Thousand Sons 1k Zone Mortalis Force

[annymouse]

Hello!

With Burning of Prospero, I've finally moved into my favorite traitor legion Thousand Sons. I was hoping, like with most armies I could start with a small ZM force while building up as well as waiting for their rules in December.

 

That said, usually I would go with a breacher/termies list for the vanilla marines they are currently, but I've used all my breachers on my WB ZM force, and the Thousand Sons I've been painting are vets.

 

I was hoping to get a list for ZM that incorporated using veteran squads, with a lib thrown in for Thousand Sons flavor. This is the abomination I've come up with, so it needs a lot of work.

 

Any C&C is welcome even if it's just "Vets aren't viable in this kind of force".

 

Thanks!

 

++ HQ ++ 190pts

Legion Consul - Artificer, Force Weapon, Refractor Shield, Melta Bombs

Legion Delegatus - Artificer, CC Weapon (master crafted), Refractor Shield, Melta Bombs

++ Elites ++ 215

Contemptor Dreadnought - 2x Dreadnought CC Weapon with inbuilt Graviton Guns

++ Troops ++ 590

 

2x Veterans Squad (Sniper, Outflank) - x7 Combi Flamers, 2x Heavy Flamers, Sergent w/ Powerfist, Artificer, Combi Flamer

 

____

 

Total: 995pts

 

I went flamer heavy since they're pretty strong with sniper and shred, but it does look pretty Salamander-y. I'm hoping there will be better Legion Specific units/rules that can fluff and punch this list up a bit but I'd like to use them before the new rules as well.

 

Thanks for all your help!

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

Hi there,

 

Just a couple of things I noticed about your list that you may want to change:

 

1. Your first Consul.

I take it you took a Centurion with the Librarian Consul upgrade (to get the Force Weapon) but did not purchase any Mastery Levels for him?

By working out the cost of the Delegatus, I could see that the Consul was 100 Points for the base Centurion, Librarian Upgrade (Force Weapon), Artificer Armour, Refractor Field and Melta Bombs, however the Librarian upgrade does not make him a Psyker.

The Librarian Upgrade allows him to purchase Mastery Levels on top of the cost of the upgrade (I.e. for a Level 1 Librarian it would cost 120 Points instead, 140 for a Level 2).

Yes you get the Force Weapon with just the upgrade, however, to 'activate' the Force effect you now need Warp Charges. To generate Warp Charges, you need a Mastery Level, which costs extra, and so the Librarian Upgrade as you have it does nothing and he cannot even use his Force Weapon's ability.

So you will want to at least make him a Level 1 Psyker, meaning you'll need to free up some points.

 

2. Contemptor.

Firstly, a Contemptor Dreadnought with 2 DCCWs and 2 Graviton Guns costs 205, not 215, so you save yourself 10 Points as it is.

However, if you want to stick with the Close Combat loadout, I would look into the Contemptor-Cortus at 1000 Points (uses the same model) as it's considerably cheaper for a small stats decrease, but much better suited to smaller points games and Close Combat (Atomantic Overcharge grants one of the following per turn: Rage, +1" Move and Charge, +2" Run or +1 Initiative - at the risk of losing a Hull Point).

The same load out on a Cortus is only 165 Points which is a massive 50 point saving!! Most of which could make your Librarian Level 2.

 

3. Veterans

That many Flamers will no doubt cause an awful lot of damage in Zone Mortalis with Sniper. However, 2 units of the same is possibly a bit overkill?

I would consider swapping one for some thing else.

Here are the two things I would consider (both costing 295 Points - the exact same as the Veteran Squad they would replace):

 

- Veteran Squad (10 Man) with 2 Plasma Guns, 7 Combi-Plasmas and Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Plasma. This gives them guaranteed AP2. Whilst also giving them Sniper and Outflank will give you a chance for Precision Shot Plasma Guns or just Rending Boltguns if you don't use the Plasma part.

I think these guys (and Plasma in particular) fit the Thousand Sons quite well and will be of use outside of Zone Mortalis as you build a bigger army.

