Master of Mankind - Review or Spoilers?

[A D-B]

  On 11/28/2016 at 9:50 PM, MrDarth151 said:

 

  Quote

 

In all seriousness, I get it. I do. But nothing has been confirmed (Jesus, everything in the book has a literal counterpoint later in the same book - even the use of "He calls the primarchs by their numbers so he must have hated them"), and nothing is Word of Godded unto Ye Final Dayes. Nothing has even really changed. No matter how much you insist I've changed everything, the problem here is that I know I haven't. No matter how much you say it's different from Collected Visions, it literally follows the reasoning and rhyming from that text, and my conversations with the author of that text. So there's no back and forth here, no dialogue - and even there was, can you imagine how tedious it is for me to be trying to explain a book that's just been released, where all of this is explained in the book (and, indeed, in 30 years of lore anyway) over and over again, with no hope of a resolution?

 

I, on the other hand, do not get it. You say stuff like "Nothing has changed, everything is consistent", and I am here scratching my head how you can claim there is definitive and set conclusion to war in 40k contrary to what codexes have established, a clear logical contradiction if ever saw one, where one sides declares that there is a single possible outcome and other declare that there are multiple outcomes.

 

Assuming neither side is lying, one must be wrong, for logically, one cannot claim things that are contradictory to be both true.

 

It annoys me, because I don't have the editorial staff and IP experts on speed dial and I need to take stuff as written, not as intended. I am very glad that you know you haven't written anything contrary. It does not help, when what I have to go with is what you have written, and not what you know.

 

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, sorry. Can you imagine what a tedious and repetitive time-suck this is? And why almost no other author interacts with their readers this much, in this much detail? A novel that took me a year and a half to write is finally out, and thankfully to the best reception I've ever had, but it's been out three days and the back and forth with you is a severe drag, especially when you're being snide in the guise of politeness, and stubborn in the guise of seeking clarity. As that quote above states.

 

It's not about needing someone to be nice to me because of my precious feelings. There are plenty of criticisms I either agree with or never bother replying to, because that's life. But for the last time: everything you're saying is already answered in these posts, in some cases multiple times:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574640

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574458

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574508

 

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to stop replying to you because it's useless and goes nowhere, and my forum time is savagely limited right now with deadlines. Good hunting, though!

[The_son_of_Dorn]

The deeper you look the blinder you get. Just enjoy the piece you have or the bigger picture. I don't agree with a lot of stuff in see written but take inspiration from what I do.

 

Adb I like some of your stuff. But not all. The simple fact you are willing to reply though on a public forum makes me like you as a person though.

 

P.s. would love you to bash some of my fluff if you ever get the time. But then again I'd probs ignore half the help cuz I'm stubborn.

[MrDarth151]

  On 11/28/2016 at 10:51 PM, A D-B said:

 

  On 11/28/2016 at 9:50 PM, MrDarth151 said:

 

  Quote

In all seriousness, I get it. I do. But nothing has been confirmed (Jesus, everything in the book has a literal counterpoint later in the same book - even the use of "He calls the primarchs by their numbers so he must have hated them"), and nothing is Word of Godded unto Ye Final Dayes. Nothing has even really changed. No matter how much you insist I've changed everything, the problem here is that I know I haven't. No matter how much you say it's different from Collected Visions, it literally follows the reasoning and rhyming from that text, and my conversations with the author of that text. So there's no back and forth here, no dialogue - and even there was, can you imagine how tedious it is for me to be trying to explain a book that's just been released, where all of this is explained in the book (and, indeed, in 30 years of lore anyway) over and over again, with no hope of a resolution?

 

I, on the other hand, do not get it. You say stuff like "Nothing has changed, everything is consistent", and I am here scratching my head how you can claim there is definitive and set conclusion to war in 40k contrary to what codexes have established, a clear logical contradiction if ever saw one, where one sides declares that there is a single possible outcome and other declare that there are multiple outcomes.

