[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[Lightbox]

Hi Guys,

 

So I recently picked up some 40k custodes wardens with the idea of making them into hetaeron guard but have since realised that their points probably don't really justify the extra wound & attack over guard squads and that Aquillon already fulfil the fist role. So I'm wondering whether it would be better to convert them up as guard with adrasite spears (to give me some insta deathing and light vehicle threatening) or into saggitarum guard (found that 40k allarus guns stuck onto the ends of a guardian spear bolter work really well for the look of heavy gun)

 

Alternatively in non-competitive games are the Hetaeron good enough to not hamper me with their cost?

[Charlo]

So in my experience Hetaeron have always been great; it's hard to argue with a unit of +1S/T Preators with more rules than you can shake a stick at!

 

However I haven't played with the new points cost... And they are VERY costly, especially considering they don't score :(

 

The best way to use Hets is just plow them into your opponents death star if he has one, as they will come out on top, no doubt. Or if not just ANYWHERE he will not want them. They warrant a reaction and a big one at that.

 

Sadly, with the current rules the most efficient unit is Sentinel Guard with shields and fists and anything else is rather over pointed...

[Lightbox]

So in my experience Hetaeron have always been great; it's hard to argue with a unit of +1S/T Preators with more rules than you can shake a stick at!

 

However I haven't played with the new points cost... And they are VERY costly, especially considering they don't score

 

The best way to use Hets is just plow them into your opponents death star if he has one, as they will come out on top, no doubt. Or if not just ANYWHERE he will not want them. They warrant a reaction and a big one at that.

 

Sadly, with the current rules the most efficient unit is Sentinel Guard with shields and fists and anything else is rather over pointed...

 

I'm not too worried about 'most efficient' really as I don't think my club feels particularly super competitive meta and sadly fists just don't look as cool as giant gun glaives.

 

I used some hetaeron in a game last knight with my shield captain who mulched a unit nicely but then got caught in the middle of a lot of other units and got worn down and whilst I did forget about counter attack (which would have helped) and 3 wounds and 3 attacks were great I do wonder if I'd have managed mostly the same result with regular guard instead (my hetaeron were using guardian spears). I also am a bit loathe to do fist guard because I won't be able to use those in 40k as well. Guard would at least be scoring too (one of the problems I'm finding with my talons is keeping my scoring units alive enough to actually score and not get bogged down) 

 

It's a pain because I love the idea of spear Het's but finding the points in our current campaign games is difficult especially when there's fun toys like Contemptor Achillus and Aquillon's to try and cram in. It's also why I was wondering about the adrasite spears as they could be useful (though I've no clue whether we have many people playing armies with lots of wounds at my club, we have 1 dark mech guy but most folks are legions) Kinda comes down to Het are better if charged and have more attacks and staying power but spear guard give me cheaper bodies and scoring. But I can definitely see het doing well at hitting key targets I want having a bad day, 4 attacks on the charge at 6s AP2 is a nasty surprise especially being backed up by a paragon spear captain or paragon blade centura.

 

 

Though going back to tactics from my game I did find that whilst sisters are fragile they're a bit more easily forgotten about when custodes run rampant which let me get them into a nice scoring position with our shatter strike mission and my Aquillon with storm bolters have made me think firepikes might be better because well the stormbolters aren't that useful besides saving points and if I want instant death that's where my fists can come in. Though even with their lovely saves custodes really don't do well against massed attacks so putting them into the wrong position where they can be charged a lot is really painful, especially with how few scoring units we have. I'm excited to try out my new dread though as a big nasty distraction and murder monster in combat. Plan for him is to charge right into nasty things or smash up vehicles.

[Charlo]

Hetaeron are a waste with guardian spears. Fists and paragon blades + shields are mandatory to make them worth the price of entry really.

[Brofist]

e: NM

Edited January 27, 2020 by Brofist

[caladancid]

I have been thinking a lot about getting a unit of 6 Aquilon termies with adrathic destructors.  Has anyone else been using them, and what is your honest assessment of them versus trying some sort of kitbash with the Allarus kit?

[Nomadic Thunder]

I'm looking to start with an allied detachment of Talons.

 

My question is what are peoples loadouts for a shield captain?