 

- Breacher Squad (12 Man) with 2 Meltaguns, Vexilla and Sgt with Combi-Melta and Artificer Armour. These are more defensively minded and the Shields will help a lot in Zone Mortalis. Meltaguns are good at low points (or ZM) as Armoured Ceramite is not common.

However these are even more of a Salamanders theme then the Flamer Vets and maybe won't see as much use outside ZM.

Breachers are much better suited to Zone Mortalis though as they have hardened armour - don't forget that in certain scenarios, there are penalties imposed on models that aren't Vehicles or in Artificer/Hardened Armour, making it easier to kill them (Shred and/or Rending I believe but I'm not 100%).

 

I would try to add Vexillas to these unit too to improve their Morale.

 

 

It would seem as though you're keen to build this around a core of Veterans however, so if I was to re-work your list with this in mind It would be as follows:

 

Legion Centurion - 105

(Delegatus Consul, Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Master-Crafted Power Weapon, Melta Bombs)

*I added a Power Weapon to make him a bit more effective in combat)

 

Legion Centurion - 140 / 245

(Librarian Consul - Force Weapon, ML2, Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Melta Bombs)

*Gave him the ML upgrade I mentioned above. Level 2 gives access to Force and 3 Powers (can only roll on one table so that's 2 you roll + the Primaris for Psychic Focus) and allows you to cast 2 powers a turn i.e Force and something else before combat instead of having to choose.

 

Contemptor-Cortus - 165 / 410

(2 Dreadnought CCWs with Graviton Guns)

 

Veteran Tactical Squad (10) - 295 / 705

(7 Combi-Flamers, 2 Heavy Flamers, Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Flamer)

*Sniper / Outflank

 

Veteran Tactical Squad (10) - 295 / 1000

(7 Combi-Plasmas, 2 Plasma Guns, Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Plasma)

 

Tactics:

 

Librarian joins Plasma Veterans. Rolls on Divination as it's very fitting for Thousand Sons (Primaris is Prescience which will help avoid Gets Hot from Plasma, whilst most of the other powers are all very effective - Forewarning for 4+ Inv and Precognition, which combos with Force nicely, are the best here, although misfortune and perfect timing would be great too in ZM).

 

Delegatus joins the Flamer Vets where he can get up close.

 

Cortus hunts Vehicles, fires off Graviton Blasts and generally add some combat muscle.

 

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I hope I have explained why I would make those changes well enough for it to make sense.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide, will look out for the painted army!

[annymouse]

Hi there,

 

Just a couple of things I noticed about your list that you may want to change:

 

1. Your first Consul.

I take it you took a Centurion with the Librarian Consul upgrade (to get the Force Weapon) but did not purchase any Mastery Levels for him?

By working out the cost of the Delegatus, I could see that the Consul was 100 Points for the base Centurion, Librarian Upgrade (Force Weapon), Artificer Armour, Refractor Field and Melta Bombs, however the Librarian upgrade does not make him a Psyker.

The Librarian Upgrade allows him to purchase Mastery Levels on top of the cost of the upgrade (I.e. for a Level 1 Librarian it would cost 120 Points instead, 140 for a Level 2).

Yes you get the Force Weapon with just the upgrade, however, to 'activate' the Force effect you now need Warp Charges. To generate Warp Charges, you need a Mastery Level, which costs extra, and so the Librarian Upgrade as you have it does nothing and he cannot even use his Force Weapon's ability.

So you will want to at least make him a Level 1 Psyker, meaning you'll need to free up some points.

 

2. Contemptor.

Firstly, a Contemptor Dreadnought with 2 DCCWs and 2 Graviton Guns costs 205, not 215, so you save yourself 10 Points as it is.

However, if you want to stick with the Close Combat loadout, I would look into the Contemptor-Cortus at 1000 Points (uses the same model) as it's considerably cheaper for a small stats decrease, but much better suited to smaller points games and Close Combat (Atomantic Overcharge grants one of the following per turn: Rage, +1" Move and Charge, +2" Run or +1 Initiative - at the risk of losing a Hull Point).