 

Assuming neither side is lying, one must be wrong, for logically, one cannot claim things that are contradictory to be both true.

 

It annoys me, because I don't have the editorial staff and IP experts on speed dial and I need to take stuff as written, not as intended. I am very glad that you know you haven't written anything contrary. It does not help, when what I have to go with is what you have written, and not what you know.

 

 

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, sorry. Can you imagine what a tedious and repetitive time-suck this is? And why almost no other author interacts with their readers this much, in this much detail? A novel that took me a year and a half to write is finally out, and thankfully to the best reception I've ever had, but it's been out three days and the back and forth with you is a severe drag, especially when you're being snide in the guise of politeness, and stubborn in the guise of seeking clarity. As that quote above states.

 

It's not about needing someone to be nice to me because of my precious feelings. There are plenty of criticisms I either agree with or never bother replying to, because that's life. But for the last time: everything you're saying is already answered in these posts, in some cases multiple times:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574640

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574458

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328184-master-of-mankind-review-or-spoilers/?p=4574508

 

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to stop replying to you because it's useless and goes nowhere, and my forum time is savagely limited right now with deadlines. Good hunting, though!

 

 

Oh, no. When I will mean to be snide, you will notice, since I don't tend to hide it.

 

At any rate, I have read those messages before. I do not think they entirely answer what I meant to question, but as I can very much relate in terms of limited time, I probably worded it without necessary details.

 

Good luck with meeting your deadlines.

[Olis]

I'm reopening the thread. I will advise that if anyone is going to disagree about something, then they should refrain from resorting to insults or arguing to the point of flaming. As per usual, any more of such drama and the thread will be permanently locked.

[Kelborn]

Thanks Olis for reopening.

As the other TMOM threads are still cilivized in terms of behavior, I'm hoping the same for this one.

I was inspired by all the mentioned stuff in here, mostly in terms of a certain weapon, the "seemingly" behavior of the Emperor and some remarks which might have to do with the Legion of the Damned. Of course, everything is based upon speculations as I haven't read TMOM until now.

So PLEASE keep calm, ok? The following stuff is pure fan fiction but I thought that it might fit into this thread. If not, I'll post it in the Fan Fiction subforum. Maybe some of you will enjoy it.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  Reveal hidden contents

"Your time has come. This will be the dawn of a new Imperium. MY IMPERIUM!"

Abaddon lunged with both, Drach'nyen and the Talon and stabbed out through the ancient corpse on the golden throne. At long last, the Long War was over. He had won. No one was left to stand in his way.

The corpse Emperor furled. There was no blood. There was no smacking noise when Abaddon gripped His heart. Just a quiet hiss as if the body had waited for this moment to happen. His last breath mere more than escaping air.

Abaddon could feel the pleasure of his sword. It impaled the corpse on its precious throne. He pulled out his right hand, covered in the fearsome Talon of Horus. In his grasp, he held the dead, wrinkled heart which should have stopped its work eons ago. He looked at it and with a grieve smile, he squeezed it until it was no more. He opened his hand but instead of the bloody remains of his grandfathers heart, he was met by golden light. So intense that he could barely looked at it. The entire throne room was covered with the expanding rays of blazing light.

Abaddon's allies screamed in vain. Their demon infested bodies were not able to withstand it. Were the light hit them, their flesh and armor were set ablaze, scorching them until only ash remained.

He could hear a familiar voice. One he have not heard since ten thousand years.

"So this is what you have become. Your father would be proud of you."

The voice rang in his mind, so powerful, so almighty that he struggled and had to lean heavily on Drach'nyen to avoid falling to his knees.

"You are dead! How can this be?"

The golden light was ascending from the Talon, wandering through the room until it stopped right before him. It seemed as it was the source of the voice.

"Indeed, you have killed me. You succeeded where your father and so many others had failed."

