Herald of Magnus Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 So, I recently put up a 3k point list but me and my friend are relearning the rules, it'll be pre-heresy Iron Hands vs pre-heresy Emperors children. I know these lists aren't the most optimal for 1250 but I thought it'd be fun either way. The list is designed to be a kind of, tough, you're not going to move us list, typical Iron Hands I guess! So: Autek Mor (I love the idea and he fits perfectly into the next squad I feel) 5x Gorgons, cyber familiar. Tactical marines x15, power fist/artificer, Vexilla. Tactical marines x15, power fist/artificer, Vexilla. Contemptor Dreadnought, 1 kheres assault cannon. Predator, executioner plas cannon, las cannons. I was considering removing the lascannons from the pred and dropping the marine squads to 10 to fit in a different unit but I'm unsure yet, still playing around with fitting in other stuff. I'm not sure, I feel I want more shooting or more vehicles but I really like the idea of the gorgon squad. Tactical marines x15, power fist/artificer, Vexilla. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 You lack antitank, chainfists on the gorgons would be reccomendable, outflanking pred with laser is a nice idea Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Ah yeah, they're good ideas actually! Though I'm a bit tight on points right now, don't actually have my book on me but adding chainfists would increase their points by a bit wouldn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 50pts drop artificier and familiar? I would turn marines into heavy support or tactical support (calivers are good) but unsure about if you have the bits You can also add a chainfist to the contemptor or reduce its cost by turning it ibto a contemptor cortus If you'll get Ferrus someday consider getting slme tanks too, ceramite proteus and laser sicarans are sound choices Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 I do have some more tanks, I've got 3 plasma dreadnoughts, a vindicator on its way. I want to pick up more of them predators cause they look so good too, I also actually have a spartan assault tank that I can't wait to get built! I'm just struggling to have enough infantry to abuse the stubborn/fnp rules and many tanks to abuse their double IWND rules. I do know however that the two armies I'm against most of the time are emperors children and world eaters, one of which only has a couple light tanks and the other has a dreadnought or two so I'm not too worried about them. I was going to use the las cannons on the predator to take out the light tanks that my friend has (its some kind of mechanicum dunecrawler). IDK, I'm trying to go for a tanky fluffy list mixed with tough un-moveable units though I feel I'll need more troop choices for objectives and the like? I have bits for lots of heavy support squads, las, heavy bolters and plasma cannons, but I don't have any bits for volkite stuff I'm afraid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Hmm if you're vs infantry plasma predators are your friends, with the las vehicles outflanking to get to enemy tank's flanks, outflanking sicaran with gorgons is gotta be a nasty surprise. The vindicator should be deployed if laser so it won't move and shoot more. Not a fan of dreads but the -1S for IH should help them survive. I've always used head of the Gorgon and it has been quite useful, take your tanks in squadrons when you can to give away less VP. Using entrenched infantry as anvil and the tanks ans hammer could be a tactic. Since you face infantry armies the plasma support squad seems the obvious choice. As per your opponents I would use more tanks vs emps children and more dreads vs WE (those chainaxes kill preds ands variants quite easily) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Bit new to working my way around the book, plasma predator wise this one does have the executioner plasma cannon, or can it get plasma sponsons as well? I didn't see. This all does sound like good advice for my 3k point list though so I'll definitely use it for that. Currently got none of the vehicles in squads yet. The list for that is on this page too if you're interested in sending more advice my way aha, thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Preds are on page 63, you can't take plasma sponsons but the plasma turret should be enough. Tankwise I would save the ceramite for the Av 14 vehicles. You can also boost an antitank squadron giving them one command tank (conditional tank hunters), laser sponsons seems a waste in predators since you got specific tank hunter units such as laser vindis but if you want an all rounder or got nothing else... I would get the preds in multiples of 3 to squadron them up Also don't forget Castrmen Orth, the best HQ of the IH, giving a tank BS 5 and tank hunters, put him on the spartan or laser vindi. Since he doesn't have a model (yet or ever) make a conversion with servoskull and powermaul. For a LoW I would invest more in a Typhon than in Ferrus since mine didn't do much in the games. Here's my old list: http://noigrimintothemaelstorm.blogspot.com.es/2015/09/iron-hands-armour-and-finished-1500pts.html Points are from the old book, tied with harlequins and won ultras Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Wow that 1500 point list is neat, I like it! Can I ask did you play some special rules letting you field Ferrus since Lord of War normally means has to be under 25% of your cost in points? I have Ferrus cause my Emperor Children friend is getting Fulgrim, I'd love to run a LoW tank but I Feel it's just so apt to have Ferrus. If I go any bigger I'll fit in a super heavy tank for sure, I'm really falling in love with them. I definitely want to run a squadron of 3 of them predators though they're expensive with las cannons so I was thinking just running them with the plasma cannon next time since that keeps them relatively cheap. I didn't think of putting Orth in my spartan, that seems like an awesome idea, though that's a lot of points in one vehicle. I doubt it's going to go down any time soon though right? On your previous post you put this: "Not a fan of dreads but the -1S for IH should help them survive." Doesn't the -1 strength rule only apply to infantry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I always play by the core rulebook which allows LoW at any points cost. In "age of darkness" games you can use the "primarch's chosen" rite to turn primarchs into HQ at any points cost. Ferrus suffers from small number of attacks, he'll never die sure, but won't kill much, take for fluff reasons. The luck you've got with him is that he can play a blitzkrieg list with the "rite of war" armoured breakthrough (found in the age of darkness army list book) or add infantry with head of the gorgon. I wouldn't put las on preds if i had an alternative but your shopping list seems to lack ot, dreads with multimelta/chainfist can kill tanks but at too short range. Since the spartan it's already expensive why not go overboard? add flare shield, ceramite and even a pinte melta! The dreads have the "legiones astartes" rule: they get the legion benefits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Oh this is a really cool idea! I think when me and my friends do some practice games with my list above we'll start scouring rules and seeing what we can do, I've not played any 7th edition, i played mostly during fifth and missed sixth entirely I believe. I haven't seen any of the codex or books from fifth apart from the Horus Heresy book 1 and book 2 so that's all I've been looking at so far. I'm definitely more looking to go for a tank-based army, or at least a hybrid with heavy amount of tanks, I'd rather not pick one over the other. For the spartan I was adding all the goodies I just didn't think to add another hq to the model itself aha. That's a lovely little tank. I do have a heavy support squad with 7 las cannons and I do have a different terminator squad with two chainfists in it. I've not got much short range stuff, most of my army is around 36 inch range to be honest so I didn't want to include meltas as I like trying to get my army to the same kinda range so they're all effective together? Might not be the most viable but it deals with my OCD! I like the idea of using Ferrus as an HQ and then using a heavy tank though. I'll definitely have to have a look into this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Mind that if you use a primarch as HQ you can't get any extra Lords of War and must use vets and termies as compulsory troops Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Oh you still can't use a lord of war choice? That's a shame :( oh well, I don't mind vets and termies as troops too much tbh it sounds like a nice tough little force which is something I like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 its nice to play with primarchs at 1500 and to evade the ''tactical tax'' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Can you use it to get gorgons as troop choice? Can you still take one as a chosen body guard for him which doesn't take up a slot? Very soon I'll have quite a few termies and gorgons so trying to think what's best to do with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4565942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teun135 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 As far as I recall, there is no Rite that allows Gorgons to be troops choice, only Legion Terminators (Cataphractii, Tartaros, or standard termies). I myself love the Medusan Immortals, so I have been taking the Company of Bitter Iron rite, to use them as troops and dodge the tactical tax a bit, freeing up my Elite slots. But for Gorgons, you are just going to have to take the tax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 