Militarum Tempestus - how to...?

[MoGuy]

Hello guys!

 

So I am looking to get into collecting/playing Militarum Tempestus. I love the models and the fluff and I wanted to know a few things:

 

- How would you start collecting a ~1500 points force? The Start Collecting box seems obvious to me. Should I get it multiple times? I already have 2 Valkyries. :)

 

- I've got two Inquisitors and a few Crusaders and Assassins (along with a LR Crusader to transport them). Would they make good allies?

 

- Is it even possible to play the MT on a somewhat competitive level? How do the Stormtroopers fare against Space Marines and other strong(er) armies?

 

- Taking fortifications (Imperial Bastion etc.) seems interesting. I almost never see armies actually use their fortification slots (at least not on a non-competitive level). But hiding inside a building to protect those special-weapon-dudes seems like a good idea to me.

 

- Does the Militarum Tempestus actually have a gameplan or particular playstyle? I also play Dark Eldar and Ad Mech so I know how to handle T3 models. With the Tauroxes being fast transports the MT strike me as something akin to the Deldar maybe?

 

Would be awesome to get some advice here! 

 

 

[WarriorFish]

We have some experienced Stormtrooper commanders in the barracks, hopefully they can pop in for more detailed advice soon. The Start Collecting box is a great way to collect the army as you suspect, though you'd likely not need more than a couple commissars but even if you don't sell/trade them on still a good deal (even more so from an online reseller...) :)

 

The Inquisition makes for good friends to MT, and very fluffy too - but the codex is a limited one. You can do well, especially if you play like a Stormtrooper, but the limited codex will hold you back against the better builds. Not that it's impossible of course, but it will be uphill. Who dares wins though ;) I'm not sure if fortifications are that useful for a Stormie list as mobility is one of their best assets.

 

I would also compare MT to DE (only cooler, of course) - they're a glass hammer army and not for the faint hearted. A Stormie army always looks great on the table, and a victory is always earned as they are not an army for easy mode.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The Militarum Tempestus codex really needs allies to make it work. Astra Militarum Works well as an ally, especially when you need armor or air support. I really like Knights, so they too are a good choice. 

 

Inquisition is very fluffy and provides some much needed psyker support if you so choose. 

 

MT and DE are very similar in playstyle, so being as you play DE, you'll find yourself very comfortable with MT. 

 

You are among the Minority however (many of us do not care for the current MT models), but I look forward to seeing what you do with them. 

[General Strike]

I love the models, I just wish they didn't replace Karskins. I'm also planning, and have started collecting, my MT army, if you want some lists I can send them your way. I have three pure MT lists, one with Knights, and a few with knights and SMS.

[slowclinic]

I use MT as an allied detachment for my mech-guard list, and the way they perform on the table has got me wanting to have a dedicated MT force as well. There are a few good battle reports on YouTube, but this tournament report is one of the best resources for showing how they can work: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/05/04/militarum-tempestus-broadside-bash-tournament-report/

 

It's also something I've read multiple times. As you can see, he's allying a Knight because it fills a gap in the list and also becomes a large distraction.

 

The Hellrain Brigade is a great starting point, and I know of a number of players who are taking multiple detachments in the same force because the options it offers can cover a lot of ground. From what I've seen of others online, most will either play with 5-man units of Scions with two special weapons in a Taurox Prime, or MSU in Vendettas. What I've found to be most useful is to deep strike three 5-man units into the game; Command Squad with 4x Plasma Gun, and 2x Scions with 2x Melta each. There's an order that the command squad can issue on itself, giving the unit Preferred Enemy. I've managed to take out multiple MEQ and TEQ squads in games by getting them in rapid fire range and re-rolling 1's - fantastic! It's only 325pts for the three units too, which in the context of a full 1,850 army, you can fit a lot in.

 

But, that's just the way I run it. I'd say to check out some of the battle reports online.

[Sete]

Good man. I'm planning on making a few tempestus myself and ally them with Custodes SoS and assassins.

[MoGuy]

Thanks for the input, guys!