Visions flooded Abaddon's mind. Visions of other possibilities, other dimensions, other fates.
One vision showed him a renegade Dorn, battling against the Emperor. In his wake, Sigismund walked in his fathers shadow, unbeaten in combat but unable to uphold his fathers vision.
Another vision showed him the Emperor fighting alongside a red haired Primarch. He did not knew this one. The stranger carried a spear and shield. He was clad in purple armor and the title of warmaster came to Abaddons mind.
Another vision showed the strange Primarch and the Emperor fighting against yet another unknown Primarch. Words and names like the Corax coup, the Dornian Heresy, Icarion, Alexandros, Suzerainty, the Day of Revelation, Andezo, Daer'dd were whispered throughout these visions. None made sense. All seemed to be true and false at the same time.

When the visions faded, he realized that he had fallen to his knees, gasping for breath. He looked up and stared into a pair of blazing eyes within a ageless face, framed by long, black hair. A man, taller than even his father Horus stood before him, covered in golden and richly ornamented power armor. He recognized it and quickly looked at the throne.

Drach'nyen was still impaled on it. But the corpse...

The corpse was gone.

"You have seen what I have seen before I met your father for the last time. All the possible futures. All the alternate universes. So diverse, yet they all share the same moment of truth: my death. You have served your purpose, Ezekyle. Because of you, I was able to rise again. Because of your piteous Black Crusade, I am able to rally the strongest of my Astartes and unite the galaxy once and for all. Because of you, the flawed ones of my Primarch project will be destroyed and I can start anew. My Legions will march again. Thank you, son of the sixteenth."

Abaddon was lifted up into the air. He tried to resist, he tried to call out for the dark gods, but it was futile. His arms and legs were stretched. He could not move anymore, only his head was his to control.

All across the room, blazing flames appeared out of nowhere, hanging still in the air. Some appeared on his armor as well, burning through it like tinder. A pain which he had never felt before rose inside him. These flames did not only burn metal and flesh.

They burned his soul as well.

Slowly, the flames across his body expanded, consuming his armor, his flesh, his very being. He tried to scream but even that was not permitted anymore. Though panic was about to take over, he still observed his surrounding. The hovering flames intensified and grew in size until they were as big as the Emperor. He meanwhile looked at them as if he expected something. The flames grew even more in size and Abaddon was able to see silhouettes. They looked like Astartes, clad in power armor, armed with boltgun and blades. As they were getting closer to the seemingly flame portals, he could see more details. Golden armor with black details. Blazing eyes. Covered in flames. They passed the portals and marched in perfect lines. The stream of marching Legionnaires did not stop. He recognized symbols etched on their helmets: Dark Angels, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Grey Knights, Minotaurs, Howling Griffons, Blood Ravens and Lunar Wolves. All of them carried a single rune on their foreheads, representing their heritage. Some where unknown to him as well, a skull with crossed swords, a dragons head, a tri-foiled snake, a sword carrying lion.

"These are the fallen warriors who have given their lives for the Imperium. Regardless of time and heritage, they all have a place at my side now. They all will unite the galaxy under mankind's rule. And these will be my generals."

All of the sudden, two giants appeared through one portal. Like the Legionnaires, these two were clad in the same livery of golden and black armor. Their eyes were blazing as well. Breathless, Abaddon watched these two walked towards their sire.

One was a bit more bulkier, with short, black hair. A grim face observed its surroundings as if evaluating danger, possibilities and outcomes. A scar across his throat resembled an old wound which was done to him eons ago. His hands, once silver, were now clad in massive, silver gauntlets. Like his massive backpack, covered with all kind of archeotech, these gauntlets proofed his talent of blacksmithing and tinkering.

The second one's armor was more golden and ornamented than his brothers. Impressive, white wings framed his backpack. Golden hair, a seemingly beautiful face and a warm smile were what Abaddon needed to recognize him. A huge, razor-sharp sword was secured in its sheath.

