[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[TemujinZero]

"If all LOS rolls are passed"

 

It`s worse than that. If they pass all of their inv saves they can survive infinite plasma guns!

[SkimaskMohawk]

@Baluc

 

 From this statement  

 

^ Take a Praesidium shield and it takes 56.7 shots of plasma to kill single Custodes model if you pass all look out sir rolls needed.

This costs 240pts vs. 975pts that it would cost marines to wield 30 plasma gun guys. Oh well and they have to be in RF range or otherwise it costs 1950pts.

There is a cost effective tactic for you.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk

[Kilofix]

Sorry, not trying to be difficult but:

 

P.Shield is only 5++ with reroll right? Would that be 1/3 + (2/3 x 1/3)?

 

On a separate note, how are folks getting Dreads into Assault range?

 

Thanks!

[Plaguecaster]

Seriously these shields sound crazy how do they work ??? I thought they were just like a storm shield with an inv save ???

[Purge the Daemon]

Seriously these shields sound crazy how do they work ??? I thought they were just like a storm shield with an inv save ???

They have a few rules.

 

Reroll any failed invulnerable save. -1 to hit rolls in close combat directed towards a model with the shield. User may not benefit from a weapon with the 2 handed rule. User may not benefit from the charge bonus of a guardian spear (not 2 handed in inferno was changed to specialist weapons)

 

They are very good re-roll invulnerable save is always strong. The -1 to hit makes custodes very tanky as even specialist Troops will need 5'some to hit them.

[Gorgoff]

So... the -1 for tonhit roll doesn’t apply in CC unless you are in a challange, right? Because you don't attack models wise but the unit. And if only one dude has that shield...

Am I right?

[IronDrake28]

So... the -1 for tonhit roll doesn’t apply in CC unless you are in a challange, right? Because you don't attack models wise but the unit. And if only one dude has that shield...

Am I right?

Nahhh. Hetaeron and Sentinel squads can *all* have shields, and the Galatus dread has one in all but name. The effect definitely works for them.

[Gorgoff]

Ah, ok.

[Withershadow]

Making Custodes Chosen warriors instead of characters would be a good thing, I think. They've tried so hard to prevent wound shenanigans, but it keeps creeping back up. It's really a loathsome use of game mechanics.

[SkimaskMohawk]

We've got some great slander so far in this thread from "bullying in pick-up games" to "loathsome use of game mechanics".

 

How is it loathsome? It was a staple of 6th until they reverse faq'd everything not to be units of characters because it was strong, but the equivalent would be 5th ed wound allocation in the most advantageous way for the defending player. Just with no RNG involved.

 

Forgeworld clearly was concerned with it, hence Chosen Warrior existing. You think that its not a deliberate choice? And using that one difference between the two is enough to describe a player as "loathsome"? It's not like there's ancillary rules tacked on to being a character like Precision Shots and Strikes anymore.

 

It'd be like claiming that using PoTMS on a Pallas that jinked to still shoot at full BS is gamey and a twisting of mechanics, seeing as the whole point of jinking is self-penalizing to gain a defensive bonus.

 

 

Some of this hyberbole and rhetoric is actually mind boggling guys, and this is coming from who enjoys absurd descriptions. Custodes are like every non-legion list in 30k; if you take an anti-legion force against them, you'll lose.

[Plaguecaster]

Damn Custodoes sound almost impossible to beat especially if they get into close combat

 

So what do people reckon would be good ways of dealing with them as a couple of players at my club who love playing small yet hard hitting armies plan on starting full custodoe armies. They seem to have pretty good counters to the majority of what you would normally take for dealing with 2+ elites

though I would love to send a full maurader chymeriae squad with a rad grenade reaver lord and santic librarian into them to see how they fair, if I was extrmely lucky I would get and cast hammer hand so everything hits at STR 8 for all attacks, that may carve through a custodoe squad (they are T5 right) though that would probably mean the black shields get wiped out as well 

Edited February 24, 2017 by teutonicavenger

[Charlo]

Honestly, I've got no issue with the wound allocation thing. I used to play against Orks and Tau suits all the time back when it was player choice and it make sense for the defending player to remove models as they wanted.

