b1soul Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Scars portrays the Khan and Magnus as close friends. Alternative timelines fascinate me (thank you Dornian Heresy) and this one just crossed my mind: While meditating in his chambers, Yesugai receives a series of visions. From these visions Yesugai divines that the SW has recently been dispatched to Prospero in response to a well-intentioned but destructive act of sorcery by Magnus. Yesugai informs the Khan of his visions. The Khan is greatly concerned and fears that his father has enacted the ultimate sanction against Magnus. If that is true, the Khan strongly feels that Magnus and his entire legion do not deserve to be massacred by the savages of Fenris. The Khan ultimately decides that he cannot idly stand by as these events play out. He musters the bulk of the WS and makes for Prospero with all haste. If Russ' mission is to destroy, the Khan hopes to force Russ and his one legion to back down before the combined strength of two - after which, the Khan hopes to somehow reason with Russ and ultimately his father. If Russ attacks regardless, the Khan is willing to fight. The WS reach Prospero two months before the SW do. The Khan gains entrance into Mangnus' chamber and finds his brother despondent. The two engage in several days of private discussion. Ultimately, Magnus is swayed to the Khan's plan and decides that his legion, his people, his beloved planet will not perish under the blades of Russ and his savages. The Khan also learns from Magnus that Horus has broken his oath to the Emperor. Though he does not want to believe it, the Khan senses the sincere truth in Magnus' word. The Khan and Magnus agree that together the two legions will display a maximum show of force - hopefully to ward off the SW without bloodshed. But if blood is to be spilled, they will make the SW bleed. When Russ, Valdor, and their forces reach the Prospero system - to their great surprise, they are met and hailed by the combined fleets of the WS and TSons. Knowing the relationship between Magnus and Russ, the Khan alone speaks with Russ. The Khan explains Magnus' knowledge that Horus has turned against the Emperor. He reasons with Russ that Magnus only broke the Edict of Nikaea to send immediate warning of this monumental development. Russ replies to the Khan that the two of them should be standing side by side, that Magnus has placed too much belief in Warp-spawned visions, that as a result, the Emperor's grand plan for Mankind has now been jeopardized. Magnus must be sanctioned for his follow, Russ insists. The VIth are the sanction. The Khan counters that Russ should not blindly dismiss visions and warnings from Heaven. The Khan knows that Russ himself places belief in the casting of bones. Indeed, the Khan is here because Yesugai, his chief stormseer, saw visions of this potential disaster. These visions did not lie. Russ pauses. When he speaks, he is more diplomatic than the Khan expects. Russ asks the Khan to exercise common sense in choosing which visions to believe. Treachery by Horus is impossible. Horus is the first, the brightest, the best of them all. He loves their father the most and is the most beloved in return. On the other hand, that Magnus in his arrogance might violate Nikaea and bring sanction upon himself - is sadly to be expected. Russ asks the Khan to step aside. He will give the Khan and his legion 48 hours to leave Prospero. The Khan responds that he cannot. What do you guys think will happen? How does the remainder of the Heresy play out in this case? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 That sounds like the set-up for an even worse SW beating than the real story....If Russ was an idiot. I could see Russ pulling a tactical retreat to attempt to pull additional reinforcements from the Warmaster, only to find out that they won't be any. Russ's keen intelligence pick that something isn't right with Horus, and begins to consider what the lesser of the two evils would be to commit. Russ decides that He's better off alive and able to serve the Emperor rather than wasting a vital asset in a futile attempt to fulfill His wishes. Thus does Russ ally with Magnus and the Khan to investigate Horus. Magnus will answer to the Emperor after the greater threat has been eliminated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As soon as I read this subject title, I knew it would be good. This is something that would have been a fantastic 'in between' storyline. It's a very good thought and puts Khan into the uncomfortable mediator position between an unstoppable force and an unmovable object. This would be a very good tale, but the outcome? That would take some serious thought. lol There are very interesting personalities at work, not too mention the influence of Chaos.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Santar Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thus does Russ ally with Magnus and the Khan to investigate Horus. Magnus will answer to the Emperor after the greater threat has been eliminated. I want this. I want this so bad. True, we wouldn't really have as much of a Heresy story if the Sons and Wolves don't knock seven bells out of each other at Prospero and manage to form a shakily united front with the Khan, but still. I wasn't prepared for the feel of being reminded that we will never have heartwarming reconciliation between Russ and Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 In the end I think Magnus would end up going to Terra escorted by Khan and some white scars. Probably with a token TS honour guard as well. After all Russ' original orders were to arrest Magnus and bring him to Terra, Khan could probably convince Russ that he would ensure Magnus went to Terra, without the need for bloodshed. But you would avoid the destruction of significant parts of 2 legions and potentially the Imperium learning of the potential for the Heresy before Isstvan III. