MoGuy Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 I still can't get over it that the Commissar, who is literally described in the fluff as being (almost) autonomous and a step above the Tempestor Prime in the command chain, can't issue any orders! That's the thing he does in the storys from the codex! He orders guys to stop pissing their pants and face those Xenos and when they hesitate he *BLAM*s one or two in the face. This is ridiculous! That's like a Tech-Priest Dominus who can't repair stuff! Arrrgh, curse you GW and your strange rulechoices! hence why they really only a tax and otherwise are too expensive for what they can bring to the fight. After now knowing this ugly truth, I have to agree. And thanks for the heads-up about the Taurox. Overlooked his APC rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4558704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Look at this guys: http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/haemothroope-768x560.jpg Is this something you could see yourself using? I mean, putting a Command Squad with 4x Plasma next to the reactors (you only have to be WITHIN 2", so you could place the reactors behind the squad, thus they could use other means for cover and circumvent the whole "you might suffer D6 S6 hits") sounds like doom for the enemy. I know what I'm talking about since my Ad Mech Kataphron Destroyers can take Plasma Guns that shoot two 3" blasts. Use the Directed Firestorm Sanctioned order to twin-link your shots so those blasts land where you want to. If you are afraid of the Gets Hot stuff, maybe switch out 1 gun for a medi kit. Otherwise the reactors could power a Voidshield Generator so you can re-roll those 5s you need to re-activate a Voidshield. Since those Scions or the Command Squads will (probably) die the round they step out of their vehicle, you might as well turn their damage to 11. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4559162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 It's a pretty neat fortification. If you like fortifications, and feel like using them with your stormtroopers that's fine, I actually plan to use more fortifications since I'll be playing a Horus Heresy army, which will kind of require some fortifications to work well (Solar Auxilia can take Aegis Defense lines for troops the same way you take a dedicated transport), I feel that my bastion will see a bit more use with that army. This is definitely intriguing though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4559344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Quick rules question:When I roll the WT that lets my Scions roll only one D6 for deepstrike scatter and if they deepstrike within 6" of a Servoskull (from my allied Inquisitor), do they not scatter at all? Because the rules for the Servoskull say that "a unit deepstriking within 6" of a Servoskull rolls one dice less for scatter". So I would roll zero dice, thus I can't scatter...? If this is true, does it also work with the Grav Chute insertion from the Valkyrie? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I would say yes on both accounts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 "One less" means exactly that - take the number of dice you'd normally roll and discard one. Happy deep striking ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowclinic Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I had a similar discussion with some of the formations in the new Blood Angels book at the local GW. Placing a deep striking unit within 6" of two Drop Pods with Locator Beacons reduced the scatter to zero. Pretty potent for a unit that can charge after deep striking! On a more related note, this would apply to Scions, yes. No parachute those meltas in a bust up some tanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Thanks for the answers, guys! Yesterday I bought a squad of Scions (my LSG didn't have the Start Collecting box in stock) and tried some color schemes. The first one is a winter theme: Armour has a black basecoat. I then dabbed on some Administratum Grey and over that I dabbed a bit of Ceramite white. This emulates a camouflage armour. The clothes are painted Celestra grey and the insignia etc. are painted silver. Much like these guys: http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee505/revmatt2/Tempestus%20Scions/IMG_8976_zps859efe1d.jpg The other color scheme is from the 29th Zetic Tygers. Black Armour, red undercoat, golden trims. Probably will be going for this one, as it matches well with the colors of the Inquisition. Speaking of which, I'll convert the Servoskulls from the Scion Command Squad (I build a normal squad of Scions out of the box) and glue them to some bases. One more question: From the box I've build 3 normal Scions with Hot-Shot Lasguns, 1 Scion with Plasma Gun and 1 Scion with Melta. How should I go about putting the next boxes together? Again 1 plasma, 1 Melta (or in case of the Start Collecting Box 2 Plasma, 2 Melta)? That would leave me with 6 normal Scions per Start Collecting Box. So I'm thinking about buying additional special weapons from eBay so that I don't "waste" Scions. But that's freaking expensive. Maybe just keep going like this and use the normal Scions to bump up units to 10 guys etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 If youre just doing 5 man squads (which is the best way to run them unless you want a full squad of HSLG) then 2 boxes should equal 2 5man squads with 2 special weapons. You don't want to be mixing and matching special weapons. The other question is do you want to run vox casters or not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 You don't want to be mixing and matching special weapons. I won't. I build 1 Plasma and 1 Melta so far and with a second box I'll build another 1 Plasma and 1 Melta, thus having 2x5 Man squads with 2 Plasma and 2 Melta. