvida, first Grandmaster? in the grand scheme of things wheather it is Arvida or another psyker is beside the point. even with only the earlier events of the heresy one has to realize that the Magnus/psyker TS and and Loraghr/spiritual WB definately are the architects not only of warp/chaos and heresy, but their behaviour informed the primary structures of the Imperium to come in wh40k with the Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition, Grey Knights... all is heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 That aside, I have to say Arvida has become one of my favourite supporting characters in the Heresy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Um, wut? The thing that almost destroyed the XV Legion, that Magnus damned himself and his Legion in a futile attempt to halt, that instigated the Rubric of Ahriman, is cured off screen by some guy, in a coda? that. That just reeks of the worst kind of special snowflake, deus ex machina BS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Um, wut? The thing that almost destroyed the XV Legion, that Magnus damned himself and his Legion in a futile attempt to halt, that instigated the Rubric of Ahriman, is cured off screen by some guy, in a coda? that. That just reeks of the worst kind of special snowflake, deus ex machina BS. It is Malcador after all he was the douche of the loyalist as much as Erebus was of the traitors though the flesh change was part of the Sons geneseed corrupted by tzeentch so it would make sense that the Emperor and by extension his right hand man would be able to stop the effects since he was pretty good at screwing over chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 At the end of path to heaven after discovering that webway travel suppresses the flesh change after arriving at terra one of malcadors agents says they have found a cure for it. Um, wut? The thing that almost destroyed the XV Legion, that Magnus damned himself and his Legion in a futile attempt to halt, that instigated the Rubric of Ahriman, is cured off screen by some guy, in a coda? that. That just reeks of the worst kind of special snowflake, deus ex machina BS. They might have a means, he says. And this is one particular Son, rather than the entire Legion. Edit: and seriously, you expect this to be off screen? It'll be a major event in whatever book it happens in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It is Malcador after all he was the douche of the loyalist as much as Erebus was of the traitors though the flesh change was part of the Sons geneseed corrupted by tzeentch so it would make sense that the Emperor and by extension his right hand man would be able to stop the effects since he was pretty good at screwing over chaos. Where is it stated that Tzeentch instigated the flesh change? From what I remember Magnus failed to control the change when he was first reunited with the Legion, and it was only his deal with Tzeentch that suppressed it (though Magnus, being a sap, thought it was cured). Which would put the change as an intrinsic error in the XV gene-line (like the Red Thirst in the IX), rather than the outside influence of Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Then Malcador, who was around when the Primarchs and Astartes were created, arguably has a better chance than Magnus. We don't know yet, to put it simply. Wraight just dropped an enormous cliffhanger on us, and I just want to see Arvida come through OK. Poor guy's been through the wringer on a level that rivals Garviel Loken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327181-loyalist-thousand-sons/page/2/#findComment-4557928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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