Master of Mankind - Review or Spoilers?

[DukeLeto69]

I can't wait to read this, really hearing great things and enjoying the rather passionate debate on here but alas:

 

:(

 

As I am rigidly sticking to my "I am only buying HH books as MMPB because I am anal and like my collection to look uniform on my shelf" rules, I have yet to read Pharos!!!!!!

 

So with all the recently announced releases for me 2017 will be the good HH year you guys have had in 2016 8-) (for 40k too - great line up of books coming)

 

Then again...maybe just this once I will break my own rule and buy the hardback MoM and read it out of release sequence...oh the dilemma!!!

 

An internal fight for supremacy between the eager hungry fanboy and the restrictive OCD personality at my core...aaarrrgghhh!

 

LOL

[Forward Assist]

Got time for a question ADB?

 

Where did the idea to put in...

 

 

Drach'nyen

 

 

...come from? With Black Legion on the far horizon, and if it doesn't give the game away, will he tie in?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Just bought the ebook. Lack of Eldar involved with the webway be damned. Still hope to enjoy it. Will get to it after I finish what I'm on now. 

 

Saw the name Drach'nyen mentioned and realised my hype for the black legion series just got bigger too.

 

http://66.media.tumblr.com/2d1244ad668d241d6e124a4a23873eb8/tumblr_n6imu5DAKT1sidvs0o8_500.gif

[Petitioner's City]

What is interesting is that ADB - as he does in all his projects for BL - continues to write a much more (a) accurate to today's world and ( b ) inspiring future where ethnic diversity of today's and the near-future world is reflected in his fictional future world (however dystopian that world is). Most western sci-fi paints a picture of a mostly white future when the world as we know it makes that problematic, makes it a neo-colonialist or neo-imperialist narrative where white people lead and decide and make things happen (like televised Star Trek) It's this thing which consciously or unconsciously ADB corrects, and which more and more contemporary science fiction, futurism and even just plain old literature and art (if not film) made about the digital and technological era corrects.
 
Yet in the face of this year's events is Master of Mankind, ADB once again subtly and deliberately recasting the future with the changes we are more and more aware of today, including the most important figure in the IP, the Emperor. And for that I am utterly grateful. 
 
Anyway, I will not say anything more about this, as I know this forum's no politics discussion!

[Gree]

Put my interest in a Necron or Tyranid victory actually.

 

So the Emperor considers the Custodes his finest work? Wonder how that relates to the Eldar killing a bunch of them in the Beast Arises?

 

And my point is that if one wants to believe that the Imperium falls in the end and the galaxy is consumed by Chaos, that's fine, but that's by no means what will happen, and that's part of the allure of 40k. I mean, I don't want to bust out TBA and Eldrad in the final words of that series, but I can...

 

The Imperium is still around in the Cain novels isn't it? We have excerpts from well into M42 with everything more or less fine.

[Legatus]

The goal was not to endure long enough, it was to severe humanity's connection to the warp then shepherd their growth into a psychic race, or at least that is what was stated in this book. Read Chapter 13 of MoM.

 

From what I can see from quickly going over that chapter, the Webway alone was not the "severing" of mankind from the warp. And it was not a complete "severing" anyway, more a figurative one. Part of it was teaching mankind that there was no supernatural force, the "Imperial Truth", another part was catching rogue and unstable psykers via the Black Ships. Mankind was meant to have as little contact as possible to the warp, not even think about it, so that they would not in turn be influenced and corrupted by malignant beings within it, and that was to be the "severing". The webway was a part of that, because it would have allowed mankind to travel the worlds of the Imperium without the reliance on Navigators (and would also have allowed communication without Astropaths), so even less contact to the warp.

 

But then that element was ruined when Magnus broke the psychic defenses. The rest of the "severing" is still being performed ten thousand years later in M41. Mankind is still taught that there is only the Emperor to believe in, and knowledge of Chaos is suppressed. The Black Ships sail the Imperium to catch rogue Psykers, now with the added purpose to feed the Astronomican. Rogue Psykers are still very much culled and kept in check. But what remains is that mankind has to use Navigators and Astropaths to maintain contact between their worlds. Mankind is still being shepherded towards a future psychic awakening, and it is tried to keep them away from the warp as much as possible. It just would have been much safer and easier with a webway system.

 

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

 

And, peeking into the afterword of the book, it pains me to again disagree with Aaron on his interpretation of the 40K setting, as I think I have done before. The point of the 40K setting is not that mankind is about to die. It is that the strife will simply never end. Chaos, Orks, or Tyranids can never be defeated by conventional means. They will allways be there. So mankind has to continue fighting the most grueling wars. There is only war, so to say.