eh he could take them as normal termis in tartaros for ptimarch's chosen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Pride of the Legion allows you to take elite slot Legion specific Terminator units as Troops, so Gorgons as Troops is possible but then you need to follow the Rites restrictions of more units having the LA rule over those without it. At such a low points level you might find that what will fit into this won't necessarily be that good scaled up to larger games. For example, a 15 man Tactical squad could make a decent anchor for an objective at 1250, but at 2.5k those Tacticals won't last a minute. Maybe consider taking two units of 10 in Rhinos barebones, maybe Artificer on the Sergeants. Autek Mor amd a retinue of Gorgons or even standard Cataphracti will be good, they won't fit into anything short of a Spartan however. Maybe you can take Autek Mor with a Command squad using the Gorgon models, this way you can fit them into a Phobos and give the Tacticals a Fearless bubble from the Standard Bearer. Personally, I would take Pride of the Legion and capitalise on mass Terminators. They would be excellent at 1250 in ZM and even footslogging across the board I can't imagine them being easily wittled down. This is something I would probably go with for 1250... +++ New Roster (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy v41) (1200pts) +++ ++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List v202) (1200pts) ++ + HQ (240pts) + Iron-father Autek Mor (240pts) [Cyber-familiar] + Troops (500pts) + Gorgon Terminator Squad (250pts) [Chainfist, 4x Gorgon Terminator, Graviton Gun, 3x Power Fist] Gorgon Hammerbearer [Cyber-familiar] Gorgon Terminator Squad (250pts) [Chainfist, 4x Gorgon Terminator, Graviton Gun, 3x Power Fist] Gorgon Hammerbearer [Cyber-familiar] + Heavy Support (460pts) + Legion Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (315pts) [Castellax, Castellax, Castellax] Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron (145pts) Legion Vindicator Tank [blessed Autosimulacra, Dozer Blade, Hunter-killer Missile] + Legion + Legiones Astartes [ X: Iron Hands, Loyalist] Rite of War [Pride of the Legion] Created with BattleScribe Using the Gorgon Hammerbearers to tank whatever heavy shooting you need to while advancing, the Castellax are there for some ranged anti-MEQ with the bolt cannons and hang about with Autek and his Gorgon squad. You could use them to screen the Gorgons actually and give them flamers to deter enemy assaults...and the Vindicator is there because you mentioned having one on the way and playing with new toys is always fun. Plus, it hits hard! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 NICE, that means I can use justaerin with my SoH chosen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 NICE, that means I can use justaerin with my SoH chosen "Primarch's Chosen" doesn't allow Legion-specific Terminators as Troops, only Legion Terminators, ie. the generic ones. And Dreadnoughts don't have Legiones Astartes. That's only in 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 one says yes the other nay what's gonna be? you're right about the dreads, another reason for not taking them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 one says yes the other nay what's gonna be? you're right about the dreads, another reason for not taking them Open your book and read the Primarchs Chosen Entry. Legion Terminators and Veteran Squads only. The inclusion bit of Pride of the Legion is not present. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 one says yes the other nay what's gonna be? you're right about the dreads, another reason for not taking them ;) I mentioned Pride of the Legion specifically because Primarchs Chosen does NOT allow Legion specific Terminators as Troops. I think you are confusing the two different rites of war as the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 ok it wasn't that clear in the first post the rite didn't say anything about legion specifi units indees Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald of Magnus Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Hey, I did some digging, you CAN use the legion specific terminator squads. I found this picture of someones up to date mini-dex: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-crkCAWupFdM/U8w6ill9ajI/AAAAAAAAH1c/G44ZKfTjOJo/w945-h709-no/DSC_0465.JPG It's making a gorgon army look pretty juicy! Edit: I was completely on the wrong page, pride of the legion lets you use legion specific terminators but it seems primarchs' chosen (the thing that gets you your primarch as a hq choice) doesn't allow you. So it'd be one or the other then.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327913-iron-hands-1250-list/#findComment-4566437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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