General ferox need ure advice

[Ferox]

Im going to play a casual game against a friend. He is running a sm iron fist army with 1 landraider with 5 cc terminators, and 2 dreads, 1 rhino with 10 man squad, 1 scout and liberian.

 

How do counter that Cc units, i can field 3 vanquishers (2 are full magnetized) and 3 melta vets and some plasma vets.

[WarriorFish]

We could do with a bit more information - what point limit is the game and what models do you have available? It doesn't look like an insurmountable list, opening the LR up quickly to take out the contents will be good - melta Vets could do tha. Then you can handle the Dreads and you'll be looking good (if they're normal AV12 ones not too much trouble especially with Vanquishers).

 

Otherwise some cheap infantry to hold them off from your tanks would help. Arm them with flamers and grenade launchers to keep costs down and they'll handle infantry ok.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

More information would be very helpful. What is the loadout for the CC Termies? Do they have power weapon/stormbolter, or did they take powerfists/chainfists? Are they dual lightning claw, or thunderhammer/stormshield? It makes a difference, because in order to counter them you'll need to know if the melee unit will be hitting at initiative, or if you'll get to swing first. 

 

It's not going to matter much, because we don't do melee well, but it does tell you if you want to tie the unit up with a blob. If he's taking anything except Dual Lightning Claws you can afford to just try to tie it up, because he'll only be putting out 2 attacks per model (total of 10) after the first turn of combat. Tying up TH/SS termies, will be good because he wants to get those hammernators into combat with your tanks. Don't let him.

 

If he takes the dual lightning claws however, you'll want to shoot it dead. DLC will put an extra attack on the termies, and they hit at initiative, that will mean 20 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's and re-rolling failed to wounds. It drops to 15 Attacks per turn, still hitting and wounding on 3's and re-rolling failed wounds. You will not survive that, and trying to tie it up won't happen for long. If he rolls perfectly, and you roll average, he could chew through your entire tarpit in a single turn. That will lose you valuable units and they won't have done their job.

 

In either case, you'll need to force them out of their land raider. I also need to know which land raider he'll e using. The Regular LR is a threat at longer range, due to the lascannons and heavy bolters, and the crusader/redeemer are hellish threats at closer range. The Vanquishers and melta vets will be your best defense and the land raider should be priority one. Pop it, or immobilize it, and his CC unit will have to walk, then it's a matter of keeping his melee guys away from stuff. His big scoring units will be the tacticals and the scouts, chances are using Imperial fists, he'll take sniper scouts, and set them on an objective.

 

I need to know what other units you have, how many tanks do you have? Any chimeras? Any artillery? All these things will be important. I'm assuming that your opponent is using a Combined Arms detachment, and not one of those god awful decurions? That will also influence things.

 

Information is Ammunition.

[M@verik115]

I like your opponent. 
A very nice and normal SM build I haven't seen in years. 
As for defeating him, it depends on what you have, but I find massed lasguns are such a nice and humiliating way of dropping terminators. 
The vanquishers should pop the LR no problem. 
As for everything else in that list, it can be taken down with whatever you have lying around. 

[WarriorFish]

Humiliating? Lasguns are my most common Terminator solution... which is really depressing when you think about it It's a list a little light on infantry, other than that it's a normal enough one. Break the LR component (and perhaps Librarian) and the game should be quite winnable :)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Humiliating? Lasguns are my most common Terminator solution... which is really depressing when you think about it It's a list a little light on infantry, other than that it's a normal enough one. Break the LR component (and perhaps Librarian) and the game should be quite winnable :)

I think he was referring to the humiliation the opponent will feel when his mighty smashy dudes are felled by a whack of angry flashlights.

[WarriorFish]

No, for a Marine player fielding Terminators it is "normal" sadly. Most die to massed small arms fire rather than the likes of plasma... It's why they don't especially concern me when I'm fielding my Guard

[duz_]

Sounds like a job for some melta/plasma vets, a demolisher (or two) and a wyvren :)

Pad out with liberal application of infantry squads

 

Sounds like it will be a fun game

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I like your opponent. 

A very nice and normal SM build I haven't seen in years. 

As for defeating him, it depends on what you have, but I find massed lasguns are such a nice and humiliating way of dropping terminators. 

The vanquishers should pop the LR no problem. 

As for everything else in that list, it can be taken down with whatever you have lying around. 

You'd have liked the Templar Player at my last gaming store. 

 

Here is his typical list:

Hidden Content

HQ:

Terminator Chapter Master with TH/SS

 

Elites:

7 Hammernators in a Land Raider Crusader

10 Sternguard Combi-meltas, and meltaguns in a drop pod

 

Troops:

2 Crusader Squads (8 initiates 8 Neophytes) in land raider crusaders

 

Heavy Support:

2 Vindicators with siege shield.

 

That was a rough list to face. Tabled me in 2 turns...

[Shamansky]

Casn ask to see your list Ulrik?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Casn ask to see your list Ulrik?

Unfortunately no. I threw it out, since it consistently did poorly, and I don't remember exactly what was in it (I have added much to my wolves since then). It was also a Space Wolves list, since that was my only army at the time. 

 

My usual Krieg list might have fared better though. More bodies, more tanks (3 vanquishers would ensure that his land raiders had not made it to the midfield), better aircraft. 

 

I also tend to include knights now, which give me a tremendous advantage in mobility and CC against vehicles. 

[Shamansky]

Ah, wolves. Nevermind

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ah, wolves. Nevermind

Don't misunderstand me, I love my Space Wolves. I just didn't figure my list was relevant to the discussion.