 

This was the blurb on the back of the Rogue Trader rulebook:

 

"In the nightmare future of the fortieth millennia, only the superior psychic mind of the Emperor shields humanity from certain extinction. Dedicated to his service are the warriors, agents and myriad servants of the Imperium. Foremost amongst them stand the Space Marines, men strengthened by advanced bio-processing techniques to create the ultimate human warrior.

 

The Galaxy is a hostile place. There are alien forces, even unwitting humans, that would enslave or destroy mankind if they could. The struggle continues unabated. Wars rage over airless planets, in the city-bottoms of hive-worlds and within the Imperium itself. From the dark regions of warp-space, chaotic entities spin webs to ensnare the weak and beguile the innocent. Everywhere, soulless spectres and slavering monsters are poised to extinguish the life of humanity.

 

There is no time for Peace

No Respite, No forgiveness.

There is only WAR."

 

 

The situation is very dire. Extinction is a very real possibility. But the situation has allways been dire. Extinction could have happened thousands of years BC (or M(-8 )), when the souls of the prehistoric humans suddenly started to be devoured by awakening warp entities, not being reborn. That was when the Emperor was created, to watch over mankind. Extinction could have happened around M3, in a single cataclysmic event, or an invasion of Earth, mankind's only world. But the Emperor guided them and developed space-faring technology, so mankind could spread throughout the galaxy and would no longe rbe at risk of instantaneous extinction. Extinction could have happened around M30, when suddenly warp travel became impossible and the worlds of mankind lost contact and were isolated. Many worlds were conquered by alien tyrants or the forces of Chaos. but when the warp calmed, the Emperor had prepared a mighty army to sail forth and reconquer the human worlds. Extinction could have happened in M31, when half of the Emperor's Legions were corrupted by Chaos and moved to conquer Terra.

Extinction could happen im M42, when a massive Waaagh or another Black Crusade finally cripples the Imperium beyond their capacity to recover. Perhaps extinction will come im M45, when finally the "real" tyranid hive fleet arrives in the galaxy, dwarfing hive fleet Leviathan and flooding the galaxy. Or perhaps extinction will come in M62, when the Necrons manage to awaken all of the C'tan, or fuse them all into one mighty super C'tan.

The situation in the Warhammer 40K universe will never not be dire. The Imperium will allways have to fight for survival. The threat of extinction will allways loom over mankind. Until the day it has evolved past the state of being threatened by Chaos. Or until it is deytroyed by one threat or another.

 

According to the 7th Edition rulebook of 40K the Emperor is still determined to guard mankind until they have evolved, just as had been his goal way back in the Rogue Trader rulebook. So his pessimistic outlook in 'Master of Mankind' was merely a momentary loss of hope.

[A D-B]

 

 

Anyway, I will not say anything more about this, as I know this forum's no politics discussion!

 

 

That's the crucial point, here. It isn't politics, really. It's just misinterpreted that way. It isn't an agenda, or anything artificial - I always hearken back to that worst email I ever received: "Why are there so many women and sandn******s in your books?"

 

Because, to that person, it was an invasion of non-whiteness, non-defaultness into his setting. It seemed like some weird artificial agenda. I can see why! But there are so many women and non-white people in my novels because, simply put, there are so many women and non-white people in the world, and that's even without taking into account the melange of futurism. The answer isn't that they're being put in there artificially, it's that they'd always have been there and we've been historically terrible at showing it. It's not tokenism or trying to score points or any evil agenda of inclusion. It's what the lore is and has always been. I like that, since it's an automatic defeat of that classic whine about changing something "for diversity". 

 

Nah. It was already in there. It's nothing new. It wouldn't make any sense for it not to be in there. Argel Tal is from Babylon in Space. Of course he's not white. Iskandar Khayon is from Space Egypt. Of course he's not white. The Imperial Navy and Imperal army and Imperial Guard are institutions of such staggering vastness and variety of culture that of course there's not going to be any particular majority of skin colour, any bias either way, and a fair balance of gender representation. And in 40K, no one cares.

 

It's one of those awesome moments where sticking to the lore - and, indeed, realism - gives everyone what they want.

[Dosjetka]

=][= Folks, you know the rules: references to current real-world politics and "ideological issues" (for lack of a better term) is not allowed. Be aware of sensitive subjects and keep away from them. =][=

[deathspectersgt7]

Yeah, when does Black Legion come out? It's been 24 hours. No excuse it isn't done yet

August!