 

I do have a Knight Paladin (bought him 1 month before the Renegade Knight box dropped. DOH!) but almost never play him because my Ad Mech doesn't need him and playing him with my Dark Eldar just doesn't feel right. But with some Scions he would see the battlefield more often!

 

 

 

 Astra Militarum Works well as an ally, especially when you need armor or air support

 

I'm not gonna start collecting another army, just to make the Stormtroopers work. Astra Militarum also offers nothing my Ad Mech can't do at least equally good so I'm covered there, if I feel the need to use allies. ;)

 

 

 

You are among the Minority however (many of us do not care for the current MT models), but I look forward to seeing what you do with them. 

 

What? How can you people not appreciate those badass stormtrooper-armour? D: I haven't decided what colorscheme I'll go for. Probably black and red.

 

 

 

 I'm also planning, and have started collecting, my MT army, if you want some lists I can send them your way. I have three pure MT lists, one with Knights, and a few with knights and SMS. 

 

I would appreciate that! :)

 

Any tips on the loadout of the Taurox Prime? Are the missiles the go-to variant? 

 

If you are building a TAC (Take All Comers) list, how do you kit out your Scions? Just a mix of everything (3 squads with Plasma, 3 with Melter etc.)? I am pretty excited to finally get some squads that can take flamers! Dark Eldar only have their Medusae and the (baaad) Liquifier Gun and Ad Mech has flamers on the Kastelan Robots (which are almost always played with pure Phosphor) and the Servitors (which don't want to get close enough to use their flamers). Since a buddy of mine plays Orks I am stoked to finally be able to roast some Greenskins! >: )

 

As for anti-psyker: I would probably take a Culexus Assassin and use the Inquisition to buff my own troops/generate wrap charges.

[zero88]

The emperor's spear formation is a great ally because it gets you access to Vendettas. I like the ground attack formation as well.. you lose obsec but the twin linking is a huge boom. Because of MTs large access to low strength weapons it seems like the two favorite load outs for the Prime is the auto cannon with the missiles or battle cannon

[WarriorFish]

AdMech would make for good allies to MT, they could handle some of the things the Stormies would prefer not to and the Stormies can add some mobility and reach the AdMech would appreciate. It's only Marines who Scions don't easily mesh too well with as you're mixing a bit too much elite and elite. As mentioned a Knight is always useful but adds some real durability and a focus Stormies wouldn't have otherwise. Plus it's cool to imagine the enemy closing to try and deal with the Knight only to find he has some friends watching his back

The Taurox Prime is good, but woefully over priced once you start looking at upgrades. It's unfortunate there's no real choice usually, as you need some of the range and heavier fire power they can mount (unless you have allies). I'm hoping it gets some suitable buffs in an update, I wouldn't go for flamers on Scions usually as it's a waste of their abilities but if you're with your AdMech and need crowd control not necessarily a bad idea. Whatever you do, always focus a Stormie squad on a role and don't mix and match upgrade weapons. They need to focus on a task and do it well in most cases.

[General Strike]

I focus on the Hellrain formations, making the Scion Squads a 10 man squad with Meltaguns, and hide the Commissar's in a Valkyrie. So at lower points it is one or two Hellrains with a CAD, then higher I will either add a Knight and Skyhammer, two Knights, or a Aerial Assault formation. I give the non- Hellrain scions plasma guns, and my command scions flamers. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'm not gonna start collecting another army, just to make the Stormtroopers work. Astra Militarum also offers nothing my Ad Mech can't do at least equally good so I'm covered there, if I feel the need to use allies.

Normally I just take an Allied CAD from the FW Armored Brigade list (so it can be nothing but tanks, Sentinels and Thunderbolts I I desire). I definitely understand though, and I've been considering a Cybernetica Cohort to add to my forces. AdMech can be a great ally, and you'll find that beyond 1000 points C:MT is going to need help, since it really lacks in high strength weapons, and tough support units.

What? How can you people not appreciate those badass stormtrooper-armour? D: I haven't decided what colorscheme I'll go for. Probably black and red.

