Robzilla Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 So, with the release of plastic Tartaros, and with the masses of Cataphractii already out there, I thought I would start a thread to see how people will be utilising the different marks of armour. I know these kind of threads have opposed up in the past, but with the recent(ish) update to armour, and the new plastic Tartaros, I thought I'd earth the discussion up again for another bout. In my eyes FW have done a reasonably good job of balancing the two, in that there are sufficient pros and cons to both. So what do people use and where? In my eyes, Tartaros is potentially much better off as a small, mobile, bully unit. 5 men in a dreadclaw deal, sent in to butcher elite non combat units (seekers spring to mind), where the lack of a 4+ invulnerable save won't be as noticeable. As an alternative, wading into tac blobs and pushing for a sweep with impunity is also a solid move. As such, equipping with claws, or power weapons, may not be a bad investment, considering the targets. As for Cataphractii, I see this as a mutual annihilation unit. Send in a big squad against the nasty things you don't want hitting your line, and hope the invulnerable saves hold out. Whilst there are plenty of units that will eat Cataphractii, there is not many who can stand the squads output back. Especially if in a combat legion, or if properly buffed. I won't get in to ideas for specific units in each legion, (typing on my phone doesn't lend itself to essays) as legion traits change things up a fair bit I think. But what are other people's thoughts and opinions? Any builds or tactics you are planning on running, or have had success with? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Salamanders can take storm shields, right? So there you have your good ol' Hammernators, but now they can make sweeping advances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I don't own any super heavies or knights. Whilst I grow my army I've found 5 x cataphractii, combi meltas and chain fists in a dreadclaw as a useful counter to typhons/ Glaives and even knights at a push. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Salamanders can take storm shields, right? So there you have your good ol' Hammernators, but now they can make sweeping advances.Salamander's only get a plus 1 to their unvulnerable save, so the ability to sweep and a 4++ at best. Imperial Fists Vigil pattern storm shields grant a stock 3++ buts it's contentious whether Tartaros termies can take them or not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 IH cataphractii are tough as old boots when sitting a objective Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Overall, I think cataphractii is just better. Nine times out of ten I'd rather just have that extra point for my invul save, considering I've invested often 35-40pts in each terminator model. Sweeping is nice, but it's easy to kill power armored units, hardly need terminators to do that. I'd rather have them focus on the heaviest targets, and the extra invul save will help them survive those ap2 blasts that terminators attract so often. Sweeping advance just isn't good enough a buff to me to justify using cataphractii. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Salamanders can take storm shields, right? So there you have your good ol' Hammernators, but now they can make sweeping advances.Salamander's only get a plus 1 to their unvulnerable save, so the ability to sweep and a 4++ at best. Imperial Fists Vigil pattern storm shields grant a stock 3++ buts it's contentious whether Tartaros termies can take them or not You are right on both counts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Tartaros have a nice Niche of being able to sweep with a Primarch. Creates a nice hail Mary punch unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Quite a long one, but here is a write up of how I have armed both my Terminator Squads, how they will be used and how my choice of Legion impacts them; as well as a brief conclusion about which I prefer. Hopefully it's of some use to you. Cataphractii Loadout: 4 Combi-Plasma, Plasma Blaster, 3 Lightning Claws and 2 Chainfists How I Use Them: Joined by Praetor with Combi-Plasma and Paragon Blade. They essentially hunt down and tie up major targets (Elites with 2+/3+ Saves, Multi-wound models, Characters or Vehicles), relying on 2+ Armour Save and 4+ Inv to keep them alive. Plasma Weapons can eliminate threats at range as they close in (especially targets who can hurt them at range but are not worth engaging in combat - I.e. Plasma Support Squad: 12 Plasma shots will ruin them at 12" before they can harm the Terminators). Legion Special Rules: (Word Bearers) I make use of Dark Channelling on this unit (one of the only units I'll buy it for) as many of the benefits are very useful. Although gaining Daemon is a waste, Zealot is fantastic and would be my preferred result as it gives the squad Hatred and Fearless (which confers to the Praetor) to greatly improve their combat effectiveness while +1 Strength is nothing to look down on as it means S5 Claws and S10 Chainfists. Tartaros Loadout: 5 Volkite Chargers, 3 Lightning Claws and 2 Thunder Hammers. How I Use Them: These will be built for my smaller Word Bearers Zone Mortalis Force. Whilst my Breachers will a solid anvil with Erebus granting Zealot, these will be the hammer, to break large units and counter Elites. I feel they will be more useful than Cataphractii in Zone Mortalis as their speed will give them the advantage, whilst more cover should make up for a reduced Inv. Main targets would be blobs of 3+ Saves (where Concussive and Low AP can quickly reduce their numbers) and Elite Troops. I chose Volkite for a high number of decent strength shots. Legion Special Rules: (Word Bearers) The bonus Word Bearers receive to Sweeping Advances will be a bonus to Tartaros Terminators. Like the Cataphractii, I would use Dark Channelling and hope for Zealot or +1 Strength (no real preference on these). Conclusion I would personally prefer the Cataphractii to the Tartaros in normal games as they have a much greater role than can be fulfilled with the better Inv. However, in a Zone Mortalis game, the Tartaros benefits combine nicely with the Word Bearers rules and would become my preferred choice for their increased mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Cataphractii all the way. The invulnerable save is amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Sally Tartaros may get shields but not adding their iniative to sweeps meams they can only stand a chance at sweeping very few things :( Such a restrictive rule :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Tartaros, imo, can be better if they join a Tanky character. Cataphractii can be a bit slow but the invul is definitely appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4548884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjasuperspy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I like the idea of Alpha Legion Combi-weapon Terminators in Tartaros armor taking advantage of both halves of Dynat's Harrowing rules (Bonus to Sweeps & Bonus to Vehicle Damage) but I've got no real concept of how useful it would be on the tabletop itself. That said I do like the look of Tartaros armor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4549514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Caraphractii in small squads and when deep striking. Tartaros in melee Death Stars meant to sweep (like Phoenix Terminators). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4550054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Tartaros in command squads cata everywhere else seems to work best Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327383-tartaros-vs-cataphractii-what-to-use-and-where/#findComment-4550150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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