And it's almost done. Been writing it for ages...

Very cool looking forward to this. Also maybe a new plastic Abbaddon to go with the Book.

[Cleanse And Purify]

 

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

What an odd interpretation. If the authors write something, isn't it by definition part of 40k lore? I understand you're an intensely conservative fellow when it comes to the background, but clearly at this point the Imperial Webway is a plot point that has been long in the making and wasn't just a whim of Dan Abnett, John French, and ADB (or like, whomever).

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Webway not park of 40k?.......lol wut?

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

 

Anyway, I will not say anything more about this, as I know this forum's no politics discussion!

 

 

That's the crucial point, here. It isn't politics, really. It's just misinterpreted that way. It isn't an agenda, or anything artificial - I always hearken back to that worst email I ever received: "Why are there so many women and sandn******s in your books?"

 

Because, to that person, it was an invasion of non-whiteness, non-defaultness into his setting. It seemed like some weird artificial agenda. I can see why! But there are so many women and non-white people in my novels because, simply put, there are so many women and non-white people in the world, and that's even without taking into account the melange of futurism. The answer isn't that they're being put in there artificially, it's that they'd always have been there and we've been historically terrible at showing it. It's not tokenism or trying to score points or any evil agenda of inclusion. It's what the lore is and has always been. I like that, since it's an automatic defeat of that classic whine about changing something "for diversity". 

 

Nah. It was already in there. It's nothing new. It wouldn't make any sense for it not to be in there. Argel Tal is from Babylon in Space. Of course he's not white. Iskandar Khayon is from Space Egypt. Of course he's not white. The Imperial Navy and Imperal army and Imperial Guard are institutions of such staggering vastness and variety of culture that of course there's not going to be any particular majority of skin colour, any bias either way, and a fair balance of gender representation. And in 40K, no one cares.

 

It's one of those awesome moments where sticking to the lore - and, indeed, realism - gives everyone what they want.

 

 

Thanks for this, Aaron! I'm really glad your dogged sticking to the lore results in MoM, Talon and others where the future is the way you write it.

 

=][= Folks, you know the rules: references to current real-world politics and "ideological issues" (for lack of a better term) is not allowed. Be aware of sensitive subjects and keep away from them*. =][=

 

*Editing posts to remove such content while trying to keep the author's original intent and meaning is bloody difficult. And simply hiding them would be counter-productive.

 

Thanks for not hiding them, Dosjetka, and sorry to have raised this spectre!

[A D-B]

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

 

And, peeking into the afterword of the book, it pains me to again disagree with Aaron on his interpretation of the 40K setting, as I think I have done before. The point of the 40K setting is not that mankind is about to die. It is that the strife will simply never end. Chaos, Orks, or Tyranids can never be defeated by conventional means. They will allways be there. So mankind has to continue fighting the most grueling wars. There is only war, so to say.

 

Naw, it was long before the series, dude. Collected Visions has all the core webway lore regarding the Emperor's plans. The series didn't invent anything for it.

 

And I agree with you (as I said in an earlier post) regarding the theme - it's not the only theme, but it is one of the major two. As I mentioned, the second theme is "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." The endless stalemate that we will never see end. We have allusions to how it might end. We can ascertain how it probably will, and what's ultimately on the cards. We have very likely theories. But it's not for us to know, since it'll never happen. And, thankfully, nothing definitive is in the novel despite attempts to say otherwise. Yes, it's fair to say that we "know" how 40K would end, but it's irrelevant because it's thematic assumption and will never, ever be seen. 

 

On a wider point, not specific to you, Legs - I love your last point regarding the Emperor, and I'm inclined to agree, through a certain lens. It's something a lot of people do, and I never, ever understand it. I didn't watch The Fellowship of the Ring and think "That's it? Those characters are done now?" I knew there was more. I knew The Two Towers and The Return of the King were coming. I didn't think "I don't understand, I heard Aragorn was King of Minas Tirith..." and then find Peter Jackson some unbearable human being for not showing that part yet. 

 

Characters (the good ones, at least...) have arcs. Like we even know the Emperor undergoes, from, well, the one that's always been in the lore, when it takes him seeing Sanguinius dead to finally realise how far Horus has gone, etc. and what's really happened. And that's not even taking into account that TMoM even counteracts a lot of the very things it says itself, carefully leaving nothing definite. It's so bizarre to see people taking X or Y as fact, and then rising up either in support or against it. 

