okonomiyakimarine Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I fell in love with the kakaphoni models, gathered some old noise marine parts and look to build a list around some more parts (marine bodies, jump packs) I have here anyway. Maybe a start to a EC collection, maybe just a small army. Also I kit bashed a (imho) very cool Moritat and thought about how and where to use him. So the idea is pretty straight forward: 2 Kakaphoni as a shooty base and a jump Moritat with Destroyers plus Eidolon with a small Assault squad getting busy in the front. Maybe not the fluffiest EC list ever, but who if not the Emperor's Children can wield rad and noise weapon arsenals with grace? EC - Jump & Boom (3rd Company Elite) - 1500pts HQ Moritat (155pts) Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol, Refractor Field, Volkite Serpenta, Lone Killer Eidolon (205pts) Jump Pack Elites (5) Destroyer Squad (260pts) Jump Packs, Sonic Shriekers 1x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Troops (9+1) Assault Squad (330pts) Sonic Shriekers, Melta Bombs 2x Power Sword Sergeant AA, PP, PW (9+1) The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (275pts) Orchestrator AA, MB, PF (9+1) The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (275pts) Orchestrator AA, MB, PF Questions Hope I did not overlook any rule violations. I can legally pick the Moritat below 2000 pts as a second HQ, because he is not a compulsory choice, is this correct? So the Destroyer sergeant is bland, but I assume the Moritat's Refractor Shield is more important then AA for the sergeant or a power weapon. Or what about the melta bombs with my Kakaphoni sergeants? Do I need them or should I rather spice up the Destroyer squad? 10 pts could be freed here and give the Destroyers one power weapon just in case when they get too something hot too close Looking forward to any feedback. Thanks! Edit: Formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's models with Master of the Legion rule that are 1 per 1k. I would give all the Sarges you have pheonix spears. Fists are nice, but S5 AP2 at I5 breaks the deadlock against other sarges. A sarge with a fist isnt going to beat a dedicated CC unit or character, but one with a spear will beat every other line sarge in the game. Kakophoni are going to be shooting infantry most of the time from far away,. I would use those points spent on MBs for AA on the destroyer sarge to tank wounds. Im guessing not too many flyers around in your meta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 The assault squad is to pricey, either drop the bombs or swap for shields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Without the meltabombs theres no real AT. Eidolon has a righteous hammer but that wont do against AV13+ very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks for your feedback. The discussion of punch vs survivability (and costs) are both good points. I don't know much regarding really competitive play. I realize that Assault is a bit overpriced overall, but so are Destroyers and Moritat - underpowered one could also put it. Still I'd like to run them. So looking at the options here regarding the points raised: 1. With Phoenix Spears on all sergeants i stay 10 below 1500, but only if I do not take CS for the Assaults or MB for Destroyers and Orchestrators. 2. I can almost include CS for Assault and MB for Destroyers, if I take out one from each Kakophoni squad. So I end up exactly at 1500 when I give the Assault sergeant a hand flamer instead of a plasma pistol- CS for Assaults and MD for Destroyers. No MB with the noise marines anymore of course. Need to check with BattleScribe, but i think i got the numbers right. Regarding the lack of anti-air: True, i am -ed, when somebody brings flyers that are capable to finish me off quickly. [insert Slaanesh pun here]. I think a Contemptor with LC would be a way to create versatility here, but I do not see how I would include one within 1500 pts without compromising the benefits from 'massed' Kakophoni. Any suggestions welcome here of course, it is nice to have alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I would do a spear on your AM and Destroyer sarge. I too have a soft spot for Moritats and Destroyers, no matter how poor of luck they've had with rules department these days. I wouldn't put MBs on Destroyers, their job is anti infantry and a turn using MBs is a turn they're not murdering troops. Keep the MBs on the AMs, but drop the Orchestrator updrages. Maybe put a spear on them. They should be getting the charge and they'll kill any line sarge without the need for AA. They definitely don't need MBs, they're like destroyers, focus on killing troops. It's hard to play 30k at 1500 points outside a Strategic Raid Mission. The best way for anti air at this level is an aegis line with a quad gun. Plus it will give your Kakophani cover as well. You'd have to drop most of your upgrades, aside from the AMs bombs and the Destroyers launcher, but it will at least give you a chance against a fire raptor. You could also ask for a friendly game without flyers if you're just playing among friends. Really Destroyers should have Veteran tactical pricing when it comes to base squad and extra bodies but the got left out in the cold when the updates hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks for the help and directions on the Destroyers! Regarding the suggestion on anti-air: Taking away from the first punch does not help an assault oriented army or this build, which would be carried from the individual boom / Moritat-RNG. It would hurt me more than do me good in most cases (few flyer) at 1500 pts. probably this is rather something to consider, if I expand towards 1750/2000? But then again here apothecaries, contemptors and more bodies would be handy, too. Here is the (as Nusquam wrote) 'please-be-friendly' list: EC - Jump & Boom (3rd Company Elite) - 1500pts HQ Moritat (155pts) Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Refractor Shield, Plasma & Serpenta Eidolon (205pts) Jump Pack Elites (4+1) Destroyer Squad (285pts) Jump Packs, Sonic Shriekers Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles Sergeant AA, PS Troops (9+1) Assault Squad (335pts) Sonic Shriekers, Combat Shields, Melta Bombs 2x Power Sword Sergeant AA, PS, PP (9+1) The Kakophoni of the Emperor's Children (260pts) Orchestrator PS (9+1) The Kakophoni of