Militarum Tempestus - how to...?

[Otto von Bludd]

In my experience 10 scions die just as quickly as 5 scions (mine have very rarely survived the enemy's turn).  However, ideally, the enemy will have to commit more of his units to wipe out the 10 man squad compared to the 5 man.  This effectively wastes more of his points per turn.  When you deep strike them place your plasma guns at the very back of the unit so that they will be the last men to go down.  Since the enemy really can't afford to let a BS4 Plasma gun in rapid fire range of something valuable survive he is going to have to wipe the unit somehow, whether they are 5 men or 10 men.  If that means he has to shoot at them with 2 units instead of one, well that is less firepower being directed at your non-expendable men. 

 

That is not to say 5 man squads are bad though, it really depends on the rest of your list and the point limit you are playing at.  I would probably use units of 5 for meltaguns as well.

 

I really like your 1000 point list MoGuy.  The Bunker with escape hatch is going to be very flexible; you can put the hatch on a nearby objective and pop out if you need to secure it, or it could be deployed forward to launch those Vanguard into firing range.  Not to mention providing those Commissars with a safe place to hide out and reliably call in more men with the comms relay. 

[Emicus]

I love a gatling/hotshot Taurox. 14x bs4 s4 shots with twin-linked is outright scary for such a snippy little transport - and four of them is ap3 to boot! Great way to maim MEQ units.

 

With a comparatively easy to get 2+ cover save (ruins + 75% obscured + netting) they're harder to dig out than most people realise.

 

Until they get struck in CC of course. They're slightly less durable than wet bread.

[MoGuy]

 

 

In my experience 10 scions die just as quickly as 5 scions (mine have very rarely survived the enemy's turn)

 

Yeah. My Kabalite Warriors / Skitarii Vanguards also die pretty quickly. I would still play the Melter-unit as a 5 man squad, since the HSLG are wasted when shooting at a vehicle, thus it doesn't matter if the squad is 10 guys or 5. But for a Flamer squad 10 guys would probably be the way to go. If you deepstrike so close that you can flame the enemy then those Scions will probably be charged and die.

 

 

 

I really like your 1000 point list MoGuy.  The Bunker with escape hatch is going to be very flexible; you can put the hatch on a nearby objective and pop out if you need to secure it, or it could be deployed forward to launch those Vanguard into firing range.  Not to mention providing those Commissars with a safe place to hide out and reliably call in more men with the comms relay. 

 

Thanks. :) Yes, the Bunker looks like a fine addition to the list. Hiding the Commissar (Warlord) + HSVG Command Squad in there should give them a good fireposition.

 

 

 

I love a gatling/hotshot Taurox. 14x bs4 s4 shots with twin-linked is outright scary for such a snippy little transport - and four of them is ap3 to boot! Great way to maim MEQ units.

 

I'll definitely magnetize my Tauroxes and switch their loadout a lot to see what works best with which combination of Scions. ^^ And I have to agree, there is just something satisfying when you can throw so many dice at the enemy's face. Would be great if the gatling gun had Pinning or some AP though. :/

[robofish7591]

Personally, I only like to run five man squads if I am deepstriking my scions. I find that ten man squads are more prone to scattering onto impassable terrain or enemy units, especially if you are trying to get in close to use flamers or meltas.  With the hellrain I like five man squads even more since you want them to get killed as soon as possible (unless its a killpoint scenario!), remember that when they are destroyed they go into ongoing reserves which means they come in automatically the next turn.  If you take a ten man squad, you risk your opponent not finishing the squad off, meaning you aren't taking full advantage of the formation.

 

Magnetizing your tauroxes is probably the best way to go.  Especially since different weapon combinations have varying levels of synergy.  Autocannons work well with missile launchers and battle cannons, and the volley guns go well with the gatling gun.  Also, gatling tauroxes with volley guns will definitely catch some opponents off guard.  Being twin linked and BS4, they don't miss very often and depending on how hot your dice are they can force a lot of saves!

[MoGuy]

How do you field your Tauroxes generally speaking?

 

To me it looks like there are 2 main loadouts:

 

A ) Rocket Launcher + Autocannons.

 

B ) Gatling Gun + HSVG.

 

The Taurox Battlecannon just isn't that good. A single 3" Blast isn't that impressive - especially since most players don't just group up their guys when they know that blasts are coming their way. 

 

Version A is decent against transport vehicles and even most tanks. However, since (to me) it seems like a Militarum Tempestus list will have a lot of squads with Melter guns, I don't know if that isn't a bit too much.

 

Version B is our infantry killer. I think this will complement the Melter-Scions better. 

