[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[depthcharge12]

^^ It is just simply mean from FW to release that kind of rules for Custodes as it will do most damage against those who love the models and wan't to play with them.

 

There simply is no room for a faction whose basic troops cost 240pts and can soak up 56.7 plasma shots before a single model has been removed if they pass all their look out sir rolls.

 

Why do you expect someone to play against you if it is always auto win for you no matter what you are up against (except other Custodes)?

Lol why use plasma when you can use dreadnoughts? :P dread mobs can squish Custodes in banana custard ;) of course they have ample anti tank, but you have ++ and the ability to ID squads in cc.

 

It'll be a fun match up though. I look forward to fighting uphill games. Tabling is boring anywho.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

^^ It is just simply mean from FW to release that kind of rules for Custodes as it will do most damage against those who love the models and wan't to play with them.

 

There simply is no room for a faction whose basic troops cost 240pts and can soak up 56.7 plasma shots before a single model has been removed if they pass all their look out sir rolls.

 

Why do you expect someone to play against you if it is always auto win for you no matter what you are up against (except other Custodes)?

Lol why use plasma when you can use dreadnoughts? :P dread mobs can squish Custodes in banana custard ;) of course they have ample anti tank, but you have ++ and the ability to ID squads in cc.

 

It'll be a fun match up though. I look forward to fighting uphill games. Tabling is boring anywho.

The issue is even dreads hit praesidum shield bearing models on 5's. Say you have a cortus with rage and double ccw you get 6 attacks you hit twice you see where this is going you at best kill 1 custodes on average. Which is horrible for a 150+point combat dread who then gets hit back with a s10 power gauntlets and you get no invulnerable in combat it ain't going to be a pretty trade.

 

Now vs non sentinels / valdor / terminators / Hetaeron.

 

You'll actually kill normal Custodian Guard with a dread if they don't shoot you dead first. They love killing vehicles and monsters.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[depthcharge12]

lol I didn't consider that, I was thinking most people ran spears or Paragon blades >.<

 

Edit: time to whip out my DA cheese :P hit squads with stasis and acid bolter rounds until they cry Emprah

Edited February 23, 2017 by depthcharge12

[Jarkaira]

If they only would have the drawback of dreads killing them here and there but they don't as their ranged weaponry simply eats through AV13/12 and as PtD said their hit modifier affects also against dreads.

 

There isn't actually a single drawback selecting Custodes and they even get everything too cheap when compared to other factions.

[Purge the Daemon]

lol I didn't consider that, I was thinking most people ran spears or Paragon blades >.<

Paragon blades can only be taken on the Hetaeron Guard but sentinel Guard can go gauntlets and shields and they score...

 

But realistically if I'm running the Hetaeron star I'd put Valdor and good luck if you are a dread when he auto pens.... and forces invul rerolls.

 

People complained about Russ -1 to hit you can have the majority of units with this rule as custodes. The best way to win is to avoid them and play for objectives if it's kill points so you will lose. Even Medusas and vindicators suck vs them due to arae shrikes invulnerable and rerolls + 3" coherence males a large blast template look like a small one.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[depthcharge12]

So literally, the only way to balance them, with keeping their original weaponry intact due to originality and desire, is to bump up their points level dramatically. Add at least 100 points to each unit not considering things like the dread or jetbikes, which seem to need more.

[Jarkaira]

^ Pretty much that. I am not against über models unless they aren't priced equally.

 

Edit: As they are now they need some restrictions on tournaments and events, which is bad for their players. I would allow a player to use them as an allied detachment which takes a LoW slot and has the same 25% restriction as LoWs have.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Jarkaira

[Purge the Daemon]

^ Pretty much that. I am not against über models unless they aren't priced equally.

I'm not against them but they do need a price raise. The average custodes will solo kill your Praetor. A Guard squad will beast most primarchs and be harder to kill. I'm not against them I think they look cool and the unique rules are cool but they need a point increase.

[TompiQ]

I'm not denying Custodes are strong, but I really think people need to calm down and wait for them to be properly run for a while before all this doom and gloom. They are basically a stronger type of terminator but they are completely without access to an assault transport. Infiltration through Master of Ambush is the only way to come close to a turn 2 charge if the opponent plays correctly.