These were the ones who had fallen ten thousand years ago. Reborn like their father, they would lead his armies. They knelt down and he laid his hands upon their heads.

"My sons. Your deaths mean nothing now. You are my wrath incarnate. You will be both, leader and champion of our new Imperium. You will lead our armies and unify mankind again. Go. Help your brothers. Prepare them for our final Crusade!"

Abaddon could do nothing, his body was finally consumed by the flames of wrath of Him. And then the great Despoiler, the chosen one, the warmaster, the man who slayed the Emperor, Ezekyle Abaddon, was no more.

[Sete]

10/10 would read again.

[Olis]

Alright. That was pretty entertaining. Not really in the right place but I liked it*. ^_^

 

(* I do have critique, but that should be reserved for the Fan Fiction sub if you wish to post it there.)

[Kelborn]

Thanks guys! :)

You're right, Olis.

I've posted it in a new thread within the Fan Fiction. If you want, you can give me your critiques.

[HeritorA]

  On 11/30/2016 at 9:39 PM, Kelborn said:

Thanks Olis for reopening.

As the other TMOM threads are still cilivized in terms of behavior, I'm hoping the same for this one.

I was inspired by all the mentioned stuff in here, mostly in terms of a certain weapon, the "seemingly" behavior of the Emperor and some remarks which might have to do with the Legion of the Damned. Of course, everything is based upon speculations as I haven't read TMOM until now.

So PLEASE keep calm, ok? The following stuff is pure fan fiction but I thought that it might fit into this thread. If not, I'll post it in the Fan Fiction subforum. Maybe some of you will enjoy it.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  Reveal hidden contents

"Your time has come. This will be the dawn of a new Imperium. MY IMPERIUM!"

Abaddon lunged with both, Drach'nyen and the Talon and stabbed out through the ancient corpse on the golden throne. At long last, the Long War was over. He had won. No one was left to stand in his way.

The corpse Emperor furled. There was no blood. There was no smacking noise when Abaddon gripped His heart. Just a quiet hiss as if the body had waited for this moment to happen. His last breath mere more than escaping air.

Abaddon could feel the pleasure of his sword. It impaled the corpse on its precious throne. He pulled out his right hand, covered in the fearsome Talon of Horus. In his grasp, he held the dead, wrinkled heart which should have stopped its work eons ago. He looked at it and with a grieve smile, he squeezed it until it was no more. He opened his hand but instead of the bloody remains of his grandfathers heart, he was met by golden light. So intense that he could barely looked at it. The entire throne room was covered with the expanding rays of blazing light.

Abaddon's allies screamed in vain. Their demon infested bodies were not able to withstand it. Were the light hit them, their flesh and armor were set ablaze, scorching them until only ash remained.

He could hear a familiar voice. One he have not heard since ten thousand years.

"So this is what you have become. Your father would be proud of you."

The voice rang in his mind, so powerful, so almighty that he struggled and had to lean heavily on Drach'nyen to avoid falling to his knees.

"You are dead! How can this be?"

The golden light was ascending from the Talon, wandering through the room until it stopped right before him. It seemed as it was the source of the voice.

"Indeed, you have killed me. You succeeded where your father and so many others had failed."

Visions flooded Abaddon's mind. Visions of other possibilities, other dimensions, other fates.

One vision showed him a renegade Dorn, battling against the Emperor. In his wake, Sigismund walked in his fathers shadow, unbeaten in combat but unable to uphold his fathers vision.

Another vision showed him the Emperor fighting alongside a red haired Primarch. He did not knew this one. The stranger carried a spear and shield. He was clad in purple armor and the title of warmaster came to Abaddons mind.

Another vision showed the strange Primarch and the Emperor fighting against yet another unknown Primarch. Words and names like the Corax coup, the Dornian Heresy, Icarion, Alexandros, Suzerainty, the Day of Revelation, Andezo, Daer'dd were whispered throughout these visions. None made sense. All seemed to be true and false at the same time.