 

This brings me to my next question:

 

Which special weapons (Plasma, Melter etc.) ride in which Taurox? Should passengers and transport be geared towards a common goal e.g. Plasma Command Squad in a Taurox with Rocket Launcher and Autocannons to hunt down MCs or do you try to complement one with the other, for example Melter-Scions in a Taurox with a Gatling Gun and HSVG? The Scions would pop the transport and the Taurox would mow down the passengers that spill out.

 

Which brings me to my last question:

 

Since the Tauroxes are fast transports, even the Scions that have to get in close (Melter, Flamer) can be where they need to be by Turn 2. So how do you decide which squads get to ride inside a transport and which squads deepstrike in? Playing Dark Eldar I know both sides. Our Scourges can deepstrike next to your Land Raider, hit it with 4 Haywireblasters and laugh as they blow it to little bits. ...And on your turn their short limelight already ends as you blow them into oblivion. So they are pretty much the Dark Eldar equivalent of Melter Scions that deepstrike. However, the Dark Kin are one of the fastest armies (yes, sadly they aren't even the fastest army anymore and really need some love from GW) and also have fast transports. Delivering whatever cargo by Turn 2 is pretty easy and avoids the risk of deepstrike-scattering. 

 

So, which special weapon squads want to deepstrike and which want to shoot their targets from inside their Taurox?

[Emicus]

Battle cannon is akin to a third autocannon shot - and 'free'

[General Strike]

The big thing that MT have in terms of getting cut to ribbons over their Xenos cousins(DE) is that they regenerate. They die and as long as your Commissar is alive then they come right back into the fight, at least in the Hellrain. I have been watching my local MT guy(he plays MT allied with a UM Skyhammer maxed out, with three Hellrains) and it is mean, just because he can pretty much kill major threats turn 2, and then throw glass cannon bodies at the rest of the army. When it goes well, it goes very very well, when it doesn't, he is usually getting the DE treatment and getting to pack his models back up turn 3. I think he likes the punishment, since he plays GK, MT and DE as well(all armies I want, but I'm a newbie so I'ma scerrd to play them as a new player).

[robofish7591]

The missile launcher load out is definitely the most flexible, but I do like the battle cannon with autocannons.  Like Emicus said, its basically like getting another autocannon shot or two (depending on scatter), and it also frees up points to spend on camo netting which will make your taurox that much more annoying to the enemy if you keep it hopping between cover.  

 

Usually I run my plasma gun scions in tauroxes and deepstrike my melta guns.  The longer range of the plasma guns works better when shooting out of a vehicle in my opinion.  I usually drop my scions off into cover as soon as possible so they can give/receive orders, as the taurox isn't a command vehicle unfortunately.  After dropping off troops, I try to flank with the tauroxes or go after targets of opportunity with them, which is why I don't usually put many upgrades on them.  

 

I like plasma for the longer range, but if you took melta or flamer scions in tauroxes I would probably run battlecannons, volley guns (with flamers) or autocannons (with meltas), and optionally camo netting.  Since you are going to be pretty aggressive with that load out saving points is probably a better idea as tauroxes are a bit expensive and flimsy to anti tank weapons.

 

The best part about scions is that when you get dedicated transports you can choose if you want to deepstrike, or start in your transport.  So you can choose whats best depending on opponent and table layout.

[MoGuy]

 

 

Like Emicus said, its basically like getting another autocannon shot or two (depending on scatter), and it also frees up points to spend on camo netting which will make your taurox that much more annoying to the enemy if you keep it hopping between cover

 

But for what do I need a 3rd autocannon shot? S7 is not good for killing any vehicles (except maybe rhinos), and while it can wound most MCs on 4+ it won't put the hurt on them because they have 3+ armour. It is also not that good at killing Space Marines since it doesn't penetrate their armour and against armies with 4+ armour (Skitarii, Orks etc.) the gatling gun would do better.

 

The only argument I can think of for the battlecannon is that it is free and thus gives me some more points to spend on other stuff. 

 

 

 

and optionally camo netting

 

Why isn't camo netting mandatory? It is basically the same as the Dark Eldar Nightfield (which also costs 15 points and gives the vehicle Stealth) and it's a damn shame that our Venoms can't get that upgrade anymore. Good cover is the only thing that will keep the Tauroxes alive so I would always try to give them Camo Netting, even though it is a good chunk of points.

 

Thank you for the input, I appreciate it! :)

[robofish7591]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I try to always take camo netting on tauroxes.  I think its optional if the squad inside is carrying flamers or meltas, since they are going to be right in the enemies face and probably won't be able to make as good of use of cover as a taurox that can hang back a bit.  With AV10 sides even small arms like bolters can glance you and if you get close to use flamers or meltas, you are probably going to open yourself up to taking a lot of fire on the next turn. These are just my opinions, if you have different experiences I would love to hear them as every meta is different.