The same load out on a Cortus is only 165 Points which is a massive 50 point saving!! Most of which could make your Librarian Level 2.

 

3. Veterans

That many Flamers will no doubt cause an awful lot of damage in Zone Mortalis with Sniper. However, 2 units of the same is possibly a bit overkill?

I would consider swapping one for some thing else.

Here are the two things I would consider (both costing 295 Points - the exact same as the Veteran Squad they would replace):

 

- Veteran Squad (10 Man) with 2 Plasma Guns, 7 Combi-Plasmas and Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Plasma. This gives them guaranteed AP2. Whilst also giving them Sniper and Outflank will give you a chance for Precision Shot Plasma Guns or just Rending Boltguns if you don't use the Plasma part.

I think these guys (and Plasma in particular) fit the Thousand Sons quite well and will be of use outside of Zone Mortalis as you build a bigger army.

 

- Breacher Squad (12 Man) with 2 Meltaguns, Vexilla and Sgt with Combi-Melta and Artificer Armour. These are more defensively minded and the Shields will help a lot in Zone Mortalis. Meltaguns are good at low points (or ZM) as Armoured Ceramite is not common.

However these are even more of a Salamanders theme then the Flamer Vets and maybe won't see as much use outside ZM.

Breachers are much better suited to Zone Mortalis though as they have hardened armour - don't forget that in certain scenarios, there are penalties imposed on models that aren't Vehicles or in Artificer/Hardened Armour, making it easier to kill them (Shred and/or Rending I believe but I'm not 100%).

 

I would try to add Vexillas to these unit too to improve their Morale.

 

 

It would seem as though you're keen to build this around a core of Veterans however, so if I was to re-work your list with this in mind It would be as follows:

 

Legion Centurion - 105

(Delegatus Consul, Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Master-Crafted Power Weapon, Melta Bombs)

*I added a Power Weapon to make him a bit more effective in combat)

 

Legion Centurion - 140 / 245

(Librarian Consul - Force Weapon, ML2, Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Melta Bombs)

*Gave him the ML upgrade I mentioned above. Level 2 gives access to Force and 3 Powers (can only roll on one table so that's 2 you roll + the Primaris for Psychic Focus) and allows you to cast 2 powers a turn i.e Force and something else before combat instead of having to choose.

 

Contemptor-Cortus - 165 / 410

(2 Dreadnought CCWs with Graviton Guns)

 

Veteran Tactical Squad (10) - 295 / 705

(7 Combi-Flamers, 2 Heavy Flamers, Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Flamer)

*Sniper / Outflank

 

Veteran Tactical Squad (10) - 295 / 1000

(7 Combi-Plasmas, 2 Plasma Guns, Sgt with Artificer Armour, Power Fist and Combi-Plasma)

 

Tactics:

 

Librarian joins Plasma Veterans. Rolls on Divination as it's very fitting for Thousand Sons (Primaris is Prescience which will help avoid Gets Hot from Plasma, whilst most of the other powers are all very effective - Forewarning for 4+ Inv and Precognition, which combos with Force nicely, are the best here, although misfortune and perfect timing would be great too in ZM).

 

Delegatus joins the Flamer Vets where he can get up close.

 

Cortus hunts Vehicles, fires off Graviton Blasts and generally add some combat muscle.

 

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I hope I have explained why I would make those changes well enough for it to make sense.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide, will look out for the painted army!

 

 

Thanks so much! I wrote this list using battlescribe and then transcribed it here, so it's possible I had an extra box checked that I wasn't thinking about. Probably Extra Armor on the dread.

 

I tried to keep it to 995, because i think that at exactly 1000 points you need to start taking a Praetor for MotL and PoW to get vets as troops, but I'm not certain, that's the way I interpreted the rule anyway, but I love your changes. I totally forgot to buy Mastery Levels d'oh!

 

I was hoping the graviton guns could cause some mayhem in terms of terrain mucking about which seems to be pretty choice in ZM.