 

I only ask as I'd have liked to field something with a high initiative and decent puch (after using a tanky archmagos for so long) and noticed that only hetaeron guard have access to paragon blades. I love the swoard and board aesthetic but this would mean giving him a sentinel blade which i think kind of sucks for a hero of heroic heros, I'd like my big boss man to not be tanked by some smug line sergeant in artificer armour in combat...

 

Is it a waste of his initiative to give him a solarite guantlet?

[Darkwrath121]

I'm looking to start with an allied detachment of Talons.

 

My question is what are peoples loadouts for a shield captain?

 

I only ask as I'd have liked to field something with a high initiative and decent puch (after using a tanky archmagos for so long) and noticed that only hetaeron guard have access to paragon blades. I love the swoard and board aesthetic but this would mean giving him a sentinel blade which i think kind of sucks for a hero of heroic heros, I'd like my big boss man to not be tanked by some smug line sergeant in artificer armour in combat...

 

Is it a waste of his initiative to give him a solarite guantlet?

Shield-Captains can take Paragon Spears, which are strictly better paragon blades. Those fit the bill of what you want, though not quite SWORD and board.

 

However, keep in mind that you don't get the improved spear profile for charging if you also give him a shield! :)

[Nomadic Thunder]

Thanks for the quick reply! 

 

Ah yes, I got a little confused with the rules entries in the book and assumed the restiction on two handed weapons for the shields meant spears.

I can't seem to find any two handed custodes weapons looking through now though... odd.

 

I suppose i could allow myself to forgoe a S7 charge for -1 to hit and a 3++

 

On a side note are sisters of silence not an option for talons of the emperor anymore or do i need to get another book?

[Darkwrath121]

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

Ah yes, I got a little confused with the rules entries in the book and assumed the restiction on two handed weapons for the shields meant spears.

I can't seem to find any two handed custodes weapons looking through now though... odd.

 

I suppose i could allow myself to forgoe a S7 charge for -1 to hit and a 3++

 

On a side note are sisters of silence not an option for talons of the emperor anymore or do i need to get another book?

The Sisters are in book 7, but are still part of the same army :)

The Custodes by themselves are updated/reprinted in book 8 to rebalance some of their rules.

[Nomadic Thunder]

Got it, thanks a lot!

 

Edit: 1 more question!

 

How are venetari to play?

All spears in a 5 man unit? i think they look super cool but, like the pallas are they just a bit of a flop?

They would be cool with the bucklers and a 2+ save...

Edited April 1, 2020 by Nomadic Thunder

[Charlo]

They're Custodes but FAST, which removes their main weakness. However they're also a little lighter armoured so you have to be careful with them.

[Slips]

The advantage of the shield is making them pseudo 2+ save by ignoring AP3 weapons. Thats the main reason why you'd want to keep shields on a few of them so that they can tank anything that would actually threaten your spear guys.

[Nomadic Thunder]

Gotcha, thanks guys!

[Grey40k]

Looking for some advise on creating a viable list with Custodes + Auxilia / militia allies.

 

For example, are artillery pieces overcosted / ineffective?

 

Any rookie traps within custodes units?

 

Is there a way to get rough rider equivalents (for instance, death riders) on the table "legally"?

 

Thanks in advance!

[The Scorpion]

Looking for some advise on creating a viable list with Custodes + Auxilia / militia allies.

 

For example, are artillery pieces overcosted / ineffective?

 

Any rookie traps within custodes units?

 

Is there a way to get rough rider equivalents (for instance, death riders) on the table "legally"?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

1) Concerning heavy ordnance batteries: If you're taking these hopefully your army has good leadership modifying rules since the crew only have LD 6 and will abandon the gun if they have to fall back. You can have Medusa guns instead which is more cost for the same risk, albeit at the benefit of S10. Either keep these WELL out of the way, or bump their leadership as high as you can.

 

2) The Coronus grav-carrier is a rookie trap. It's not an assault transport, and since every single custodian can buy teleportation trasponders on their own, it's never worth it.

Terminators are also a trap, but to a lesser extent. All custodes already have 2+ saves and invulns. You would be paying for the weapon options.

 

3) Alas no. The fast attack choices of militia are limited to Sentinels, flyers, and Terrax drills.