[MoGuy]

Ah, okay. If I take a flamer-squad I wouldn't give the Taurox camo netting. It would get the gatling gun, HSVG and maybe an Auspex (since it will be very close to the enemy and thus a good beacon for the other Scions). If it survives till the 2nd round I would have a good positon to drop other guys. The Melta squads I will probably deepstrike.

 

AV10 vehicles are almost everywhere in my Dark Eldar lists. But they have it even worse, since those vehicles are all open topped and flamers can easily kill the guys inside + glance the vehicle with a lucky 6. Bolter fire being able to glance them is another issue. So in that regard the Taurox is actually better since it at least has AV11 on the front and can buy itself better cover. 

[robofish7591]

Coming from dark eldar, I have no doubt you will appreciate having that av11 front armor, I know that one extra point of armor and a cover save has saved my tauroxes quite a few times!

[Master Antaeus]

Caveat:  All of this is in my experience

 

If your goal is to build this army over 1000 points, I would seriously recommend either a knight or a baneblade because your expensive, fragile transports and troops simply cannot ever be the center of attention; they work behind the scenes.

 

If you ally inquisition, I recommend a terminator Malleus inquisitor because he can protect the squad with his thunder hammer and (for some reason) can ride in a Taurox in TDA. 

 

Valks aren't ideal unless you are putting hellrain commissars in them, jinking every turn and just overflying the battlefield.  If you're running a psychic inquisitor, they can be a great place to stash minimal squads of 2 naked acolytes + 1 mystic for the warp charge point (it is, I believe, the cheapest warp charge in the game).  Also, I think commissars are useless and absolutely love the idea of a gaggle of junior commissars doing a flyby of the battlefield while having tea with non-dairy creamer and making sure that an endless supply of Imperial orphans are jumping into battle.

 

I dislike missile Tauroxes because they make an expensive, fragile transport even more expensive.  I prefer the Gatling/Autocannon because it mulches bad match-ups like orks and can still engage vehicles.  Camo netting is good, but pricey and I don't always take it.

 

You can run an army whose primary detachment is MT, but above 1500 points, it's really going to suck without good support allies (admech, inquisition) or a bully unit.

 

Also, if you can get your hands on them, Vultures are fantastic but basically need your opponent's permission to use.

[MoGuy]

 

 

If your goal is to build this army over 1000 points, I would seriously recommend either a knight or a baneblade because your expensive, fragile transports and troops simply cannot ever be the center of attention; they work behind the scenes.

 

I do have a Knight Paladin which will finally see some more play (I don't really need the big guy with my Ad Mech army). Can I take a baneblade as a LOW choice or do I have to take an allied Imperial Guard detachment to take one? Which one of the bazillion baneblade variants would you recommend?

 

 

If you ally inquisition, I recommend a terminator Malleus inquisitor because he can protect the squad with his thunder hammer and (for some reason) can ride in a Taurox in TDA. 

 

I also have a Land Raider Crusader which will transport my close combat henchmen group (6 Deathcult Assassins, 6 Crusaders, 1 Priest and 1 Xenos Inquisitor with Rad and Psychotroke Grenades). The Grenade Inquisitor is just nuts for what he brings to the table. The TDA Inquisitor I will likely join with my Warlord Command Squad (or even make the Inquisitor the Warlord since their WT table is quite alright).

 

 

 

Valks aren't ideal unless you are putting hellrain commissars in them, jinking every turn and just overflying the battlefield. 

 

Depends on your local meta. There aren't that many flyers in mine so it's rare that you see a dedicated anti-air unit on the table, which makes the Valkyrie actually pretty safe (especially with its AV12). And the multiple rocketpods are pretty solid in my opinion. It won't eradicate whole squads of infantry (like my Dark Eldar Ravenwing with its 4 5" blast S7 AP- missiles) but it will give nice fire support. Its anti-infantry capability is actually quite useful since the Scions don't really want to get that close to the enemy (except if they are Hellrain guys. In that case they want to die the most glorious death they can find). The 9" RFR of their Hotshot Guns forces the Scions into charge-range and if they don't wipe out their target, they'll be minced meat.

 

 

 

Also, I think commissars are useless and absolutely love the idea of a gaggle of junior commissars doing a flyby of the battlefield while having tea with non-dairy creamer and making sure that an endless supply of Imperial orphans are jumping into battle.