When the visions faded, he realized that he had fallen to his knees, gasping for breath. He looked up and stared into a pair of blazing eyes within a ageless face, framed by long, black hair. A man, taller than even his father Horus stood before him, covered in golden and richly ornamented power armor. He recognized it and quickly looked at the throne.

Drach'nyen was still impaled on it. But the corpse...

The corpse was gone.

"You have seen what I have seen before I met your father for the last time. All the possible futures. All the alternate universes. So diverse, yet they all share the same moment of truth: my death. You have served your purpose, Ezekyle. Because of you, I was able to rise again. Because of your piteous Black Crusade, I am able to rally the strongest of my Astartes and unite the galaxy once and for all. Because of you, the flawed ones of my Primarch project will be destroyed and I can start anew. My Legions will march again. Thank you, son of the sixteenth."

Abaddon was lifted up into the air. He tried to resist, he tried to call out for the dark gods, but it was futile. His arms and legs were stretched. He could not move anymore, only his head was his to control.

All across the room, blazing flames appeared out of nowhere, hanging still in the air. Some appeared on his armor as well, burning through it like tinder. A pain which he had never felt before rose inside him. These flames did not only burn metal and flesh.

They burned his soul as well.

Slowly, the flames across his body expanded, consuming his armor, his flesh, his very being. He tried to scream but even that was not permitted anymore. Though panic was about to take over, he still observed his surrounding. The hovering flames intensified and grew in size until they were as big as the Emperor. He meanwhile looked at them as if he expected something. The flames grew even more in size and Abaddon was able to see silhouettes. They looked like Astartes, clad in power armor, armed with boltgun and blades. As they were getting closer to the seemingly flame portals, he could see more details. Golden armor with black details. Blazing eyes. Covered in flames. They passed the portals and marched in perfect lines. The stream of marching Legionnaires did not stop. He recognized symbols etched on their helmets: Dark Angels, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Grey Knights, Minotaurs, Howling Griffons, Blood Ravens and Lunar Wolves. All of them carried a single rune on their foreheads, representing their heritage. Some where unknown to him as well, a skull with crossed swords, a dragons head, a tri-foiled snake, a sword carrying lion.

"These are the fallen warriors who have given their lives for the Imperium. Regardless of time and heritage, they all have a place at my side now. They all will unite the galaxy under mankind's rule. And these will be my generals."

All of the sudden, two giants appeared through one portal. Like the Legionnaires, these two were clad in the same livery of golden and black armor. Their eyes were blazing as well. Breathless, Abaddon watched these two walked towards their sire.

One was a bit more bulkier, with short, black hair. A grim face observed its surroundings as if evaluating danger, possibilities and outcomes. A scar across his throat resembled an old wound which was done to him eons ago. His hands, once silver, were now clad in massive, silver gauntlets. Like his massive backpack, covered with all kind of archeotech, these gauntlets proofed his talent of blacksmithing and tinkering.

The second one's armor was more golden and ornamented than his brothers. Impressive, white wings framed his backpack. Golden hair, a seemingly beautiful face and a warm smile were what Abaddon needed to recognize him. A huge, razor-sharp sword was secured in its sheath.

These were the ones who had fallen ten thousand years ago. Reborn like their father, they would lead his armies. They knelt down and he laid his hands upon their heads.

"My sons. Your deaths mean nothing now. You are my wrath incarnate. You will be both, leader and champion of our new Imperium. You will lead our armies and unify mankind again. Go. Help your brothers. Prepare them for our final Crusade!"

Abaddon could do nothing, his body was finally consumed by the flames of wrath of Him. And then the great Despoiler, the chosen one, the warmaster, the man who slayed the Emperor, Ezekyle Abaddon, was no more.

What is that? Loreunmaker, heretek - imperial lapdog :) But in seriousness - not bad. I don't think that ever would happen or this way.