[Slips]

How about those who are serious about the 30k tournament scene actually go ahead and run one with no restrictions on talons lists and see how it goes.

 

Instead of...y'know... complaining about stuff and not being on topic and instead discussing Custodes Tactics since this is the point of the thread not "complain about how OP I feel they are" thread.

[Kilofix]

Are folks not finding that they die really quickly to Plasma? Maybe I'm playing them wrong.

[Jarkaira]

^ Take a Praesidium shield and it takes 56.7 shots of plasma to kill single Custodes model if you pass all look out sir rolls needed.

 

This costs 240pts vs. 975pts that it would cost marines to wield 30 plasma gun guys. Oh well and they have to be in RF range or otherwise it costs 1950pts.

 

There is a cost effective tactic for you.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Volkite squads a problem too. Massive range on the cavilers and just so many dice that custodes are bound to roll 1s

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not every model can get a shield. Your math seems highly inflated as well; not only are you passing every LOS (for no reason) you also don't specify the unit size. Is it 3 where your wound pool is 6? Or is it 10 with characters attached. Custodes are invincible if you pass every save; they're OP. Seriously guys. It's going to change when people drop the scorpius and Las vindis in favor of Medusas and normal vindis. And typhons.

[Jarkaira]

Yeah single calivers do 0.189 wounds against Custodes meaning you need 5.29 calivers to remove one wound equalling 37.07 calivers to remove a single Custodes from a group of three if all look out sir rolls are passed.

 

This is bad news to Custodes and they better avoid caliver fielding marines as in order to remove single model from a troop choice costing 240pts the marines need only 900pts worth of support troop with calivers.

[Slips]

Yeah single calivers do 0.189 wounds against Custodes meaning you need 5.29 calivers to remove one wound equalling 37.07 calivers to remove a single Custodes from a group of three if all look out sir rolls are passed.

 

This is bad news to Custodes and they better avoid caliver fielding marines as in order to remove single model from a troop choice costing 240pts the marines need only 900pts worth of support troop with calivers.

How many in the squad and are you LoSing an IC or a Character? The difference between passing on a 2+ and on a 4+ is a pretty large margin to just...handwave...like you are.

[Purge the Daemon]

The funny thing is custodes are ridiculously good at killing themselves. Adrathic weapons destroy custodes. Perso bally I always wanted a knight pophyrion and with 4 s10 ap2 large templates I'm bound to kill something.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Idk about funny but yes custodes hard counter themselves. Lol.

[Jarkaira]

^^^ Basic squad of three Custodes with Praesidum shields costs 240pts.

 

I am just using enough handwaving with LoS rolls as is needed when the ridiculous resilience of Praesidium shield fielding troop choices is taken in account. I don't like to derail this anymore as I would like to talk tactics as there is a notable difference in efficiency against plasma or volkite :)

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jarkaira

[SkimaskMohawk]

You have a 57% pass rate with praesidium-refractor. That's 8 wounds of ap 2 to kill one with perfect LOS on a unit of 3. Or 4 to kill one with average rolls. Handwaving and huge squads can account for a lot

[SkimaskMohawk]

6* with average rolls not 4

[Plaguecaster]

How about we start an actual anti- custodoe thread (I mean tactics not hate) instead of filling up the actual custodoe thread with anti stuff

[Slips]

How about we start an actual anti- custodoe thread (I mean tactics not hate) instead of filling up the actual custodoe thread with anti stuff

That can take place in the specific Army/Legion Tactica Threads.

[SkimaskMohawk]

just to cement that the "57 plasma shots kills 1 sentinel out of 3 with perfect LOS" statement is baloney

 

57 plasma shots get 37.6 hits, 31.38 wounds of which 13.67 are unsaved.  Thats 6.5 dead sentinel guard or almost 5 hetaerons. Or if at the other targets; 15.69 wounds on terminators (7.5 dead), 12.4 wounds on jinking bikes (6 dead), and 20.7 on anything with just a refractor (10 dead).

 

Losing an entire squad is crippling; since most people tend to go MSU, you can safely just go with two 10 man plasma squads and drown a custodes player in plasma over the course of a game

Edited February 24, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk

[Baluc]

Where are we getting 57 plasma shots?