 

Lol. Quick question: Isn't the Imperial Guard Codex still from the 6th Edition? So there is actually hope that once 8th edition drops, Commissars may get more useful. Would be nice if they could be focused on a support role, like being able to give a command (or having the ability to make their squad auto-pass a command each turn) and maybe some passive buffs like giving their squad +1BS if they passed a LD test etc.

 

 

 

You can run an army whose primary detachment is MT, but above 1500 points, it's really going to suck without good support allies (admech, inquisition) or a bully unit.

 

Yes, sadly. :( I'll probably go for 1100 points of MT and then add my Knight, which brings me to about 1500 points. Alternatively, I can just add 500 points of Inquisition (hello, Land Raider variants!). And beyond that I can add a whole mix of allies. Knight + Inquisition or Knight + Ad Mech or Inquisition + Ad Mech etc.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I do have a Knight Paladin which will finally see some more play (I don't really need the big guy with my Ad Mech army). Can I take a baneblade as a LOW choice or do I have to take an allied Imperial Guard detachment to take one? Which one of the bazillion baneblade variants would you recommend?

The knight Paladin is a great addition to MT. I use one quite a bit as artillery. As for taking a Baneblade, that's a bit iffy. If you go from the IA Apoc book, yes you can, because FW has stated that C:AM and C:MT both qualify as Imperial Guard Codecies, thus meaning you can take the Baneblade and its variants. Use IA Aeronautica to the same effect, to gain access to flyers, other than the valkyrie. Vultures and Thunderbolts are fantastic help to the MT.

 

One could rule that anything from IA1.2 could be used as well, under the same line of reasoning.

 

I feel that most people would balk at that idea though. I can say I wouldn't, I'd be happy to face your forces. As for which variant, it's going to depend on what your particular force really needs. Do you need a big dakka tank? Do you need High strength templates? The Hellhammer and Baneblade are solid choices to support MT, and the Stormlord provides them with a good transport option, as well as a ton of firepower. 

 

Additionally, look into the Cadia Supplement, It has a formation of Superheavy tanks that you might find useful.

[MoGuy]

What do you guys think about this: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/40k-rumors-codex-imperial-agents-factions.html

 

To me it would be reasonable if the MT was also in that codex. Maybe we even get some rule updates? :D

[WarriorFish]

As Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, perhaps. Not sure I see them being rolled in, but given how the MT book was early days and a test it might be the better way forward.

[MoGuy]

Why not as the Militarum Tempestus? Their codex is even smaller than the Inquisition Codex. It wouldn't make sense if somehow their codex was deemed "substantial" enough to be left alone. 

[WarriorFish]

I meant as a name, rather than form as they're pretty much identical in rules :P The Inquisition codex is lesser as it lacks a paper version and had no new model support. Elements of the MT can work in both the Guard and Inquisition but it'd be kind of lame to remove their own book after GW hardly gave them any support.

[Sete]

You could get MT as Inquisitorial ST. I'm actually expecting it.

Keep the codex tho. Cause I bought one :D

[MoGuy]

Yeez, I'm spend (and broke now lol). Over the last two days I've assembled 15 Scions, a Taurox, one Commissar and two of the new Haemotrope Reactors (which are pretty huge, almost as big as a Imperial Knight!).

 

I've also magnetised my Taurox so I can equip it with every weapon combination. ^^ 

My squads so far:

 

One Command Squad w/ 4x HSVG

 

One Scion Squad w/ 2x Flamers

 

" w/ 2x Melter

 

" w/ 2x Plasma

 

All that's left to build is one Taurox and one Command Squad. I only have 3 Plasma Guns left so I'll probably build the Command Squad with 3x Plasma and a medi-kit. 

 

On a side note: Assembling a Taurox is a test of patience! Those four track-wheels alone take ages to assemble because of their small chain parts! >_< 

 

Anyway, tomorrow I'll probably get a chance to face my buddy's Orks and see how the Stormtroopers perform. Very excited! :D

[WarriorFish]

You mention magnetising a Taurox yet give us no tutorial..? Heresy! Someone fetch my swagger stick!

[MoGuy]

 

 

You mention magnetising a Taurox yet give us no tutorial..? Heresy! Someone fetch my swagger stick!

 

Okay, okay. I'll do one. But if my Ad Mech army has taught me one thing then it is that knowledge has its price! So that tutorial better get a heap of likes you cheap Guardsmen you! :P

[WarriorFish]

The commissariat never forgets a promise, do not fail in your duty ;)

[Emicus]

Ahh Scions. If you weren't in the post crossing the globe you'd get some love. I hope they manage to arrive before the campaign (in January?).

 

In the mean time... the time has finally come for the Thousand Sons revenge.