It's not that we don't appreciate them. I personally like them fine as stand alones, or as bases for conversion (Scions with Skitarii Vanguard heads would make beautiful Solar Auxilia). I just feel that their Aesthetic is out of place among the current range of Imperial Guard miniatures. I would have preferred that they be in addition to Kasrkin, and the 5E Stormtrooper models. Black and red would be pretty striking, and very inquisitorial.

Any tips on the loadout of the Taurox Prime? Are the missiles the go-to variant?

If you are building a TAC (Take All Comers) list, how do you kit out your Scions? Just a mix of everything (3 squads with Plasma, 3 with Melter etc.)? I am pretty excited to finally get some squads that can take flamers! Dark Eldar only have their Medusae and the (baaad) Liquifier Gun and Ad Mech has flamers on the Kastelan Robots (which are almost always played with pure Phosphor) and the Servitors (which don't want to get close enough to use their flamers). Since a buddy of mine plays Orks I am stoked to finally be able to roast some Greenskins! >: )

As for anti-psyker: I would probably take a Culexus Assassin and use the Inquisition to buff my own troops/generate wrap charges.

For the Taurox Prime, I like Autocannons and the Gatling cannon. The armor is paper thin, so you'll want to keep it as cheap as possible. Now, you can use them in Fast Attack, so if you want take some missile trucks as some backfield support that's cool, but keep your DT Primes cheap.

I take 2 Squads of Plasma and one Squad of melta. Command Squads are generally used as suicide Special Weapons so melta and plasma, using their one order to twin link their shooting. Feel free to use flamers, they're pretty good, as are plasma and melta. I'd stay away from the Volley Gun though, it's tempting, but you don't want your scions sitting still to use it effectively.

Your Anti-Psyker and Psyker Support ideas are 100% solid. 3 man Psyker henchmen squads to generate warp charges are pretty fantastic. I like taking my Scions in 8 man units, with a Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor, ML1, with a psycannon in my plasma squads, which are generally in Taurox Primes. The inquisitor shoots mind bullets and stands out in front to tank shots. That's how I do it.

[Quneitra]

Honestly, I can't add much to this discussion other than re-emphasizing that you need allies to make stormies/MT work. I've had good experiences with them, but you have to have a mission for them from the get go, and not rely on them too much if they're your centerpiece.

 

Melta and plasma are always good standbys, with high Str and low Ap all around, and your guys being more likely to survive Gets Hot! due to carapace.

 

To play the other side's advocate for a moment, though, I wouldn't completely discount volleyguns. Worst case scenario, you got a +1 Str hotshot lasgun, but best case scenario, you get 4 shots of delicious Str4 Ap3. I would think about what you plan on using these guys for, of course, before deciding on what to kit out with.

[MoGuy]

 

 

I focus on the Hellrain formations, making the Scion Squads a 10 man squad with Meltaguns, and hide the Commissar's in a Valkyrie

 

Yeah, I have the same idea. Gonna buy the SC box two times and just hide the Commissars in my Valkyries. 

 

 

 

AdMech can be a great ally, and you'll find that beyond 1000 points C:MT is going to need help, since it really lacks in high strength weapons, and tough support units.

 

Yes, I can see that. :/ Beyond 1000 points would also be the point where I would bring in the Culexus and the Knight, so we are looking at ~1500 points just from that. 

 

Another thing that I would like to do is grab an Imperial Bastion. Suddenly those Volleyguns (or any other Non-Melta-Special-Weapons) have a place to hide in. Has someone here some experience with taking fortification(s) to bolster your MT's performance? 

 

 

 

I would think about what you plan on using these guys for, of course, before deciding on what to kit out with.

 

Do the Scion kits come with two flavours of every special weapon or just one of each? 

 

 

 

For the Taurox Prime, I like Autocannons and the Gatling cannon. The armor is paper thin, so you'll want to keep it as cheap as possible.