 

Such as:

 

 

He doesn't even always refer to the primarchs in those terms. There are key moments where he doesn't, or his tone changes, or something else in the scene subtly shifts. Look at the context in those moments. Almost every comment I've seen seems to get it, thankfully. As I said before: "Like characters such as Land seeing him as detached and emotionless in manner and speech (he sees the perfect scientist, the God of Science and Scientists, beyond emotional attachment to his creations), Ra seeing him as distant but dutiful (he sees a king, distant from humanity but utterly dutiful, in Ra's own image, willing to do whatever is necessary to keep the species going), and Diocletian seeing flashes of more emotion once everything has all come crashing down (he sees humanity's saviour who was just forced to leave the Throne), and so on."

 

Even Rogal Dorn is irritated by the Custodians' stoicism, and that scene heavily (and I was worried, that it even unsubtly) implies he's used to a far more informal relationship with his dad, and it's a ballache that the Emperor is so focused on the Throne, and needs to deal through intermediaries. This isn't business as normal. No character in the novel acts like it is. Not one. They're all faced with unprecedented choices and situations. Some repeatedly. It's business at the bleeding edge of losing everything.

 

[Sete]

I liked the fact that the Sisters saw him as he truly was.

Also the daughters of the Anathema? There is a story behind that.

[Cleanse And Purify]

 

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

 

And, peeking into the afterword of the book, it pains me to again disagree with Aaron on his interpretation of the 40K setting, as I think I have done before. The point of the 40K setting is not that mankind is about to die. It is that the strife will simply never end. Chaos, Orks, or Tyranids can never be defeated by conventional means. They will allways be there. So mankind has to continue fighting the most grueling wars. There is only war, so to say.

 

Naw, it was long before the series, dude. Collected Visions has all the core webway lore regarding the Emperor's plans. The series didn't invent anything for it.

 

And I agree with you (as I said in an earlier post) regarding the theme - it's not the only theme, but it is one of the major two. As I mentioned, the second theme is "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." The endless stalemate that we will never see end. We have allusions to how it might end. We can ascertain how it probably will, and what's ultimately on the cards. We have very likely theories. But it's not for us to know, since it'll never happen. And, thankfully, nothing definitive is in the novel despite attempts to say otherwise. Yes, it's fair to say that we "know" how 40K would end, but it's irrelevant because it's thematic assumption and will never, ever be seen. 

 

On a wider point, not specific to you, Legs - I love your last point regarding the Emperor, and I'm inclined to agree, through a certain lens. It's something a lot of people do, and I never, ever understand it. I didn't watch The Fellowship of the Ring and think "That's it? Those characters are done now?" I knew there was more. I knew The Two Towers and The Return of the King were coming. I didn't think "I don't understand, I heard Aragorn was King of Minas Tirith..." and then find Peter Jackson some unbearable human being for not showing that part yet. 

 

Characters (the good ones, at least...) have arcs. Like we even know the Emperor undergoes, from, well, the one that's always been in the lore, when it takes him seeing Sanguinius dead to finally realise how far Horus has gone, etc. and what's really happened. And that's not even taking into account that TMoM even counteracts a lot of the very things it says itself, carefully leaving nothing definite. It's so bizarre to see people taking X or Y as fact, and then rising up either in support or against it. 

 

Such as:

 

 

He doesn't even always refer to the primarchs in those terms. There are key moments where he doesn't, or his tone changes, or something else in the scene subtly shifts. Look at the context in those moments. Almost every comment I've seen seems to get it, thankfully. As I said before: "Like characters such as Land seeing him as detached and emotionless in manner and speech (he sees the perfect scientist, the God of Science and Scientists, beyond emotional attachment to his creations), Ra seeing him as distant but dutiful (he sees a king, distant from humanity but utterly dutiful, in Ra's own image, willing to do whatever is necessary to keep the species going), and Diocletian seeing flashes of more emotion once everything has all come crashing down (he sees humanity's saviour who was just forced to leave the Throne), and so on."

 

Even Rogal Dorn is irritated by the Custodians' stoicism, and that scene heavily (and I was worried, that it even unsubtly) implies he's used to a far more informal relationship with his dad, and it's a ballache that the Emperor is so focused on the Throne, and needs to deal through intermediaries. This isn't business as normal. No character in the novel acts like it is. Not one. They're all faced with unprecedented choices and situations. Some repeatedly. It's business at the bleeding edge of losing everything.