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As a Space Wolves fan, I couldn't imagine a better storyline than a good-cop bad-cop movie with Russ playing the impetuous insctinctive, Magnus being the smart charismatic guy and if you need to put the Khan in he can be the one shouting to keep them in check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As a Space Wolves fan, I couldn't imagine a better storyline than a good-cop bad-cop movie with Russ playing the impetuous insctinctive, Magnus being the smart charismatic guy and if you need to put the Khan in he can be the one shouting to keep them in check. What would Magnus' buddy cop name be? I've already got Jaghatai as The Khief and Russ as Gruuph Gryzzlesson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As a Space Wolves fan, I couldn't imagine a better storyline than a good-cop bad-cop movie with Russ playing the impetuous insctinctive, Magnus being the smart charismatic guy and if you need to put the Khan in he can be the one shouting to keep them in check. Ferrus only had one day left till retirement Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 As a Space Wolves fan, I couldn't imagine a better storyline than a good-cop bad-cop movie with Russ playing the impetuous insctinctive, Magnus being the smart charismatic guy and if you need to put the Khan in he can be the one shouting to keep them in check. Ferrus only had one day left till retirement #Primarchlivesmatter I had to Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 A full-scale war between the Thousand Sons and the White Scars on one side and the Space Wolves, the Legio Custodes and the Sisters of Silence* on the other? Cough. A question that might matter here is: who or what brings warp visions? If the Ruinous Powers have the monopoly of them, Yesugai would never be warned because the Chaos Gods in general want those two loyal Legions bled dry and Tzeentch in particular wants Magnus and the Thousand Sons all for himself. That said, I want to witness a campaign about the subject. Not play since I don't own any of the involved forces, but something as good as the Dornian Heresy Legio Imprint on the subject... well, I refer you to the picture above for my reaction. * oh yeah and those Sons of Horus too I guess. Ferrus only had one day left till retirement I'm not sure Ferrus even knows what retirement is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 In the above scenario, unless the Emperor or Malcador communicates with Russ in that 48hr period, in my opinion the Vlka Fenryka would cease to exist as they would be massacred by the combined Thousand Sons and White Scars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Space Wolves already took heavy losses against an unguarded and unprepared Prospero with it's defenses sabotaged and Magnus refusing to lead his Legion. Against the forces of two Legions and a fully prepared and readied Prospero it's unlikely they would survive if Russ pressed the attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Unlikely? More like impossible. The combined two legions would utterly destroy the Wolves I just think that barring some miraculous intervention or non-psyker proof of the fall of Horus, the Rout would attempt to carry out their orders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Unlikely? More like impossible. The combined two legions would utterly destroy the Wolves I just think that barring some miraculous intervention or non-psyker proof of the fall of Horus, the Rout would attempt to carry out their orders. Depends if they try to retreat midway through the battle. Even the Istvaan Dropsite Legions had a few survivors despite being in an even worse situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Unlikely? More like impossible. The combined two legions would utterly destroy the Wolves I just think that barring some miraculous intervention or non-psyker proof of the fall of Horus, the Rout would attempt to carry out their orders. Depends if they try to retreat midway through the battle. Even the Istvaan Dropsite Legions had a few survivors despite being in an even worse situation. They were essentially out of play during the heresy however. If it lasted longer, its entirely possible those could have been wiped out too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Unlikely? More like impossible. The combined two legions would utterly destroy the Wolves I just think that barring some miraculous intervention or non-psyker proof of the fall of Horus, the Rout would attempt to carry out their orders. Depends if they try to retreat midway through the battle. Even the Istvaan Dropsite Legions had a few survivors despite being in an even worse situation. Good point. I do think with the Fenrisian attitude towards the Warp that retreat wouldn't be an option for them, and once engaged the White Scars style of war would limit most retreat options Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 So if Russ pushes the conflict and the Space Wolves are decimated in a similar way to the shattered legions, where would that leave the Thousand Sons and White Scars in relation to loyalist and traitor forces? Magnus and the Khan would know that Horus plans betrayal but would be under the impression that the Emperor has ordered Russ to sanction Prospero. Would this push them into Horus's camp or would they head for terra or istvaan to bring news of the betrayal or would they attempt to remain neutral? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Russ wouldn't walk out of a fight with jaghatai. Mainly going on what mortarion can take and give out + how fast jaghatai is with a sword, even if valdor got involved there'd be a right royal mess and the imperium would be in a bigger mess than it already is. And as for the legion warfare, wolves can only snap their jaws at eagles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 In this scenario...which I've tried to keep true to the characters...Magnus and the Khan are not thirsting for SW blood. They are willing to defend themselves with lethal force. Neither does Russ have to follow through with his 48hr ultimatum If Russ is smart, he'll soon start to see the wisdom of a tactical retreat a la Corax vs. Curze & Lorgar. Valdor would likely counsel him in this direction. If Russ presses the attack but decides to pull out halfway...I don't think the WS and TSons will try to hound him into oblivion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Would Magnus let down the outer defences of Prospero on this Assault by the VIth with the White Scars on his side? That would throw a big Ankh shaped spanner into the works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4551995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Why would he do that. He would've just rejected the Khan's aid in the beginning Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4552001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Got a bit lost, had to reread the OP. I would say that Jaghati would not be able to leave the side of Magnus in this event. Especially after making haste towards the system and deciding that if blood was to be shed they would make the VIth bleed and the fact that they are now adamant in not letting the populations and planets get crushed under ceremite. Tying into what I was saying before, it really depends on what Magnus would decide to do, if he turns the defences off (as I believe he did in the original timeline, not too sure on this line of battle) The VI might stand somewhat of a chance, with them on, its going to be a massacre in Magnus and the Scars favour. Many times its been mentioned that once the VIth are unleashed, it can't be recalled, and I very much doubt Russ would just order a retreat in this scenario. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4552006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 In this scenario...which I've tried to keep true to the characters...Magnus and the Khan are not thirsting for SW blood. They are willing to defend themselves with lethal force. Neither does Russ have to follow through with his 48hr ultimatum If Russ is smart, he'll soon start to see the wisdom of a tactical retreat a la Corax vs. Curze & Lorgar. Valdor would likely counsel him in this direction. If Russ presses the attack but decides to pull out halfway...I don't think the WS and TSons will try to hound him into oblivion. While I can see the WS and TS not hounding the Wolves, i think that if the order to retreat came from Russ it'll likely come past the point of Legion effectiveness He sees himself as the guy to get ugly jobs done. I don't see him not trying to perform the duty given to him regardless of the odds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4552014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Wolves are of Fenris, presented with irrefutable proof of maleifcarum. They will attack and kill as many WS and TS as they are able to before dying themselves. Only Russ' actions matter, only he can hold them off. So the question is, would Russ spend his son's lives to protect the Imperium. Remember he has similar information concerning Horus for equal suspicious if less impressive sources. Ultimately the Primarchs all suffer from one flaw, lack of a true self and purpose. Its why they make such poor figureheads for the legions. Their children all have a solid understanding of who and what they are but as fathers they are all rudderless. They take on personas based on the first difficult circumstance they encounter and wear it until they die or runaway. Russ' whole identity is the 2nd son who's value is in doing anything his father might ask of him. He was asked to bring in Magnus that is what he will do or die trying, because the idea (at least at this moment in time) that who he thinks he is isn't who he is is far more troubling than the idea that Horus might be the arch heretic. He would attack, and in attacking he would let the wolves fight, and we know to what ends the children on Fenris would go. I doubt the WS and TS leave the sector as unmauled as speculated, and likely their influence in the HH is greatly reduced and delayed so that Terra is defended by only 2 legions and the remnants of the WS and TS are on the way late. Likely meaning the end of the Imperium as they know it. Truthfully if the Khan received that vision the correct course of action would be to take Magnus to their father himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4552015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Russ wouldn't walk out of a fight with jaghatai. Mainly going on what mortarion can take and give out + how fast jaghatai is with a sword, even if valdor got involved there'd be a right royal mess and the imperium would be in a bigger mess than it already is. And as for the legion warfare, wolves can only snap their jaws at eagles That is complete conjecture and very biased. When will people realise that WS's get special treatment and the Wolves don't. We have a plethora of moments were WS's are shown to be awesome fighers (and rightly so), but SW's? nope. Just poor mooks getting murdered by warlocks or AL and getting saved by DAs. Even Russ has never had a definitive showcase of his abilities. But I guess yeah, if you take BL's biased fluff at face value, the WS's will absolutely wreck the Wolves. sorry if I'm being overly negative, I'm having a bad day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327494-what-if-the-ws-got-involved-at-prospero/#findComment-4552048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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