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Yep, same again for two five man squads for different roles sounds good :) That scheme is really good, white is always striking on the table top and Stormies deserve to be noticed! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Don't forget you also need a Sgt in the Squad. The Sgt is equipped with Pistol/CCW, so that's a thing to keep in mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Bludd Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Greetings, I've been developing a MT force for a little while and here are my thoughts on a few of the topics which have been raised here. Hellrain Brigade: A great formation, probably the best way to run MT. I advocate making the re spawning Hellrain Squad a 10 man unit and loaded out with as much useful war gear as possible. For me this means 10 Scions, 2 with plasma guns, 1 with a vox caster and sarge with a plasma pistol. My reasoning is this; the more points I put into the squad, the more points I am getting for free when they respawn, and the bigger threat I make them to the enemy, meaning they are more likely to be destroyed and then respawn, which is effectively wasting the enemy's firepower. I drop these units right into the enemy's face to do maximum damage and basically force him to destroy them. I run two of these formations as my core fighting force. The Commissars sit in a Valkyrie or Vendetta all game, the Taurox drive around capping objectives and lending fire support. The Command Squads I am still experimenting with. My current usage of them is to deepstrike them midfield with HSVGs and a vox in order to issue orders to the Hellrain Squads and provide supporting fire once they are "set up". The problem with this is that they basically waste their first turn of shooting, the HSVGs being salvo and all. To remedy this I am considering loading them out with plasma and a medic + Inquisitor in TDA and ML1 to gain Presience. The other option I am strongly considering is getting Raptor's Chapter Master Lias Issodon into my list with an allied detachement in order to infiltrate the HSVG command squads into good midfield firing positions in order to support the turn 2 Hellrain assault. Lias provides a TON of useful rules for Scions, so I am really leaning towards this option. Servo skulls: Basically mandatory for Scions, especially since the kit comes with one! CADS: Run the scions as 5 man squads for maximum MSU obsec deepstriking. Reserves: You need some kind of reserve manipulation if you are deepstriking with scions (and you really should be). Lias provides this, as does a bunker with comms relay (which can be a good spot to hide your Hellrain Commissars). Grenade launchers: Never take these on Scions. You are paying for an AP3 weapon as part of the price for your basic Scion. In order to get a Grenade Launcher you are paying that base cost for your Hellgun, then you are discarding your Hellgun, then you are paying another 5 points for an inferior ap 4 weapon. It's a terrible deal. If you want to score wounds on high toughness targets use the order that gives your Hellguns sniper and pinning! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Welcome to the B&C Otto :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Schola graduates crawling out of the woodwork. I love it! I've been mulling over a bastion for my volley gun command squad lately. Guaranteed hard cover and high vantage. I also believe it can take the comms? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Bludd Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Thank you WarriorFish, I've lurked here for some time, I just never got around to registering. As for a bastion, they can indeed take a comms relay but if you intend to fire out from the inside of the fortification I think the bunker is a better choice. A bunker is a bit cheaper but provides 8 firing points with a very wide field of fire, so generally your entire squad will be able to fire at the target. The bastion has quite a few firing points too but you will struggle to use more than one of them (2 shooters per fire point) at once. If you just want a high commanding view I guess the bastion would be better, with the command squad firing from the battlements, but a high value 4+ save, t3 squad out in the open is going to be removed pretty fast even with good cover. However, come to think of it, you could upgrade your bastion with a void shield to help with that issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I'm very happy too, Emicus, while I'm broke as a joke from car repairs I can watch and learn from all these new Tempestor Primes and Commissars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quneitra Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Not