 

 

My older brother and I were discussing the novel last night (because what would brothers do besides discuss the vagaries of various fictional worlds?) and he made a point that I thought was pretty cool. It's established that the Emperor's appearance changes based on who perceives him. What if his words change based upon who hears him as well? A case of "I am all things to all men," as a prophet once said.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I liked the fact that the Sisters saw him as he truly was.

Also the daughters of the Anathema? There is a story behind that.

Can you eloborate on that comment in the form of a spoiler please?

[Sete]

Well not a spoiler really. He is just a man. :D

Albeit a very powerful one.

Like it was said before everyone sees him on a different way, a cold and calculating scientist, a duty full warlord, etc. Since I assume his chamaeleon powers don't work on the Sisters, they see him as he truly is.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

If it's what I think you mean, it's that they see him as a normal man wth extraordinary power. Who probably has the #1 tinder account viewed by sob.

[Legatus]

 

 

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

What an odd interpretation. If the authors write something, isn't it by definition part of 40k lore? I understand you're an intensely conservative fellow when it comes to the background, but clearly at this point the Imperial Webway is a plot point that has been long in the making and wasn't just a whim of Dan Abnett, John French, and ADB (or like, whomever).

 

 

I had checked up on 'Visions of Heresy' and had quoted a bit from it earlier, and in that bit, which is a very broad overview over what the Emperor intended to do once the Great Crusade was about done, it does not mention the webway project at all. It describes his goal to guard the psychic development of mankind, and what technology and steps he would require for it. So even though the webway project had been around since the earlier 'Collected Visions' book, in this newer edition the author does not seem to put much significance on it.

 

The webway is mentioned at a later point in the 'Collected Visions' book, as the Emperor and the Custodians battle against daemons trying to enter the palace through the webway as the fleets of Horus close in on Terra. Here the webway is a further struggle, and the Emperor now has to keep the gates closed and the daemonic hordes at bay. It is a further reason for why he must sit on the golden throne, perpetually keeping the daemonic hordes from being unleashed on Terra. It was not really a significant part of his agenda for mankind to move forward, more like an interesting side project, and now an additional pressing reason for why the Emperor absolutely has to survive.

 

 

---

 

 

On a wider point, not specific to you, Legs - I love your last point regarding the Emperor, and I'm inclined to agree, through a certain lens. It's something a lot of people do, and I never, ever understand it. I didn't watch The Fellowship of the Ring and think "That's it? Those characters are done now?" I knew there was more. I knew The Two Towers and The Return of the King were coming. I didn't think "I don't understand, I heard Aragorn was King of Minas Tirith..." and then find Peter Jackson some unbearable human being for not showing that part yet. 

 

Characters (the good ones, at least...) have arcs. Like we even know the Emperor undergoes, from, well, the one that's always been in the lore, when it takes him seeing Sanguinius dead to finally realise how far Horus has gone, etc. and what's really happened. And that's not even taking into account that TMoM even counteracts a lot of the very things it says itself, carefully leaving nothing definite. It's so bizarre to see people taking X or Y as fact, and then rising up either in support or against it.

 

This was not the first time, and it will not be the last time, that passages from a Black Library book are taken at complete face value. And admittedly it is hard to argue if it is the Emperor putting forward certain notions. Hopefully a later book will relativize this scene and expose it as a mere temporary faltering of the Emperor. (Even though that in itself might be difficult for some people to take).

 

I am sorry, I think I took your stance on mankind being definitely about to go under as more determined than you meant it.

[Cleanse And Purify]

I guess I just don't understand the objection to the Imperial Webway as a major plot point. It makes a lot of sense: any intergalactic empire lives or dies based on how well it can travel between the points of its empire, and the Imperial Webway makes it so humanity doesn't need to travel through literal hell to go from point Primus to point Secundus. It makes sense that this becomes the Emperor's obsession, and one of his main goals.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

As I said earlier, the Webway is not part of the 40K lore. It is a new element made up specifically for the Horus Heresy series, and the authors are now trying to give it significance.

 

And, peeking into the afterword of the book, it pains me to again disagree with Aaron on his interpretation of the 40K setting, as I think I have done before. The point of the 40K setting is not that mankind is about to die. It is that the strife will simply never end. Chaos, Orks, or Tyranids can never be defeated by conventional means. They will allways be there. So mankind has to continue fighting the most grueling wars. There is only war, so to say.

Naw, it was long before the series, dude. Collected Visions has all the core webway lore regarding the Emperor's plans. The series didn't invent anything for it.

