Re embarking in dread pod

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can a dreadnaught re embark in its pod ?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yes

[Withershadow]

I'm curious why someone would do this? Per the rules you can shoot and charge it in the pod (with all the rules conundrums that creates), so at most I guess you would get cover?

[Dono1979]

I'm curious why someone would do this? Per the rules you can shoot and charge it in the pod (with all the rules conundrums that creates), so at most I guess you would get cover?

 

Those rules are massively contested and the Burning Retros only last a single turn, after which all normal rules apply, meaining you CANT shoot and/or assault an embarked unit.

[Withershadow]

Except the burning retro rule does say in subsequent turns you can shoot and assault the pod AND dread normally.

 

I think the intent is clear you can shoot into a skeletal "transport", and grammatically that's what the sentence says, but it is indeed a super messy rule because it requires a bunch of hand waving and house ruling to work.

 

Anyway, not trying to open that can of worms, every board has their own interpretation.

[Jolemai]

Where do the rules say it can re-embark?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why should it have to ?

[Jolemai]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the Dreadnought Drop Pod follows the rules for a regular Drop Pod, albeit with the modifications detailed within its datasheet.

 

A regular Drop Pod says you automatically disembark and cannot renter. The Dreadnought Drop Pod only modifies the part about when you disembark.

[Withershadow]

They are separate unit entries with separate rules.

[Slips]

The Dreadpod is also an Open-Topped vehicle with the Assault Vehicle rule. Thats how.

 

Also, Dreadpods don't force their occupant out and has nothing that mention it doing so.

 

If you really wanted to you could use it to slingshot a dread (this depends on if the 40k FAQ idiocy passes for the pod ruling mostly).

• Drop the pod ahead of a walking dread or whatever.
• If pod is empty, get the dread to embark it.
• Next turn, disembark max distance from the pod, move then charge 2D6"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Slips for Emperor !!!

[Slips]

Just putting it out there that its a gamey thing one could do or encounter...

[Jolemai]

Yes Withershadow, I'm well aware of the fact that they are two independent datasheets.

 

The Dreadpod is also an Open-Topped vehicle with the Assault Vehicle rule. Thats how.

 

Also, Dreadpods don't force their occupant out and has nothing that mention it doing so.

 

If you really wanted to you could use it to slingshot a dread (this depends on if the 40k FAQ idiocy passes for the pod ruling mostly).

• Drop the pod ahead of a walking dread or whatever.
• If pod is empty, get the dread to embark it.
• Next turn, disembark max distance from the pod, move then charge 2D6"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Slips, I'm also well aware of your first two points. I even mentioned the second.

 

Tell me, if Withershadow is correct, then how do you apply the FAQ ruling for Pods when according to him, a Dreadnought Drop Pod has nothing to do with a regular Drop Pod?

[Jolemai]

Actually, I'm going to concede the point. My apologies.

[Slips]

I honestly wouldnt even use that ruling for normal pods anyways; unless forced to in which case: The FAQ only Mentions Drop Pod doors. Is a Dreadnought Drop Pod a Drop Pod? If yes, it would apply.

 

BUT, since its and FAQ for Codex: Space Marines and the units/rules found therein, then none of the rulings made for it would carry over since we have our own specific "Legion" Datasheets for the relevant vehicles and rules with the only exception being with weapons/wargear found in both or which the LA:AODL book references.

 

Even without the ruling you can still do the Slingshot albeit over a shorter distance.

 

Its whatevs to me in the end.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

TBH the FAQ for drop pods seems like one that has been pretty much universally rejected .

[Withershadow]

The FAQ for the pod is for Codex: Space marines.

 

We do not use that codex in 30K any more than we use 40K victory conditions. Different games, different rules.

 

So petals don't count as part of the model in 30K.

[Dono1979]

Except the burning retro rule does say in subsequent turns you can shoot and assault the pod AND dread normally.

 

I think the intent is clear you can shoot into a skeletal "transport", and grammatically that's what the sentence says, but it is indeed a super messy rule because it requires a bunch of hand waving and house ruling to work.

 

Anyway, not trying to open that can of worms, every board has their own interpretation.

 

Which is why a large portion of people believe that the rules dont actually allow for the Dread to be shot at while embarked and is actually referring to if the user chose to disembark. This is taken from another thread where the same discussion is taking place:

 

the Dreadought does not have to deploy out unless the controlling player wishes, and if this is the case, though it may still be targeted by shooting attacks it may not be charged.

