mc warhammer Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 In the Khyme short story, Fulgrim had a stable of imperfect Ferrus clones that he was churning through one by one in an attempt to reach some sort of goal. He'd become enraged and kill each one for what he saw as imperfections (the only one that comes to mind was the lack of silver arms). It's been a while since I've read this, but a few brain worms have popped into my head and they aren't letting go; can anyone remind me what the other imperfections were and what (even if it is conjecture) Fulgrim's ultimate goal was? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 To see if he could have turned him against the Emperor. The only imperfection was his arms, as he had acquired them in later life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Wait...so Fulgrim was capable of creating perfect Ferrus clones? The arms wouldn't matter. A clone of Ferrus shouldn't come with the arms Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Fabius was. Remember that he had Ferrus's corpse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 That, and the Gene-tech stolen by the Alpha Legion. And by Talon of Horus, he got quite good at cloning. Fabius had already made great strides by Angel Exterminatus, and Imperfect follows on a time after that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Actually he only had the blood from his sword. Iirc he says as much in the story. The body was hacked to pieces according to..Deathfire I didn't like the story from a lore stand point. While a very good story, wasn't the gene tech sabotaged? And isn't it they point with Fabius that his hubris is so large that he constantly thinks he has surpassed the Emperor's ability despite his crazy abominations? Then again maybe the Ferrus clones are more warped(not the chaos term but maybe that too) than what we are able to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 My mistake. I haven't read it in a long time and have never read Deathfire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4545910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 My mistake. I haven't read it in a long time and have never read Deathfire. And never do read it. Save your brain from mazochistic pain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4546182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Yeah Ferrus original was hacked to pieces by the horde of traitor marines. A nice way to go for someone who was apparently "well ard" (but pretty crap in all other aspects) I really don't like him. He was a loser and not exactly as legendary as I like Primarchs to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4546585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 thanks for the responses! Morovir ,fulgrim's goal was so obvious i'm head smacking myself for missing/forgetting it. i was overthinking that one. though i'm pretty sure a few "imperfections" were hinted at beyond the arms, they were probably meant to be vaguely cloney imperfections. maybe ferrus' eyebrows weren't right. can't wait until all the clones get together and break out as team ferrus and head straight to the siege of terra to drop the vengeful spirit's shields amongst other hijinks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4548046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 My reading of it was that Fulgrim was annoyed that he couldn't turn Ferrus clones. The point of the story is that Fulgrim is so up his own ass that he feels that he ought to be able to turn Ferrus. The imperfection was Fulgrim's own failure which he passive aggressively takes out on the clones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4548442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My reading of it was that Fulgrim was annoyed that he couldn't turn Ferrus clones. The point of the story is that Fulgrim is so up his own ass that he feels that he ought to be able to turn Ferrus. The imperfection was Fulgrim's own failure which he passive aggressively takes out on the clones. And - even if he would have 'turned' one of clones? What then? He can't reverse time. It's all pointless - as a story is another not needed filler which has overburdened the good HH stuff to date Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4549157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It's just him trying to prove to an old friend that he was right and loyalty is not the only way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4549258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My reading of it was that Fulgrim was annoyed that he couldn't turn Ferrus clones. The point of the story is that Fulgrim is so up his own ass that he feels that he ought to be able to turn Ferrus. The imperfection was Fulgrim's own failure which he passive aggressively takes out on the clones. And - even if he would have 'turned' one of clones? What then? He can't reverse time. It's all pointless - as a story is another not needed filler which has overburdened the good HH stuff to date Yeah, when I first read Imperfection I thought it was all about regret and Fulgrm lamenting the death of Ferrus. Almost like 'If only i'd been better Ferrus would still be alive and we would still be bro-mancing it up'. However, after a few re-reads (bearing in mind how far along this story takes place) i found a reading which was all abut Fulgrim's hurt pride at not being able to turn Ferrus. If Fulgrim did manage to turn a clone I suspect he would either give himself a pat on the back and crack on with doing all the hedonism stuff (turning Ferrus is on his bucket list) or he would still suffer a niggling doubt whether the clones are sufficiently Ferrus and this would leave him with an everlasting dent to his pride. It is filler (like most of the shorts), but I found it welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4549483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I liked the story. It shows the nagging, clawing, annoying pain of failure is inescapable for him. Save for Slanesh itself, he is hubris incarnate. He failed with Ferrus. I didn't like that Fabius is the master cloner. Perhaps they retconned DL, and the Gene-tech the AL gave him wasn't tampered with. I know the Horus clone from lore, but I always figured that that was aided by the Chaos gods as a test for Abaddon. Meh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4550029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 It's too early on for Fabius to be pumping out Primarch clones and especially at this rate and quality. It just cheapens the story of Abaddon killing the Horus clone in Talon of Horus. The point was that all the clones were messed up failures, apart from the Horus one which was because of Fabius stealing the body. Now it doesn't make any sense. If Fabius can make multiple Ferrus clones without problem, why not multiple Fulgrim, Lorgar, etc. clones in Talon of Horus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4550108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I've never understood how they made a Horus clone with the body when apparently Horus was completely destroyed by The Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4550120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I've never understood how they made a Horus clone with the body when apparently Horus was completely destroyed by The Emperor. I always understood it was his soul/warp presence that was destroyed not his body. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4550236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Probably! Hopefully the text will make it clear when the HH series gets there. Hopefully his head will pop like the heads popped in TBA. That would be a glorious ending for a naughty boy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4551330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I liked the story. It shows the nagging, clawing, annoying pain of failure is inescapable for him. Save for Slanesh itself, he is hubris incarnate. He failed with Ferrus. I didn't like that Fabius is the master cloner. Perhaps they retconned DL, and the Gene-tech the AL gave him wasn't tampered with. I know the Horus clone from lore, but I always figured that that was aided by the Chaos gods as a test for Abaddon. Meh. Fabius in this short is more 'knowledgable' and proffessional than his W40K counterpart, lol. If he was such an amazing cloner and genetech why he is still not a master of the Universe in W40K lol I've never understood how they made a Horus clone with the body when apparently Horus was completely destroyed by The Emperor. I always understood it was his soul/warp presence that was destroyed not his body. Lore changes again. And again and again - not in a good way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4551728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Well, we didn't hear much about 40k Fabius in a long while. The 13th Black Crusade is being revised now, and Fabius is getting a trilogy by Josh Reynolds. The fluff on Fabius post-Heresy is pretty limited all around, though some things like the Horus clone get brought up frequently. I'd say wait and see. The Horus Heresy Fabius is fairly consistent and still isn't perfect, and even the Horus clone was somehow flawed still. Visually stunning and powerful, but not the same as Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4552089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 My reading of it was that Fulgrim was annoyed that he couldn't turn Ferrus clones. The point of the story is that Fulgrim is so up his own ass that he feels that he ought to be able to turn Ferrus. The imperfection was Fulgrim's own failure which he passive aggressively takes out on the clones. And - even if he would have 'turned' one of clones? What then? He can't reverse time. It's all pointless - as a story is another not needed filler which has overburdened the good HH stuff to date Yeah, when I first read Imperfection I thought it was all about regret and Fulgrm lamenting the death of Ferrus. Almost like 'If only i'd been better Ferrus would still be alive and we would still be bro-mancing it up'. However, after a few re-reads (bearing in mind how far along this story takes place) i found a reading which was all abut Fulgrim's hurt pride at not being able to turn Ferrus. If Fulgrim did manage to turn a clone I suspect he would either give himself a pat on the back and crack on with doing all the hedonism stuff (turning Ferrus is on his bucket list) or he would still suffer a niggling doubt whether the clones are sufficiently Ferrus and this would leave him with an everlasting dent to his pride. It is filler (like most of the shorts), but I found it welcome. i think part of what Fulgrim was, and what the god he now follows represents, is something that can ultimately never be achieved. Always wanting more. It's greed, it's arrogance, it's hubris, its all those 'sins' - he would have been happy at being able to turn one clone, but would have disposed of him and still found a reason as to why it's not enough. Because the real Ferrus is dead. but then again, i found this story to be unnecessary filler so Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4552283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 My reading of it was that Fulgrim was annoyed that he couldn't turn Ferrus clones. The point of the story is that Fulgrim is so up his own ass that he feels that he ought to be able to turn Ferrus. The imperfection was Fulgrim's own failure which he passive aggressively takes out on the clones. And - even if he would have 'turned' one of clones? What then? He can't reverse time. It's all pointless - as a story is another not needed filler which has overburdened the good HH stuff to date Yeah, when I first read Imperfection I thought it was all about regret and Fulgrm lamenting the death of Ferrus. Almost like 'If only i'd been better Ferrus would still be alive and we would still be bro-mancing it up'. However, after a few re-reads (bearing in mind how far along this story takes place) i found a reading which was all abut Fulgrim's hurt pride at not being able to turn Ferrus. If Fulgrim did manage to turn a clone I suspect he would either give himself a pat on the back and crack on with doing all the hedonism stuff (turning Ferrus is on his bucket list) or he would still suffer a niggling doubt whether the clones are sufficiently Ferrus and this would leave him with an everlasting dent to his pride. It is filler (like most of the shorts), but I found it welcome. i think part of what Fulgrim was, and what the god he now follows represents, is something that can ultimately never be achieved. Always wanting more. It's greed, it's arrogance, it's hubris, its all those 'sins' - he would have been happy at being able to turn one clone, but would have disposed of him and still found a reason as to why it's not enough. Because the real Ferrus is dead. but then again, i found this story to be unnecessary filler so well it depends on what you're looking for; character or plot. plot wise, it doesn't contribute much. but as an exploration of character, i think it's rather neat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4554715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Exactly. A lot of readers just want story progression and anything that doesn't add significant parts of that is considered filler by them. Many stories don't try to gun for plot progression, though, and instead try to highlight characters and develop them, or give a deeper understanding of how they tick. Imperfect is one of those, as is Warmaster by John French (which was bloody excellent, especially the way Ramon Tikaram delivered it), or Virtues of the Sons & Sins of the Father by Andy Smillie for Sanguinius, Azkaellon and Amit. It is easy to dismiss said stories as "filler", maybe a little tougher to realize what implications they have for the characters, the course of the Heresy and how they enrich the setting by exploring the actors and their motivations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4555025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 Exactly. A lot of readers just want story progression and anything that doesn't add significant parts of that is considered filler by them. Many stories don't try to gun for plot progression, though, and instead try to highlight characters and develop them, or give a deeper understanding of how they tick. Imperfect is one of those, as is Warmaster by John French (which was bloody excellent, especially the way Ramon Tikaram delivered it), or Virtues of the Sons & Sins of the Father by Andy Smillie for Sanguinius, Azkaellon and Amit. It is easy to dismiss said stories as "filler", maybe a little tougher to realize what implications they have for the characters, the course of the Heresy and how they enrich the setting by exploring the actors and their motivations. yep, really enjoyed "warmaster" too, and "little horus" for similar reasons. i'll check out the others soon. i feel like sometimes these things catch like some sort of virus, once a large enough group start to complain about "progressing the story" and "filler", others latch on to that as a yardstick to measure every story by even if that isn't the aim of a particular story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327280-fulgrim-and-the-ferrus-clones/#findComment-4555518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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