 

All of my Deldar vehicles are flimsy AV10 open-topped paperboats. AV11 would be a whole new experience for me. xD

 

 

 

I like taking my Scions in 8 man units, with a Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor, ML1, with a psycannon in my plasma squads, which are generally in Taurox Primes. The inquisitor shoots mind bullets and stands out in front to tank shots. That's how I do it.

 

Don't forget about those sweet, sweet Servoskulls! For my Ad Mech they never were that good but for the Scions they sound like heaven!

 

About the Start Collecting Box:

 

How would you build the stuff inside? 5x Scions and 5x Command Squad? Or 10x Scions?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

To play the other side's advocate for a moment, though, I wouldn't completely discount volleyguns. Worst case scenario, you got a +1 Str hotshot lasgun, but best case scenario, you get 4 shots of delicious Str4 Ap3. I would think about what you plan on using these guys for, of course, before deciding on what to kit out with.

I'm not saying that volley guns are bad, just that they're very specialized. If you need a squad to shoot beyond it's ability, it's great, or if you want to stick them behind cover. But for the way most folks play C:MT, and the way they're really set up, mobility is key, and the volley gun just doesn't cut it.

 

Yes, I can see that. :/ Beyond 1000 points would also be the point where I would bring in the Culexus and the Knight, so we are looking at ~1500 points just from that. 

 

Another thing that I would like to do is grab an Imperial Bastion. Suddenly those Volleyguns (or any other Non-Melta-Special-Weapons) have a place to hide in. Has someone here some experience with taking fortification(s) to bolster your MT's performance? 

While I have fortifications, I am very loathe to take them. I prefer my armies to be mobile which means fortifications are out. I'd rather spend the points on more stuff to support my troopers.

 

Still, putting a volley gun command squad in one as a base of fire is not a terrible idea, though I'd only do it with volley guns or grenade launchers (you want your plasma, melta, and flamer CS's to deep strike in next to a thing and put the spurs to it). I generally only consider fortifications with regular guard, since Stormtroopers should be out front mixing it up.

 

 

Do the Scion kits come with two flavours of every special weapon or just one of each? 

Just one of each.

 

 

All of my Deldar vehicles are flimsy AV10 open-topped paperboats. AV11 would be a whole new experience for me. xD

Still, the TP is 11/10/10, so to the side or rear, a bolter will still kill it. It also clocks in at 80 points base, so it's already not cheap.

 

 

Don't forget about those sweet, sweet Servoskulls! For my Ad Mech they never were that good but for the Scions they sound like heaven!

 

About the Start Collecting Box:

 

How would you build the stuff inside? 5x Scions and 5x Command Squad? Or 10x Scions?

 

Of course servo skulls, but if I'm not deep striking I generally don't take them.

 

If you want to run the Hellrain, it has to be a command squad and a scion squad. Taking the Hellrain as anything other than a 5 man Command and 5 man scion squad with 2 special weapons is not going to get the utility out of the hellrain's rules. For the Hellrain, MSU is the best idea. 

[General Strike]

If you want the Hellrain, It would be 5x scions and 5x command, but you can always add to the scions.

[slowclinic]

A little late to the discussion, but with regards how I kit out my Scion squads... Sorry for the repeated information. Hopefully this might be of use:

 

I would only run plasma guns in Command Squads. They're 15pts each, and things will fall to 'gets hot'. Giving the order that grants preferred enemy, you can trust that your very unlikely to lose many models this way. Plus, 4x plasma guns with rapid fire if you're positioned well usually equals eight dead things. I'd seriously consider deep striking at least one Command Squad with 4x plasma guns in somewhere as they really clean house. maybe taking a cheap Inquisitor for access to Servo Skulls to reduce scatter is an option worth thinking about. 

 

With the five-man Scion squads, which seems to be the most popular way to run them, you're going for impact over durability. Melta guns are great for popping the heavier stuff and more than likely causing instant death to characters/multi-wound models at some point in the game. Hot-shot Volley Guns are also good as you're getting a lot of S4 AP3 shots out. Remember, if these guys are mounted in a Taurox Prime as opposed to deep striking, they still get firing points. Flamers are worth considering too, as two flamer templates covers a lot of bodies. 

