Do players call cheese when you run your knights?

[Link2edition]

Let me start by saying I have loved Black Templar since 5th ed and when the Knight codex came out I fell in love with them too. I made an army out of both and took it to a 2500 point tourney with no restrictions on superheavies. (the list is posted in the list section).

 

I was surprised when I had at least two players call it a "cheese army" (3 knights, 2 land raiders full of crusaders) I thought it was a fair representation of both factions. Granted I intended for it to be competitive but I wouldn't call it cheese...

 

Have any of you ran into this problem with knights specifically?

[Teetengee]

I mean, I think multi knight armies are a little cheesy, though far less so than all knight armies. However, I blame GW for that more than anyone playing them in most parts. Plus, if this is a tournament that allows such lists, I don't think they have any right to complain. Tournaments aren't about friendly matches, they are about being cutthroat and playing to win, they should have expected it.

[Link2edition]

I hear you on the tourney bit. The first player to call cheese brought a few wraith knights and some sort of eldar titan. Str D all over the place.

 

The other player brought 4 baneblades in some sort of apoc formation. He ended up winning, I took 3rd. He acknowledged he was bringing cheese but thought I was being just as cheesy. I ended up fighting him to a draw in the second round.

 

I plan to keep running my 3 knight army in normal games until the meta adapts to it. I will just be letting my opponents know beforehand.

I was hoping this thread would show me that Knights were more accepted in other communities.

[CommodusXIII]

Sounds like a couple hypocrites to me.

[gmaleron]

In my experience people will always find a reason to complain especially in this game, and as pointed out they are being complete hypocrites.

[BassWave]

Full knight armies are only cheese if the opponent isn't prepared. A single knight is not even an issue for a balanced list. Knights can topple over easy enough with conventional anti tank weapons.

[Teetengee]

Yeah, I have no trouble fighting one knight, maybe two (I usually play 2500-3000 point games) but more than that starts to seriously change how the game plays. It makes vast amounts of my army only useful for objective grabs, as they literally are incapable of hurting those things. That is the real problem with all knight armies, it doesn't really feel like a wargame any more, it is just about not dying long enough to win. It is a survival game.

[Akrim]

Nothing inherently cheesy about IKs, certainly not at tourney level (thats to be expected).

 

In our gaming group we didnt want a nuclear arms race, so we decided to have dedicated Super Heavy ITC nights so you can be prepared. We usually play 1850, i sucks to tangle with SH/GMCs at that level unexpectedly.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Slightly unrelated, but the only time I've ever had people call me out on "cheese" for using the War Convocation were Tau players after they started losing. 

[Tyriks]

I had the same from an Eldar player, and I wasn't even running a War Convocation!

[Tiger9gamer]

Hell, I kicked a solar auxillia player's arse so hard he gets triggered every time I say "skitarii needs transports" back when the FAQ didn't screw my unbound rhino list over.

 

And the only times I was called out for it was when I played one in 1,000 points after asking my opponent's permision, and then it was a bystander that groaned and complained. (same bystander played a summoning ork list allied with tsneech daemons against me once while complaining about the knight)

[Vel'Cona]

Just had this conversation with a friend running a BT list with a similar build.  We both went with it being cool from a "full disclosure" standpoint, ie. I knew what he was taking in advance.  This is generally how I take friendly games.  For tournaments (which I tend to loathe) it's no-hold-barred, of course, but that's just how that cookie crumbles.  

[Link2edition]

Just had this conversation with a friend running a BT list with a similar build.  We both went with it being cool from a "full disclosure" standpoint, ie. I knew what he was taking in advance.  This is generally how I take friendly games.  For tournaments (which I tend to loathe) it's no-hold-barred, of course, but that's just how that cookie crumbles.  

I swore off tournaments a few years ago. Then I found a shop in town that runs oddball tournaments with rules and missions you don't find out until you get there (aside from list restrictions)

 

Last year they ran a 1000 point infantry models only tourney with all of the missions christmas themed. We have to herd reindeer and save santa from the tyranids.

 

This one was all about body count. When we got to the tournament we found out everything was malestrom of war but in addition to VPs you also get to add killpoints to your score. Superheavies count as X/3+1 killpoint with the X being how many hullpoints the model has.

 

His is after he allowed us all to bring as superheavies as we wanted as long as we found a force org for it.

 

So I agree, I normally hate tournaments, but this store's are just "tounge n cheek" enough for me to enjoy.

[Vel'Cona]

Hey, no worries everyone enjoys 40k in their own way.  I think "cheesy" and "WAAC" are just concepts after all, and all in the eye of the beholder.  I wouldn't say I play entirely for background but it's nice to have a legit narrative and I feel like tournaments are often playing 40k for its own sake rather than making a story out of it.  I go to one every once in a while for the experience and to see how the meta shifts, but I stick pretty closely to maintaining a background-friendly army whenever possible.