About the MoM - probably the best points of 'End of Empires' included into the book are

  Reveal hidden contents

to imprison the First Murder into the body of the most loyal son, and then sent him away - somewhere NOT SAFE for him be corrupted and come back later on to bite big boy who would be king or his future Imperium in the ass. That was partly hilarious and partly - someone explain Emperors thinking process lol.

And of course we have the last 3 words of Epilogue - 'I don't know'

[Kelborn]

Wait....did I just received something like a commendation from HeritorA? Are you alright? oO ^^

[HeritorA]

  On 12/1/2016 at 1:58 PM, Kelborn said:

Wait....did I just received something like a commendation from HeritorA? Are you alright? oO ^^

I always appreciate a person who has done something good. Never doubted people until they failed miserably several times - like Kyme with everything and Robbie with 'Legacy of Russ' (but in his case, he can redeem himself with 'Red Tithe')

[GhostHand]

Good lord this thread made my head hurt. It is impressive how passionate people get about this fictional series. Additionally, how strong people hold to fiction written 30 years ago that (imho) HAS to evolve to remain relevant and digestible.

 

I just loved the book. One of he first that I wrote down notes for, during my read through, to talk to ADB about when I can get him back on my Podcast.

[LJF]

I needed some time to process the book. I would share my thoughts earlier but unfortunatelly this was the first ADB book that I endured rather than enjoyed. I liked couple of things, but disliked many others.

 

Pros

The emperor was exactly how I expected and wanted him to be. This novel only confirmed that he is more human rather than some perfect god deserving of worship.

 

There were couple of cool characters with some potential namely Ra's mom and End of Empires. Shame we didn't get more of them

 

The final duel wasn't that bad

 

 

Cons

Story - literally nothing happens. Most of the book is just a build up with little pay off at the end. We learned that there was this brutal conflict where during these five years the Custodes and SoS were being slaughtered by thousands and yet none of this gets in! I just didn't quite feel the immense gravity of the situation. There were times where I was actually beginning to picture all these endless daemon hordes just waiting politely before delivering the final blow so the Imperium could spend weeks to gather all available help, get downstairs and join the fray.

 

Speaking of all available help there is a Space Wolves watchpack sitting on Terra yet it wasn't mentioned even once. I think a bunch of SW with their high magic resistance would be rather useful against these warp creatures. And how the hell did the traitor marines and their titans get into the webway? Did I miss something? This is where the cool 40k mysteries end and plot holes begin and the author crossed that line rather significantly.

 

Too many characters and POVs. There isn't a main protagonist even remotely likable as Talos or Khayon and I certainly didn't like how in basically each chapter we jump to a completely new character without the previous one getting properly established. As a result almost all of them felt pointless and forgettable not unlike those in a mediocre SMB novel written by some newcomer. I would have liked it so much more if the only POVs were just Ra, Krole plus some occasional End of Empires/emperor scene.

 

Most of the emperor scenes were just flashbacks, it became rather stale.

 

Overall a disappointingly uneventful and unimpactful book. Perhaps in the future ADB should just stick to the traitors.

 

5/10

[Mellow]

"Literally nothing happens"

 

That's a tad harsh. I don't agree with that point of view. I feel like you read an entirely different Novel to the one I did.

[Kastor Krieg]

  On 12/1/2016 at 6:03 PM, LJF said:

Overall a disappointingly uneventful and unimpactful book. Perhaps in the future ADB should just stick to the traitors.

5/10

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/844/770/e9d.jpg

[LJF]

  On 12/1/2016 at 6:12 PM, Mellow said:

"Literally nothing happens"

 

That's a tad harsh. I don't agree with that point of view. I feel like you read an entirely different Novel to the one I did.

My point isn't that nothing happens, my point is that it FEELS like nothing happens. Like I said, the gravity of the situation is immense but it's communicated very poorly. We spend most of the time on Terra walking, talking, recruiting and little else. I'm sorry but the tagline "War in the webway" is misleading as heck.