 

Anyhow, that particular player was undefeated in challenges. I played him a few times against his other armies and won, I won against his Tau, and his Eldar, though in those instances I was catching him at a point where I was familiar with my army, and he was learning new ones.

[M@verik115]

 

I like your opponent. 

A very nice and normal SM build I haven't seen in years. 

As for defeating him, it depends on what you have, but I find massed lasguns are such a nice and humiliating way of dropping terminators. 

The vanquishers should pop the LR no problem. 

As for everything else in that list, it can be taken down with whatever you have lying around. 

You'd have liked the Templar Player at my last gaming store. 

 

Here is his typical list:

Hidden Content

HQ:

Terminator Chapter Master with TH/SS

 

Elites:

7 Hammernators in a Land Raider Crusader

10 Sternguard Combi-meltas, and meltaguns in a drop pod

 

Troops:

2 Crusader Squads (8 initiates 8 Neophytes) in land raider crusaders

 

Heavy Support:

2 Vindicators with siege shield.

 

That was a rough list to face. Tabled me in 2 turns...

 

Good honest Templar list that :D 

[Shamansky]

I like your opponent.

A very nice and normal SM build I haven't seen in years.

As for defeating him, it depends on what you have, but I find massed lasguns are such a nice and humiliating way of dropping terminators.

The vanquishers should pop the LR no problem.

As for everything else in that list, it can be taken down with whatever you have lying around.

You'd have liked the Templar Player at my last gaming store.

Here is his typical list:

Hidden Content

HQ:

Terminator Chapter Master with TH/SS

Elites:

7 Hammernators in a Land Raider Crusader

10 Sternguard Combi-meltas, and meltaguns in a drop pod

Troops:

2 Crusader Squads (8 initiates 8 Neophytes) in land raider crusaders

Heavy Support:

2 Vindicators with siege shield.

That was a rough list to face. Tabled me in 2 turns...

Good honest Templar list that

The unit of sternguards had not enough swords in my opinion.

[M@verik115]

I like your opponent.

A very nice and normal SM build I haven't seen in years.

As for defeating him, it depends on what you have, but I find massed lasguns are such a nice and humiliating way of dropping terminators.

The vanquishers should pop the LR no problem.

As for everything else in that list, it can be taken down with whatever you have lying around.

You'd have liked the Templar Player at my last gaming store.

Here is his typical list:

Hidden Content

HQ:

Terminator Chapter Master with TH/SS

Elites:

7 Hammernators in a Land Raider Crusader

10 Sternguard Combi-meltas, and meltaguns in a drop pod

Troops:

2 Crusader Squads (8 initiates 8 Neophytes) in land raider crusaders

Heavy Support:

2 Vindicators with siege shield.

That was a rough list to face. Tabled me in 2 turns...

Good honest Templar list that

The unit of sternguards had not enough swords in my opinion.

You are right!

They must have been Dark Angel indentured slaves on their penance duty.

[WarriorFish]

Back on topic, before the commissariat introduces your Marines to our Banewolf tanks...

[Ferox]

Thanks for all ure input, it realy helped me alot.

We played yesterday and it went very well. 1000 point list. Maelstrom mission

I used following list:

Hq vanq with lascannon with battle tank with HB

Elites 5 ratlings

Troop: platoon ccs 4 GL. 2 units x 2 GL, Hwt 3 autocannon, Sws with flamers.

Vets in chimera with plasma

Vets in chimera with melta.

 

He had

Liberian in 5 man grp

Termies in LR with 4 Powerfist

5 man 1 flamer in rhino

2 dreads 1 melta, 1 autocannon thingy

1 scout unit with snipers

 

I had some of the best dice luck ever in this game. I got to set up last and i seized the iniative. Got outflank and i choose the melta vets and Sws

First turn first shot the Vanq imobilezed the LR. And then the games was pritty settlede. Then the i could move around the table and take the points i needed. Turn 2 both my outflank units came in, sws burned the whole scout out of the board.

The ratling did very vel shooting 3 units the liberian squad, 2 termies, and a the flAmer dude. For only 50 point.

 

I won 11 to 4. It was great fun for me. But next time i think im going for the 2 vanq. The lrbt did little dammage,

[WarriorFish]

Well done Ferox :tu: I know I said dealing with the Land Raider would be key but I didn't expect you to disable it turn 1 :lol:;) With dice it is a game of luck, the trick is to make the most of it when you get it (or deal when you don't!) and that comes with experience :) Good to see you getting results from your Ratlings - I like them for this reason though mine have been under performing of late (currently sitting on the "Shelf of reflection" along with my Terminators...).

 

Do you have any thoughts on what expansions/different ideas you'd like to try next?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Excellent work! Vanquishers can be a bit mean (I had to stop taking them for a while, because my girlfriend at the time was kind enough to be my opponent, and I trounced her. I was in the dog house for a few hours after that. One shotted her monolith from the opposite corner...). 

 

I would keep the battle tank as the wingman. Vanquishers shine with BS4 (the wingman is BS3), and that battle tank will be useful for horde control. The LRBT did very little because he had very little to shoot at. Trust me, you've got a decent all comers list for 1000 points. 

[Ferox]

 

Do you have any thoughts on what expansions/different ideas you'd like to try next?

Next step is going to play with an all painted army.

After that i think i want 2 wyvern then go for an all magnetized hellhound. And 3 sentinels.

 

Hehe the ratling took alot focus from my meat wall. And kept hes liberian in cover.

[WarriorFish]

Sounds good, don't forget to update us with progress on your army :tu:

[Ferox]

Sounds good, don't forget to update us with progress on your army :tu:

 

I will do. But i have diffecoult time uploading pics to our forum

[WarriorFish]

Send me a PM if you need help, I'm part Techpriest :P