Edited June 7, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Grey40k]

 

Looking for some advise on creating a viable list with Custodes + Auxilia / militia allies.

 

For example, are artillery pieces overcosted / ineffective?

 

Any rookie traps within custodes units?

 

Is there a way to get rough rider equivalents (for instance, death riders) on the table "legally"?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

1) Concerning heavy ordnance batteries: If you're taking these hopefully your army has good leadership modifying rules since the crew only have LD 6 and will abandon the gun if they have to fall back. You can have Medusa guns instead which is more cost for the same risk, albeit at the benefit of S10. Either keep these WELL out of the way, or bump their leadership as high as you can.

 

2) The Coronus grav-carrier is a rookie trap. It's not an assault transport, and since every single custodian can buy teleportation trasponders on their own, it's never worth it.

Terminators are also a trap, but to a lesser extent. All custodes already have 2+ saves and invulns. You would be paying for the weapon options.

 

3) Alas no. The fast attack choices of militia are limited to Sentinels, flyers, and Terrax drills.

 

Thanks for the tips! I read somewhere that there were rules for cavalry in one of the many books; that's why I asked.

 

I was checking about custodes anti-terminator options. Jeez, I love how termies are terrifying in 30K.

 

PS - As for the aquilon termies; they do seam to be extremely expensive for what they do (compared to other termies). But I was wondering what would be the best way to face enemy termies and maybe they aren't as overcosted in that regard.

 

Quick question: does the preternatural skill rule override the unwieldly for aquilons?

 

Another question: why do venatari have specialist weapon with their lances? do they get +1 attack?

Edited June 7, 2020 by Grey40k

[Nomadic Thunder]

The venetari would get +1 for charging but not an extra +1 for two combat weapons if they replace their pistol and shield basher thing for a spear.

 

And I’d say unwieldy overrides the preternatural skill rule but S10 ap1 fists are pretty good as they are.

Consider the fire pikes the termies get. S6 torrent templates can be pretty decent. Zone mortalis they’re ace as the get shred too.

The adrathic weapons are nice too if you’re going after enemy terminators as they’re ap2 and instant death for things with 2+ wounds like sekhmet, fire drakes, characters etc.

And the armour bane helps against enemy contemptors which will come hunting your tough guys and also against enemy vehicles and transports so you can shoot the transport and then assault the squad it was carrying.

 

Edit: point on aquillon terminators.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Nomadic Thunder

[Grey40k]

 

 

Looking for some advise on creating a viable list with Custodes + Auxilia / militia allies.

 

For example, are artillery pieces overcosted / ineffective?

 

Any rookie traps within custodes units?

 

Is there a way to get rough rider equivalents (for instance, death riders) on the table "legally"?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

1) Concerning heavy ordnance batteries: If you're taking these hopefully your army has good leadership modifying rules since the crew only have LD 6 and will abandon the gun if they have to fall back. You can have Medusa guns instead which is more cost for the same risk, albeit at the benefit of S10. Either keep these WELL out of the way, or bump their leadership as high as you can.

 

2) The Coronus grav-carrier is a rookie trap. It's not an assault transport, and since every single custodian can buy teleportation trasponders on their own, it's never worth it.

Terminators are also a trap, but to a lesser extent. All custodes already have 2+ saves and invulns. You would be paying for the weapon options.

 

3) Alas no. The fast attack choices of militia are limited to Sentinels, flyers, and Terrax drills.

 

Thanks for the tips! I read somewhere that there were rules for cavalry in one of the many books; that's why I asked.

 

I was checking about custodes anti-terminator options. Jeez, I love how termies are terrifying in 30K.

 

PS - As for the aquilon termies; they do seam to be extremely expensive for what they do (compared to other termies). But I was wondering what would be the best way to face enemy termies and maybe they aren't as overcosted in that regard.

 

Quick question: does the preternatural skill rule override the unwieldly for aquilons?

 

Another question: why do venatari have specialist weapon with their lances? do they get +1 attack?

 

 

The answers are appreciated!

 

The venatari confused me, why on earth do they give it the rule specialist weapon if they don't intend to do anything with it? Or am I missing anything?