 

From experience, I wouldn't advise spending anything in an attempt to give your guys an edge in close combat... It's just not what they were made for. If you are choosing the Hellrain Brigade, this advice can be used there too, although I can't say I know anything on that from experience. I just use MT as an allied force to give my existing Guard extra dimension and an element of surprise. 

[MoGuy]

Does someone know which black to use to paint the 29th Zetic Tygers (color scheme in the MT codex)? I don't think it's just plain Abadon Black.

 

I also really like the looks of the Grenade Launcher but its rules are so weak. Has anyone tried it? Does it even have any use at all?

[WarriorFish]

Grenade launchers are good for some versatility on the cheap, and are often overlooked by opponents. However this also makes them an inferior fit for Scions who can't afford a "normal" weapon upgrade. Perhaps to keep costs down on a CS if you're scrimping, but I wouldn't say it's a MT weapon.

[General Strike]

My plan is to keep the Command Squads cheap, and hidden just so they can issue orders. So I keep them barebones and with 2 flamers, maybe a medi-kit if I have the points. Most of my lists focus on using minor allies, such a Custodes, Knights, GK, or a Skyhammer to bring the missing firepower. I want to keep the army Elite, which unfortunately means less bodies and the ones you have are t3, so I make up for it with firepower. A single knight is 10-15 bodies in points, but most of the time is going to make a much bigger payout than the 10 bodies. I have built my lists to be modular, so I can switch out the Castigator that I plan to use as my Knight, for a Hellrain. A skyhammer that is Half Grav Half Melta, is a lot of firepower, and I have a 1850 that is a MT CAD, a Hellrain, a knight, and a Skyhammer. I try to increase the survivability of my Taurox with camo netting, and give them either the Battle Cannon or Missile Launcher, only using them to throw in front of a big threat, otherwise parking them back and shooting at a focused target. 

[Sete]

Flamers on a Valkyrie ;)

[MoGuy]

Some of my thoughts so far:

 

The Command Squad seems really cool since it can have up to 4 Special Weapons. From those weapons I think the best option is to take 4 Plasma Guns (or 3 and a Medi Pack). 4 Meltas are probably just overkill and 4 Flamers are somewhere in-between since they are really good against certain armies but don't do much against others. 4 Volleyguns also seem good if they have the chance to stand still (Fortification!). In contrast to other HQ choices they will probably die very soon into the game, which takes me to my next point.

 

The Commissar seems like the obvious Warlord choice to me. He could join a Squad in a Valkyrie and let the guys jump out while he flies around in (relative) safety. Apart from that he can also give orders but won't kill much himself. Interestingly the Lord Commissar has 3(!) attacks base so if I have the points to spare I might give the old chap a Power Fist so that he can pimpslap anyone that tries to take on his squad in CC.

 

The Taurox Prime will be expensive no matter what. I'll probably play it with Cammo Netting and Bulldozershovel. That way it won't immobilise it when I rush it into cover and it'll have 3+ or 4+ cover most of the time. The Rocket Launcher seems like a good upgrade (if expensive).

 

I'll probably pick up the Start Collecting Box two times. 2 Hellrain formations seem nice to me. After that I'll stock up on more Scion squads and maybe additional Tauroxes (at which point the Start Collecting box would probably be cheaper and I could just sell the leftover Commissars).

[zero88]

Be advised, the Commissar does NOT have the voice of command special rule and therefore can not issie orders, hence why they really only a tax and otherwise are too expensive for what they can bring to the fight.

[duz_]

Taroux have built in dozer blades so don't waste your points on them.

 

GLs are great for regular guardsmen subpar for elite BS4 units unless youre really strapped for points.

[MoGuy]

Holy hell, Commissars can't issue orders?! That's as counterintuitive as it gets. >_>

[slowclinic]

The Commissar is an odd choice for the Scions if you consider the way they work best as an army. I suppose there's the benefit that orders are more likely to be received but I'd rather go for two Command Squads and kit them out differently for a more effective variation.