 

So many things are abstracted in this game, it's weird that it takes literal relative model positioning into account when receiving shooting.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Charlo

[SkimaskMohawk]

Damn Custodoes sound almost impossible to beat especially if they get into close combat

 

So what do people reckon would be good ways of dealing with them as a couple of players at my club who love playing small yet hard hitting armies plan on starting full custodoe armies. They seem to have pretty good counters to the majority of what you would normally take for dealing with 2+ elites

though I would love to send a full maurader chymeriae squad with a rad grenade reaver lord and santic librarian into them to see how they fair, if I was extrmely lucky I would get and cast hammer hand so everything hits at STR 8 for all attacks, that may carve through a custodoe squad (they are T5 right) though that would probably mean the black shields get wiped out as well 

 

Plasma support, vindicators, medusas, Leviathans. Or if you're really struggling, ally in some mechanicum to get grav imploder myrmidons and watch the custodes cry

[TompiQ]

Alright, I'm just going to step right in and shut down the complaining about Custodes wound allocation shenanigans. Here's directly form the Look Out, Sir rule in the Characters section of the rulebook:

 

 

 

If the unit only consists of characters, a Look Out, Sir attempt can still be made, with the closest character within 6" taking the place of the erstwhile victim if the roll is passed. Only one Look Out, Sir attempt can be made per Wound allocated – once the Wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made.

 

and here's from the rulebook FAQ:

 

 

Q: The ‘Look Out, Sir’ rule states that Wounds must be

allocated to the closest model in the unit to the character. What

if you have multiple models that are equidistant? Do you have

to allocate all ‘Look Out, Sir’ hits to a particular model until

it is removed, or can you shift the Wounds to other equidistant

models (assuming, of course, that they have multiple Wounds)?

A: You must apply all Wounds to the same model until

it is removed, or until another model is closer to the

character for whatever reason.

 

 

As is obvious by the rules, a Custodian unit CANNNOT spread wounds around in the manner that the naysayers of this thread are trying to state. You can only LOS a wound a single time (on a 4+ roll non the less) and the recipient cannot then LOS another time. Beyond that you need to continue to assign the wounds to the same recipient, so even if all other squad members are equidistant from the initial receiver you still need to LOS to the same guy until he dies. Custodians can literally dodge a single wound in this manner before they need to remove a squad member somehow (2 if it's Hetaeron due to W3), so drop these imaginary "57 shots to kill a single sentinel".

 

Plasma is pure death to Custodes, Praesidium shield or not.

Edited February 24, 2017 by TompiQ

[Fallen11]

@Gorgoff - I think -1 to hit applies in cc, doesn't have to be just challange. You attack unit, but everyone in unit has shield. It's not that only 1 guy has it, it's not like you are not attacking someone who does not have it.

 

@SKimaskMowhak

medusas and vindicators are actually really easily destroyed when you play custodes. Get 3x 4 man bike squads with lasers&melta bombs - around 1000pts -> around 24 lascannon shots with bs5 and split fire and very good mobility and even better survability + they dont care for s10 for Ik. Watch your medusas and vindicators burn turn 1...

Ofcourse you also have some tanks&transports that can also destroy them

Leviatan vs 3'' coherency - I fired grav&fosfex&meltagun vs custeds 3man squad with hq(who was in back) killed 1 custodes and did 1 wound to hq...not really effective. Next turn leviathan was destroyed with laser from custodes dredo.

Also all those lascannons and fire power custodes player has is effective vs leviathan too.

 

Both of 'counters' you recomended vs custodes are actually very easily destroyed by custodes.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Slipstreams
Removed Off-Topic

[Gorgoff]

Where did your opponent get the jetbikes?

They're not out yet, so no playing. In my humble opinion if someone want to play cheesy stuff like 12 Custodes Jetbikes, he has to buy them. Unless he did that I won't play against it.

Simple as that.

I hope that those dang bikes will be expansive as hell so that everyone who wants to spam them will bleed. ;)

[Fallen11]

Proxyed them. Fact that they are not out yet does not mean that they don't exists. We have no problem playing vs stuff that is not out yet as proxy, its okay to give player chance to test before he buys. They are filthy OP...

[Kilofix]

So just to be clear:

 

Prasedium Shields are NOT 3++ Storm Shields. They are 5++ with a Reroll. They also give -1 to Hit only in Assault.