 

Thank you again for you help, I really appreciate the feedback!

[Caillum]

You aren't obliged to take a Praetor once you hit 1000 points - Delegatus is fine. Their RoW "Chosen Duty" is fantastic for Zone Mortalis!

 

Apostle's list and tactics are pretty solid. I would drop the 8 combi-flamers though, as the way shooting works means they may be wasted in many rounds, ie. you pick a weapon, fire all of them, resolve the casualties, then pick another weapon. Templates have a finite range, so you may be fine with 2 Sniper heavy flamers and 8 Sniper bolters/bolt pistols.

 

Those points will be very well spent on melta bombs for both squads (as you need them for Dreadnoughts & doors) and vexillas (because re-rolling Morale is super good, like Apostle said). Plus a chainfist for the Cortus.

 

I would also swap the characters' refractor fields for boarding shields, as it makes the whole squad count as having defensive grenades. Something like this:

 

HQ

Delegatus: Rite of War (Chosen Duty); artificer armour; power fist (master-crafted); boarding shield 105

Librarian: Mastery Level 2; artificer armour; force axe; melta bombs; boarding shield 140

 

TROOPS

10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; legion vexilla; melta bombs; 2 × heavy flamer 250

10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-plasma; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 7 × combi-plasmas; legion vexilla; melta bombs; 2 × plasma gun 330

 

ELITES

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: Dreadnought chainfist (graviton gun); Dreadnought close combat weapon (graviton gun) 175

 

1,000 points

[annymouse]

Sorry for the late reply!

 

Thank you so much for your help. The clarification re: Delagatus is really helpful. I definitely could see the points from the combi-flamers being used somewhere else, does that make the vets too anemic with just two heavy flamers?

 

With the FAQ clarifying that only one model can use melta bombs in the assault phase, is it worth the points to give everyone melta bombs? I understand they're much more valuable in ZM, but my sergeants can punch open doors too, if they have to. 

Vexillas are a good idea and will really be cool to model/paint.

 

Thank you again for your help!

[Eternal Despair]

The only real benefit to squad wide melta bombs at this point is redundancy if your sergeant is sniped out of the squad. However due to the cost of squad wide melta bombs it's not worth it anymore in my opinion as you would be hard pressed to make your points back compared to a single melta bomb

[Caillum]

Yeah, with FAQgate striking, might be better to skip the melta bombs. Though, at least on Veterans you get them at a discount.

 

Heavy flamer Vets will be fine. You could invest the melta bombs points into an Apothecary for them, as they're gonna be up close and personal, so FNP is pretty useful.

[annymouse]

Hello! Sorry for the bump, but I've been painting up a storm and of course over time my list idea has changed. I've incorporated a lot of the advice I've gotten here wrt dropping the combi flamers and adding boarding shields, and using a cortus, but I've further neutered the vet squads special weapons to add a small Terminator bodyguard squad for my Librarian. Every squad has a way of squishing doors and dreads, the Delagatus is going with the plasma vets and the Librarian with the terminators.

 

The upside is that this list adds more bodies, terminator bodies to boot! Of course as always any C&C is welcome! Thank you!

 

 

 

+ HQ (240pts) +

 

········Legion Centurion (Delegatus) (90pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Melta Bombs, Master Crafted Weapon]

 

········Legion Centurion (Librarian) (150pts) [Psychic Mastery Level 2, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Force Weapon]

 

 

+ Elites (165pts) +

 

············Cortus Dreadnought (165pts) [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked bolter, 2x Graviton Gun (30pts)]

 

 

+ Troops (595pts) +

 

········Legion Terminator Squad (190pts) [Heavy Flamer, 4x Legion Terminators in Tataros with Power Weapon, Combi Bolter, 1 Sergent in Tartaros with Power Fist, Combi Bolter]

 

········Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (200pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, 2x Plasma Gun, Artificer]

 

········Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (205pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, 2x Flamer, Artificer, Power Fist]

 

 

+ Legion +

 

········Rite of War [Pride of the Legion]