to steal OP's thunder, but a question about MT just came to my mind - could they potentially take FW Chimeras from IA1, especially if you're allying them to a main IG army, or is that too cheesy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I still can't get over it that the Commissar, who is literally described in the fluff as being (almost) autonomous and a step above the Tempestor Prime in the command chain, can't issue any orders! That's the thing he does in the storys from the codex! He orders guys to stop pissing their pants and face those Xenos and when they hesitate he *BLAM*s one or two in the face. This is ridiculous! That's like a Tech-Priest Dominus who can't repair stuff! Arrrgh, curse you GW and your strange rulechoices! To add to that I can't believe when they become commisars they forget how to deep strike... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Leaping from a plane and risk losing your fancy hat? A commissar without his hat is just a lunatic with a bolt pistol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Nice to see so many stormtrooper commanders here! A great formation, probably the best way to run MT Agreed. Bumping up the points of the soon-to-be-dead squad is also my idea. With multiple Hellrain formations, I would also vary them in their loadout. I am frequently playing against my buddy's Orks so I might even give a squad flamers, just to DS them, flame (and shoot) the Greenskins and then die to the enemy's retaliation fire or - more likely- in glorious close combat. Rinse and repeat. I'll also go for a fortification with the MT. A bunker seems to be the best option so far. The bastion would be bigger and could fit 20 guys inside, but since only 1 squad can be inside a building, I would waste all that space with 5-10 man. So a bunker is sufficient. What I almost never see is people talk about the fortification upgrades. Such as tank traps! For 15 points a pop we can place 6" wide tank traps (within 6" of the fortification) that are impassable terrain for all vehicles but skimmers. Another good upgrade would be the comms relay, an escape hatch and maybe a void shield. This would give a Command Squad with 4 HSVG a very good vantage point to hunker down and spray the enemy with S4 AP3 love. The comms relay lets us re-roll all reserves and should the enemy get too close, then we have the escape hatch to scuttle 12" away (probably) into some nice cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I'd say that the 10 man Scion unit in the hellrain would be fine for an assault unit (flamers, plasma guns, or volley guns) but sub-par for a support unit (plasma or melta guns). I know I have some overlap in the plasma gun, because it depends on what you're asking the squad to do. if the squad's job is to shred his big killy unit then take all the firepower you can, but if you're wanting to break his armored backbone, dedicate as few points as you can. If you are going to use multiple small support units they'll get charged and wiped out after they do their job, allowing you to recycle them and get them in to kill more things. You can actually get more points worth recycling a 5 man unit 5 times than a 10 man unit recycling 2-3 times. You want to make sure the unit is going to die quickly, so you can get maximum points efficiency. A 10 man flamer unit would work exceedingly well against orks, and provided they don't fall back (unlikely, but it happens) your scions will likely die in the resulting combat. Smaller squads will maximize the utility of recycled units more often than larger squads. Just a thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4560973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I would agree with Ulrik on this one, though I have my doubts that the 10 man squad is much better than the 5 man in a list made when you don't know what you're going to be facing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4561022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Btw anyone knows how the new Genestealer cult truck wheels fit on the Taurox? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4561120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 I made a 1000 points list, consisting of two Hellrain Brigades and a Skitarii Maniple: Hellrain Brigade -Commissar (no upgrades) -5x Command Squad (4x HSVG) -5x Scions (2x Melter) -Taurox Prime (Rocket Launcher, TL HSVG, Cammo Netting) Hellrain Brigade -Commissar (no upgrades) -5x Command Squad (4x Plasma) -Taurox Prime (Rocket Launcher, TL Assault Cannon, Cammo Netting) -5x Scions (2x Melter) Skitarii Maniple -10x Vanguard -5x Vanguard -Imperial Bunker (Voxrelais, Escape Hatch) The first Hellrain Brigade's Command Squad will occupy the Bunker to bring their HSVG to bare. The Scions in their Taurox will hunt down other vehicles and assist against infantry (thus the HSVG on the Taurox). Second Hellrain Brigade will also take down vehicles or MCs/other troublemakers. The Skitarii Maniple provides mass anti-infantry dakka (and the Bunker). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327648-militarum-tempestus-how-to/page/2/#findComment-4562078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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