Compare that to cheaper Cataphracti 4++ with Apothecary FnP.

 

That said, any "serious" Large Blast or multi-shot AP2 will give them a hard time, including Ordnance Medusa, Las Cannon arrays, Plasma, Graviton Imploders, Photon, etc.

 

Also, Custodes infantry are only T5 with No Eternal Warrior, so anything S10 will ID them.

 

----

 

That said, its certainly true that Custodes can also hit back very hard. Though I still find getting something like a Custodes footslogger or Dread in range difficult. And most of their Ardrarthic stuff is only 12" range.

 

But their Jetbikes are singularly dangerous because they are T6 so they won't ID. They can get into range fast. And their Las Corve is 36" range. Though this is not without drawback as they cost as much as a Legion Dread Drop Pod per bike and they still only have a 5++ Invul.

[Black_out]

Hello everyone! Just wanted to poke my head in and announce I'll be joining the ranks of the Custodes as well!

 

I managed to get my hands on the amazing Ixion Hale model from a seller on ebay (he seriously might be my favorite FW model to date, I think it's amazing).

 

In addition I just placed my order from FW for the Corona & 10 custodes bundle and a Galatus dreadnought.

 

Holding off on ordering Inferno until the Achillus dread is released and they're restocked on the transfer sheets, plus I'd like to have everything assembled and painted first.

[Fallen11]

Well, as rules are written, don't cost as much as dredo dp, but 75% of it, and 25% is upgrade for whole squad not for model.

 

Dunno why would s10 be probelm. It's not that you don't have awesome transporta that are survivable more than land raider, and not that expensive. Simply put guys in untill you neutralise s10 threat within a turn, since usually it's not that hard to do it with what you have at your disposal.

 

There is zero point to foot sloog them from your dz to enemy dz with transport that they have. I would rather take transport + 3 custodes than 6 naked custodes and foot slog them.

[Sete]

This thread has been invaluable.

My first HH games will be vs Custodes.

And I have 2 months to get a Legion ready.

So far DA are the strongest contenders with the Poison HB and stasis grenades.

Well time to stack up those plasma guns.

[SkimaskMohawk]

@SKimaskMowhak

medusas and vindicators are actually really easily destroyed when you play custodes. Get 3x 4 man bike squads with lasers&melta bombs - around 1000pts -> around 24 lascannon shots with bs5 and split fire and very good mobility and even better survability + they dont care for s10 for Ik. Watch your medusas and vindicators burn turn 1...

Ofcourse you also have some tanks&transports that can also destroy them

 

Leviatan vs 3'' coherency - I fired grav&fosfex&meltagun vs custeds 3man squad with hq(who was in back) killed 1 custodes and did 1 wound to hq...not really effective. Next turn leviathan was destroyed with laser from custodes dredo.

Also all those lascannons and fire power custodes player has is effective vs leviathan too.

 

Both of 'counters' you recomended vs custodes are actually very easily destroyed by custodes.

 

Don't misdeploy? People act like blocking LoS isn't one of the most important things in the game. Someone who plays so badly to expose all of his vindis and medusas and whatnot to the point where they all die turn 1 doesn't deserve to win.

 

The anecdote about the leviathan is just that, you should have charged though.

 

I recommended more than that, interesting how they ignored though. Especially the one that causes 19 ap2 wounds a volley

Well, as rules are written, don't cost as much as dredo dp, but 75% of it, and 25% is upgrade for whole squad not for model.

 

Dunno why would s10 be probelm. It's not that you don't have awesome transporta that are survivable more than land raider, and not that expensive. Simply put guys in untill you neutralise s10 threat within a turn, since usually it's not that hard to do it with what you have at your disposal.

 

There is zero point to foot sloog them from your dz to enemy dz with transport that they have. I would rather take transport + 3 custodes than 6 naked custodes and foot slog them.

 

Lets go over the weaknesses of those transports.

 

• theyre huge so blasts will rarely miss
• they have one, small, rear mounted access hatch
• not assault vehicle
• side armour 12

This means all the standard really good anti-armour units are still....really good. Lightnings can paste them, melta lance Levis, grav-rapiers, Medusas that get around the flare shield with str10 ordnance.

 

If you wreck them the unit has to emergency disembark, where they're grouped up.