 

Italics = player choice

Red = referring to the italics 

Bold = Reinforces that it is referring to a disembarked model by 'STILL' (an embarked model cannot be targeted and so would not be still targeted)

Orange = change to ability to charge

 

this breaks less core rules and does not produce a rule dilemma 

 

 

 

This produces the least number of rule ambiguities and conflicts with the general rulebook. By remaining embarked and still being able to be shot you create so many grey and made up rules:

- Which facing do you hit when shooting at an embarked vehicle (the model isnt on the table)

- After Burning Retros expires (the turn after) you return to shooting and assaulting like normal, which means now you CANT shoot at it for some reason because you cannot shoot at or assault an embarked unit

 

Whereas if you play it like the above it breaks it down to the following:

 

-IF the user disembarks the Dreadnought can be still be shot at but not assaulted for the first turn, after that it can be shot at and assaulted like normal

-IF the user remains embarked you follow the standard rules for an embarked unit, cannot be shot at or assaulted until it leaves or the transport is destroyed, the embarked model is not put on the table, all as per the rulebook.

[Caillum]

Let's see if we can convince anyone here on B&C too Dono!

 

Once the Dreadnought Drop Pod is deployed, the doors open and the Dreadnought is visible. It just so happens that only Castraferrum Dreadnoughts physically fit within the pod. I suppose you could put the Leviathan or Contemptor as close to the centre as you can, and resolve any Template auto-hits from No Escape based on the facing (while treating it as if it is still embarked).

 

I can see why people think the Dreadnought needs to disembark after Burning Retros ends, but this is not the case. No models are obliged to disembark from any Transports after they arrive via Deep Strike. The standard Legion Drop Pod even says the following:

Once a Drop Pod lands, all passengers must disembark and no models can embark for the rest of the game. Note that this addition does not apply to other listed Drop Pod types, which have their own variants of this special rule and are costed appropriately to reflect this. Emphasis mine.

Only the Legion Drop Pod has the rule that kicks out their passengers, and it even specifies that this is a unique rule. The Dreadnought Drop Pod only mentions disembarking once in the entire rules box out, and this is in reference to choosing to disembark of your own will. It just so happens that this is within the Burning Retros rule section.

 

Finally, the last bullet point has a piece that is often taken out of context:

The burning retro’s effect lasts from the player turn in which the Dreadnought Drop Pod landed until the controlling player's next player turn. After this point, both the Drop Pod and the Dreadnought may be assaulted and shot at normally. Emphasis mine.

Yes, the Dreadnought can be "assaulted and shot at normally", but this must still be within the confines of the core rules. They have mentioned this only to allow for the following circumstances:

- the pod is still in play and can be targeted now that Burning Retros is over, but the Dreadnought cannot be targeted as it is an embarked unit.

- the pod has been destroyed, thereby allowing the Dreadnought to be targeted now that Burning Retros is over.

 

The rules are the same as they were, plus it & the Dreadnought cannot be charged on the turn it arrives. That's it. Oh, and you can re-embark into the Dreadnought Drop Pod if you want. Don't know why you would though - you either stay inside and shoot, or leave it and charge.

[Slips]

We've already had a hefty debate on how to play out the "new" dreadpod since LA:AODL book has been in our hands so if you want to still try and argue the point, find the topic if it isn't locked already and if it is...well...theres a reason why.

 

AKA, this topic: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325021-burning-retros-answer/?p=4488316

 

Otherwise, all of the above has no real bearing on the topic at hand:

 

Can you re-embark into a dread a landed dread pod? Yes.

 

Why would you? Who knows. Find a reason.

[Withershadow]

I understand both sides of the argument, it's just grammatically, without a comma, "the player may choose not to disembark unless the controlling player wishes" is a complete thought. But yes, interpreting as if there was a comma before "unless" does work better within the confines of the rules and is in some ways a buff over the old rules because the dreadnought cannot be assaulted under any circumstances even if the pod is destroyed.

 

It's just visually, as with the regular pod, once the doors are blown off, it's a metal platform with some beams sticking up, so it makes sense to treat it more as cover than a transport. At that point it's as much a vehicle as a cluster of lamp posts. 

 

But anyway, it's definitely been hashed out to death in that thread, the answer to this thread's question, is yes, you can technically re-embark a dreadnought pod.