[lionofjudah]

working on my 3 knight list right now;)...think its all fair in love and wargames

[the jeske]

Well some stuff does hardcounter some armies. Specialy if people play normal armies, and not have huge collections. Dealing with something like a household is doable for good armies. top tier armies may even find knight match ups favorable[few units, harder objective caping, no psychic powers etc]. But if someone plays one of the weaker armies, it is realy a way different game. And God forbid someone wants to play a mono codex weak army.

[RandomMarine]

Its pretty easy to squeeze 3 knights into 1250 with the barons court formation give some tasty buffs. @ 2k you can bring the dirt like this

+++ Admech Knight house (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2012) (2000pts) +++

 

++ Formation Detachment (Cult Mechanicus: Codex (2015) v2002) ++

 

+ Formation +

 

········Cohort Cybernetica

············Kastelan Robot Maniple

················Cybernetica Datasmith [Refractor field]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

············Kastelan Robot Maniple

················Cybernetica Datasmith [Refractor field]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

············Tech-Priest Dominus [Conversion field, Digital weapons, Phosphor serpenta, Volkite blaster]

 

++ Formation Detachment (Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) v2004) ++

 

+ Formation +

 

········Baronial Court

············Knight Crusader [Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Warlord]

············Knight Errant [Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Sanctuary]

············Knight Paladin [Heavy Stubber, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Twin Icarus Autocannon]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Its pretty easy to squeeze 3 knights into 1250 with the barons court formation give some tasty buffs. @ 2k you can bring the dirt like this

+++ Admech Knight house (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2012) (2000pts) +++

 

++ Formation Detachment (Cult Mechanicus: Codex (2015) v2002) ++

 

+ Formation +

 

········Cohort Cybernetica

············Kastelan Robot Maniple

················Cybernetica Datasmith [Refractor field]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

············Kastelan Robot Maniple

················Cybernetica Datasmith [Refractor field]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

················Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

············Tech-Priest Dominus [Conversion field, Digital weapons, Phosphor serpenta, Volkite blaster]

 

++ Formation Detachment (Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) v2004) ++

 

+ Formation +

 

········Baronial Court

············Knight Crusader [Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Warlord]

············Knight Errant [Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Sanctuary]

············Knight Paladin [Heavy Stubber, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Twin Icarus Autocannon]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

[cephalopod]

Never been a fan of knights.. Just feels like they should only be in large scale games over 2500 points along with other titans.

[Battybattybats]

As i have chronic fatigue syndrome moving a lot of models around a table like my old tyranid army is only for a very low-symptom day. A knight a castellax some thallax and a magos i can move around on most days. The Skitarii plus a knight certainly helps make the skitarii easier to play from that standpoint. The knight makes a lot of games possible and once my friends are more comfortable with handling it i'll increase the number of knights when it'll help me with my disability.

[Vel'Cona]

As i have chronic fatigue syndrome moving a lot of models around a table like my old tyranid army is only for a very low-symptom day. A knight a castellax some thallax and a magos i can move around on most days. The Skitarii plus a knight certainly helps make the skitarii easier to play from that standpoint. The knight makes a lot of games possible and once my friends are more comfortable with handling it i'll increase the number of knights when it'll help me with my disability.

 

Sorry to hear that.  I hope you have a good management program and support.  I know I wouldn't want anyone to be excluded from the hobby, and I'm glad you have a workaround on your end. 

[Echelon]

I had no idea Bolter and Chainsword supported Knights at all...

 

Anyway, I am planning on being one of those players that has an all knight list. 

 

My ITC list will be Knights and Militarium Tempestus.

 

Dunno, I've jumped around a lot between other forces and factions and I just love the idea of elite soldiers assisting vitally important machines of war.

 

About people that complain about knights. I can understand their concern but my lists are for tournament play. If people want to play against them I will warn them ahead of time and let them know all the strengths and weaknesses of the army. Even suggest options they could take to help deal with my lists. But calling them cheesy is something I won't really stand for it. Doing so is just someone reacting to something before they think about how to counter it.

 

If you guys have the chance I really recommend watching some of the batreps at Tabletop Tactics. There is even a batrep there where one of the guys brought a 5 knight list. The knights lost to a decent but not fully optimized list.

 

Anyway... I'm glad I found this forum.

[Gosford]

Full knight armies are only cheese if the opponent isn't prepared. A single knight is not even an issue for a balanced list. Knights can topple over easy enough with conventional anti tank weapons.

 

Yeah, they are much less scary than when they came out.