 

Actually the more I think about it the more it reminds of Prospero Burns. We learn some interesting hints and tidbits about SW backround but it still isn't an actual SW novel.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

If you want mindless violence go buy a crate of beer.if you want an insight into the astartee mind buy MoM

[Marshal Rohr]

The novel isnt really about the war in the webway. It's the last 30mins of Two Towers in the webway. Battles and descriptions of the five years of war will come from forge world. Also there's a line in the beginning of the book about how the traitors and Titans got in. The webway isn't closed off, it's accessible from any former eldar world with the right combination of sorcery and knowledge. If the eldar can move capital ships in some of its passages then you could easily fit traitor titans and tanks through others. The Ignatum Warlord was brought in on grav sleds and reassembled.

 

Three key events happen in this book:

- The Unspoken Sanction begins, meaning the Emperor can take to the field as long as there is a large enough source of psykers for the throne, but I'm still unsure of whether or not he actually has to stay there now if he shut the gate behind them. If he doesn't have to sit the throne for the rest of the series that means we are going to see him lead the actual last two years of the war.

-Drach'nyen is born, setting the stage for Abaddon's victory (thanks cavemen). This is more relevent to the setting as a whole than the Horus Heresy, but it's inclusion is handled far better than 'Pharos explodes and draws in the Tyranids'

- The Aresian Path is lost permanently, jeopardizing the alliance between Mars and Terra, the only alliance that allows the Imperium to function. The Imperials will have to retake Mars to maintain the alliance and hold it during the Solar War, meaning Terra will be weaker during the Siege holding two worlds instead of one. The two front war is the least desirable course of action in any strategic scenario for the defenders.

[Robster The Lobster]

An added bonus to what Marshal just wrote is that A D-B write the best Titan combat ever. I want to beg, perhaps even use the fearful puppy eyes with just the right amount of tears to get a novel featuring the pov of a titan princep.

[Fire Golem]

  On 12/1/2016 at 7:23 PM, Robster The Lobster said:

An added bonus to what Marshal just wrote is that A D-B write the best Titan combat ever. I want to beg, perhaps even use the fearful puppy eyes with just the right amount of tears to get a novel featuring the pov of a titan princep.

Do you mean solely? Because isn't there some of that already, like in Betrayer?

[Robster The Lobster]

He also wrote titan combat in Helsreach. My point is that he does it really well, it get my imagination flowing every time I read it. Just because it has happened before doesn´t mean that it shouldn´t be used again, or expanded upon, if its good.

 

Otherwise space battles with super soldier would be pretty boring by this point

[Fire Golem]

No I get that, I just read it as if you were asking for it because it hadn't been done :)

[Mellow]

As far as I'm concerned ADB needs to write all Sanguinius scenes throughout the Siege. He also needs to write the final confrontation between Emperor and Horus.

 

I find myself knowing it will end with Emperor losing an eye and his arm being pulled out and that makes me quite sad because I don't want him to lose like that. It's a bit embarrassing for a Super old warlord to be owned like that ultimately ending with him saying "wait, can I just shoot you in the soul for a second as I appear to be losing!"

 

Although it says something that He does communicate after that happens to him. Long enough to ask for modifications to be made to the Throne and even shortly after his placing on it ... That's providing they stick to that part but with it being completely re-written who knows.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

  On 12/1/2016 at 7:05 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

This is more relevent to the setting as a whole than the Horus Heresy, but it's inclusion is handled far better than 'Pharos explodes and draws in the Tyranids'

 

Meh - I've seen arguments against the handling of Drach'nyen, and arguments for the Pharos drawing in the 'Nids. Personally, I loved the latter.

[Marshal Rohr]

Do any of those arguments have decent points? Or is it the 4chan whiners complaining about shilling again?