the Emperor's Children (260pts) Orchestrator PS This way I should have a higher survivability for my Assaults (CS) and more Punch with Phoenix Spear for all the Sergeants in comparison to what I had before. Moritat&Destroyers send versus Tacticals, Eidolon&Assaults will do at least something versus anything really and Kakophoni to stay back, soften up squads and hopefully grab objectives. Do you guys agree? I guess I now have something to work towards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Looks fine for a fun oriented list. I would hesitate putting the CS shield son the AMs. 33.5ppm for T4 W1 3+ is expensive. If you had other AT I would say drop the MBs for the shields and treat the AM like the Destroyers and Kakophani, but you'll need those MBs. I think expanding to 1750/1850 would really be beneficial. Then you could toss in a Fire Ratpor/other flyer of your own, or an ADL/QG and more upgrades, or perhaps a sicaran etc. Just that one extra unit so that you have AA and AT. If we were going competitive at 1500 I would swap the Destroyers for a Fire Raptor with RAC and Hellstrikes(Now that firing a full rack of ordnance missiles is at full BS). But man, do I love Destroyers and want to see them everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Looks fine for a fun oriented list. I would hesitate putting the CS shield son the AMs. 33.5ppm for T4 W1 3+ is expensive. If you had other AT I would say drop the MBs for the shields and treat the AM like the Destroyers and Kakophani, but you'll need those MBs. I think expanding to 1750/1850 would really be beneficial. Then you could toss in a Fire Ratpor/other flyer of your own, or an ADL/QG and more upgrades, or perhaps a sicaran etc. Just that one extra unit so that you have AA and AT. If we were going competitive at 1500 I would swap the Destroyers for a Fire Raptor with RAC and Hellstrikes(Now that firing a full rack of ordnance missiles is at full BS). But man, do I love Destroyers and want to see them everywhere. Good points and many options! Cheers. I see your point on the Assaults, but there is just no way to free up the points. The problem here is that I'd like to do an elegant EC Moritat and he needs the destroyers so 340 pts gone. Expansion to 1750/1850: 1-2 Primaris Lightning comes to my mind and/or a Contemptor. I am just not too fond of tanks, one reason why I plan with low point armies ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I might be missing something because I don't have the book on me atm, but the Assault Squad you've picked doesn't add up to 335 points... based on the pricing in the new red book it should be substantially less. The new base price is the same as a bare bones Legion Terminator Squad. I hope this helps with your list. Also, compared to Assault Squads Jump Pack Destroyers blow chunks. AS can take shields, are scoring and Troops, and can take power weapons. By contrast, Destroyers cost more and get Rad Grenades (but you could run a Forgelord Consul to get them too). I'd argue that your list has a crippling lack of anti-tank, and considering just how much powerful armour Legions can field this is a major flaw. If it were up to me, I'd drop the Destroyers and run a squad of Legion Terminators with Chainfists in a Dreadclaw. Not too pricy, and extremely deadly to enemy armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 I might be missing something because I don't have the book on me atm, but the Assault Squad you've picked doesn't add up to 335 points... based on the pricing in the new red book it should be substantially less. The new base price is the same as a bare bones Legion Terminator Squad. I hope this helps with your list. Also, compared to Assault Squads Jump Pack Destroyers blow chunks. AS can take shields, are scoring and Troops, and can take power weapons. By contrast, Destroyers cost more and get Rad Grenades (but you could run a Forgelord Consul to get them too). I'd argue that your list has a crippling lack of anti-tank, and considering just how much powerful armour Legions can field this is a major flaw. If it were up to me, I'd drop the Destroyers and run a squad of Legion Terminators with Chainfists in a Dreadclaw. Not too pricy, and extremely deadly to enemy armour. thanks for the input and pointing out possible flaws. I am quite sure i got the math right though. You are correct on the base cost, but the additional wargear alone (jump packs, 2x PW, Combat shields, melt bombs and sonic shriekers) add 120 pts. Sergeant with AA, Plasma Pistol and Phoenix Spear add 40. Together with Eidolon they would be sent against the bigger threats. The destroyers are an over-prized unit as was argued many times before, but they are the only way to field the Moritat with Volkite and Plasma (in a squad). With jump packs these guys should be fun against tactical marines. Honestly that was my starting point for a different EC lists that is based on 2 Kakophoni squads. Probably it turns out too shooty. I do lack anti-tank and anti-air, but we are at 1500 here and I do not expect to play against multi-flyer, armored spearhead, only tank IH or anything similar. I want a fun list and not the most competitive one. Termis in a Dreadclaw and anti-vehicle primaris lightnings are the way for me to expand some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 30k assault squads dont pay for Jump Packs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Correct. I should not have jump packs included here, my mistake - but actually I had nothing calculated for jump packs. Combat shields, Melta Bombs, 2x PW and Sonic Shriekers alone add 120 pts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okonomiyakimarine Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 I thought i should plan ahead a bit towards 2000 pts before placing the second half of my orders for this build. Especially with all the criticism towards lack of AA and AT. So I added a Primaris Lightning, a Javelin and a Contemptor to expand to 2000 pts. In doing so, I realized that within 1500 pts I could have: A Corvus Contemptor (Chainfist an inbuilt Heavy Flamer, Kheres and Extra Armour) and a Javelin (Las, Melta and Hunter-Killer Missiles) for the same price as one of the projected Kakophoni Squads. Would that swap help the list at 1500 pts enough to leave out the second Kakophoni? Thanks for all feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.