As for the aquilon, before I invested in them I was checking if the models with flamer can get fists (without conversions). It does not look like it (checking forgeworld), which was very confusing to me. Also, is there a FAQ anywere clarifying the preternatural bit? I don't doubt you, but I'd like to be able to quote something.

 

Finally, thanks for the tip on adrathic.

[Slips]

Re Preternatural Skill & Unwieldy: It comes down to order of operations:

1. Custodes Unit enters close combat.
2. Compare Weapon Skill of both units: if Custodes unit is higher, +1I otherwise no bonus.
3. Perform any "before initiative step 10" abilities, if any.
4. Begin initiative step countdown from 10.
5. Reach initiative step of the custodes unit (either modified or not): Does the models weapon have any special rules that change its initiative? y/n? if no, attack with weapon as normal. If yes, continue down.
6. Reach new modified initiative for Custodes, perform attacks as normal.

Re: Aquilon Terminators: Theyve since been buffed to have the same statline as Haeteron Guard and are the only source for Infernus Firepikes in the army as well as having a baseline 4++ invulnerable save instead of the normal 5++ custodes have. Can also Sweep (Indomitus/Cataphractii) and Overwatch (Cataphractii) unlike Terminators for space marines.

[Nomadic Thunder]

Happy to help, it’s tricky getting used to lots of rules and such and learning what all this stuff actually does other than look super cool!

 

About the spears, I’m not really sure to be honest. Maybe if they planned on other units or a character being able to wield them in the future it may add a little balance/restriction to having multiple weapons. Like with the powerfist paragon blade preator set up...

 

I think you might have to acquire fists or firepikes from bits sellers or other means to save from having lots of excess terminators.

 

https://eggheadminiatures.com/products/warhammer-40k-legio-custodes-aquilon-terminator-infernus-firepike-flamer-c

 

For example, or maybe Etsy/shapeways sellers?

 

I’m away from books at the minute so can’t quote anything about the unwieldy v preternatural senses. Maybe someone else can shine some light on that one.

 

Edit: slips is a ninja and already answered the unwieldy question.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Nomadic Thunder

[Grey40k]

Thanks, folks! This is being very helpful. The good thing about forums is that it stays here for other rookies.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I just started a Legio Custodes army, and I'm very curious about something. My local groups use the Mournival rules, and so custodes units suffer a 25pt tax per unit. I need to supplement my obsec, since nothing has implacable advance, and I was wondering if sisters of silence are worthwhile in doing that?

[Charlo]

I just started a Legio Custodes army, and I'm very curious about something. My local groups use the Mournival rules, and so custodes units suffer a 25pt tax per unit. I need to supplement my obsec, since nothing has implacable advance, and I was wondering if sisters of silence are worthwhile in doing that?

 

Custodes absolutely do not need any tax with the most recent FAQ. It was brutal to them. That aside...

 

Yeah, Sisters are good at sitting on objectives. As good as T3 3+ bodies are. They're cheap though, so you cna't go wrong!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Custodes absolutely do not need any tax with the most recent FAQ. It was brutal to them. That aside...

 

Was there a more recent FAQ than 9 July 2018? I played 2 games with them this past friday and I got absolutely mollywhopped both games. My opponent's list just manhandled mine in a most unwholesome way, but my local groups insist that the Tax is fair. I disagree, but then I suppose I'm not running the most optimized cheese list I can. I'm running saggitarum, a telemon, aquilons in a coronus, and I've got 15 guardians (9 spear guys and 6 sword and board guys). I'm not even running Valdor, just a regular Shield Captain.

 

 

Yeah, Sisters are good at sitting on objectives. As good as T3 3+ bodies are. They're cheap though, so you cna't go wrong!

Sisters are the way my local groups allow you to get around the tax. You have to run 50% sisters to avoid it, which just isn't what I want to do. I wouldn't mind having some (30 or so prosecutors, with the HQ) but running 1500pts of sisters at 3k just isn't appealing.

 

Then there's the fact that Custodes have very little in the way of options for counter threats, like the only aircraft available to take on other flyers are the Orion and the Ares, both of which are insanely costed for a anti air threat, so I'm having to consider an aegis line with a quad gun, as unsatisfying as that is, or having to ally for a flyer.