 

 

I'll say this again for everyone. If you don't take the right tools for the job, you will have a very hard time winning. The same for mechanicum. The same for solar auxilia. The same cult/militia.

I'll say this again for everyone. If you don't take the right tools for the job, you will have a very hard time winning. The same for mechanicum. The same for solar auxilia. The same cult/militia.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

So I'm planning a 6 dread list....because they are beautiful.

 

Valdor hq

 

2 units of 3 sentinels with a vexila fist in each. Free teleported

 

1 unit of guard shrikes and melta bombs

 

3 sword board dreads

 

3 spear dreads all with spears and 2 with full destructor

 

 

2501 points.

 

It should be a ball.

[Fallen11]

 

@SKimaskMowhak

medusas and vindicators are actually really easily destroyed when you play custodes. Get 3x 4 man bike squads with lasers&melta bombs - around 1000pts -> around 24 lascannon shots with bs5 and split fire and very good mobility and even better survability + they dont care for s10 for Ik. Watch your medusas and vindicators burn turn 1...

Ofcourse you also have some tanks&transports that can also destroy them

 

Leviatan vs 3'' coherency - I fired grav&fosfex&meltagun vs custeds 3man squad with hq(who was in back) killed 1 custodes and did 1 wound to hq...not really effective. Next turn leviathan was destroyed with laser from custodes dredo.

Also all those lascannons and fire power custodes player has is effective vs leviathan too.

 

Both of 'counters' you recomended vs custodes are actually very easily destroyed by custodes.

 

Don't misdeploy? People act like blocking LoS isn't one of the most important things in the game. Someone who plays so badly to expose all of his vindis and medusas and whatnot to the point where they all die turn 1 doesn't deserve to win.

 

The anecdote about the leviathan is just that, you should have charged though.

 

I recommended more than that, interesting how they ignored though. Especially the one that causes 19 ap2 wounds a volley

Well, as rules are written, don't cost as much as dredo dp, but 75% of it, and 25% is upgrade for whole squad not for model.

 

Dunno why would s10 be probelm. It's not that you don't have awesome transporta that are survivable more than land raider, and not that expensive. Simply put guys in untill you neutralise s10 threat within a turn, since usually it's not that hard to do it with what you have at your disposal.

 

There is zero point to foot sloog them from your dz to enemy dz with transport that they have. I would rather take transport + 3 custodes than 6 naked custodes and foot slog them.

 

Lets go over the weaknesses of those transports.

 

• theyre huge so blasts will rarely miss
• they have one, small, rear mounted access hatch
• not assault vehicle
• side armour 12

This means all the standard really good anti-armour units are still....really good. Lightnings can paste them, melta lance Levis, grav-rapiers, Medusas that get around the flare shield with str10 ordnance.

 

If you wreck them the unit has to emergency disembark, where they're grouped up.

 

 

I'll say this again for everyone. If you don't take the right tools for the job, you will have a very hard time winning. The same for mechanicum. The same for solar auxilia. The same cult/militia.

I'll say this again for everyone. If you don't take the right tools for the job, you will have a very hard time winning. The same for mechanicum. The same for solar auxilia. The same cult/militia.

 

If you hide medusas, you shoot and have full scatter, so there is still decent chance that it will go off the mark. And he can still jink, so it's not that easy to kill it. Same with vindicators,except you will be probably hitting front flare shield. And maybe you won't be able to hide all of your medusas and vindicators...

grav rapiers are 1 shot, and he can jink, so 3 of them will do maybe 1-2 hp of single transport.

Lance levi is nice if you wanna drop pod him, and has to kill 3 transports to earn his points back, will he? His lance is ignored for lance rule since transports have ceramite, and there is also jink, os it's not like you have guarantee to kill it. If you don't drop pod him, good luck with him.

Lightning also has worse chance to kill this transport than spartan, since you are bs4 instead of 5, and he jinks and simply ignores half of your hits, you also have to kill almost 2 transports to earn your point back.

 

They are not unkilable, thing is, you have to pour so much fire power to even kill one, that's what's the problem. Because with jink,flare shield, good armors,ceramite they more survivable than a lot of stuff, and yet cost quite little for all that.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

If people taking medusa don't opt to buy the spotter upgrade for their troops they deserve to scatter lol. They aren't a lot of points and make them much more survivable.