 

And I agree with you (as I said in an earlier post) regarding the theme - it's not the only theme, but it is one of the major two. As I mentioned, the second theme is "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." The endless stalemate that we will never see end. We have allusions to how it might end. We can ascertain how it probably will, and what's ultimately on the cards. We have very likely theories. But it's not for us to know, since it'll never happen. And, thankfully, nothing definitive is in the novel despite attempts to say otherwise. Yes, it's fair to say that we "know" how 40K would end, but it's irrelevant because it's thematic assumption and will never, ever be seen.

 

On a wider point, not specific to you, Legs - I love your last point regarding the Emperor, and I'm inclined to agree, through a certain lens. It's something a lot of people do, and I never, ever understand it. I didn't watch The Fellowship of the Ring and think "That's it? Those characters are done now?" I knew there was more. I knew The Two Towers and The Return of the King were coming. I didn't think "I don't understand, I heard Aragorn was King of Minas Tirith..." and then find Peter Jackson some unbearable human being for not showing that part yet.

 

Characters (the good ones, at least...) have arcs. Like we even know the Emperor undergoes, from, well, the one that's always been in the lore, when it takes him seeing Sanguinius dead to finally realise how far Horus has gone, etc. and what's really happened. And that's not even taking into account that TMoM even counteracts a lot of the very things it says itself, carefully leaving nothing definite. It's so bizarre to see people taking X or Y as fact, and then rising up either in support or against it.

 

Such as:

 

 

He doesn't even always refer to the primarchs in those terms. There are key moments where he doesn't, or his tone changes, or something else in the scene subtly shifts. Look at the context in those moments. Almost every comment I've seen seems to get it, thankfully. As I said before: "Like characters such as Land seeing him as detached and emotionless in manner and speech (he sees the perfect scientist, the God of Science and Scientists, beyond emotional attachment to his creations), Ra seeing him as distant but dutiful (he sees a king, distant from humanity but utterly dutiful, in Ra's own image, willing to do whatever is necessary to keep the species going), and Diocletian seeing flashes of more emotion once everything has all come crashing down (he sees humanity's saviour who was just forced to leave the Throne), and so on."

 

Even Rogal Dorn is irritated by the Custodians' stoicism, and that scene heavily (and I was worried, that it even unsubtly) implies he's used to a far more informal relationship with his dad, and it's a ballache that the Emperor is so focused on the Throne, and needs to deal through intermediaries. This isn't business as normal. No character in the novel acts like it is. Not one. They're all faced with unprecedented choices and situations. Some repeatedly. It's business at the bleeding edge of losing everything.

People think this is the end of the arc because of the opacity about what each book will cover. In the era of serialized storytelling in a few clicks of the buttons on our remotes and phones we can jump into wikis about Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, and Game of Thrones. We've got zero intel on what book will cover the emperor next and who may be writing him after you and that's uncomfortable to most people. Imagine if in one episode Tywin Lannister was the stern realist everyone loved to hate, and in the next he's engaging and loving to Tyrion on the drop of a dime. Then the week after he's lecturing on the importance of forgiving the Stark's. The Horus Heresy series is filled with characters that bear almost no resemblance to their other portrayals by other authors (literally every Primarch). If we knew who was doing what then we'd feel a little better about being patient. Like I'm fine waiting for John to come back to Dorn because he's just so damn good at fists. I'd not be happy if I knew the next installment of the solar war was going to be written be Paise B. Haley.

[Atia]

Have I said how AWESOME it is to get a female knight baroness in one of the novels? Because it is. Thanks Aaron. So. Awesome.

[DukeLeto69]

What I don't understand from this thread is the way some people seem unable to accept that the lore is evolving and has done to some degree since 1987 and Rogue Trader. As time has gone on it has become apparent that some things in the lore either don't make sense or could make better sense. The original Collected Visions (which was really an opportunity to put some narrative around the card game artwork for Horus Heresy) didn't always make sense and there was some real difficulties reconciling the timeline of events (sorry Alan Merrit). I mean after all the Horus Heresy itself wasn't much more than a short entry in the lore and came about due to the need to find a way to justify the Adeltus Titanicus game only having marine/imperial factions in the beginning!

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Agreed, although the secrecy behind the webway still makes no sense to me it is a composted subject, which hides behind such a simple goal. The expand the realm of humanity via a "safe" means and to allow shelter from warp travel to allow humans to develop their senses freely.

 

The Emperor is kinda like the DC character Dr Manhattan. Extremely powerful and all knowing but prone to human emotion under extreme stress.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

*complicated subject* not *composted subject* I am unable to edit posts via mobile for some reason.