Boudan Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 ***SPOILER ALERT: THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILING INFORMATION*** I've recently begun reading the one-off space marine novel "Brotherhood of the Snake" by Dan Abnett. I'm enjoying the work quite a bit, although I find the jumps in time and location to be slightly disconnecting for the reader (i.e. me). Within the first vignette, the space marine character Priad successfully dispatches somewhere between 10 and 15+ dark eldar raiders who have crash-landed on a lower-tech but civilized and inhabited Imperial world. My understanding of the Dark Eldar is that they are Eldar who have chosen a life outside of the craftworld environment. They remain Eldar. Aren't all Eldar trained in combat? Don't all Eldar have significant speed and agility comparable or greater to that of an Astartes? Other Black Library fiction I have read suggest that the Eldar are definitely no joke singularly. How could Priad kill so many without even suffering a wound? Thanks for any feedback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 ***SPOILER ALERT: THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILING INFORMATION*** I've recently begun reading the one-off space marine novel "Brotherhood of the Snake" by Dan Abnett. I'm enjoying the work quite a bit, although I find the jumps in time and location to be slightly disconnecting for the reader (i.e. me). Within the first vignette, the space marine character Priad successfully dispatches somewhere between 10 and 15+ dark eldar raiders who have crash-landed on a lower-tech but civilized and inhabited Imperial world. My understanding of the Dark Eldar is that they are Eldar who have chosen a life outside of the craftworld environment. They remain Eldar. Aren't all Eldar trained in combat? Don't all Eldar have significant speed and agility comparable or greater to that of an Astartes? Other Black Library fiction I have read suggest that the Eldar are definitely no joke singularly. How could Priad kill so many without even suffering a wound? Thanks for any feedback. Dark Eldar tend to have significantly weaker armour than their craftworld kin and also feed upon suffering. If they haven't fed yet they are easier to kill. Additionally, these are likely the inferior vatborn/clone born eldar that makeup the backbone of Kaballite forces (these ones may not even be trained in the kabals, depending on where the raiders came from), rather then their trueborn kin. That added to the fact that a crash landing could have had them fighting at reduced efficacy due to injuries or damage to their equipment, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch. Remember, kill the xenos before it has time to establish itself, and use any advantage you can against them, for they will not hesitate against you. ;) (All that being said, I would have to read it myself to know the full context, it might just be action hero syndrome.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4576790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Brotherhood of the Snake is one of my favorites. Already read it 4 or 5 times. The scene you've mentioned...I would say it's the normal "my character is awesome" scene. Maybe those Eldar were still exhausted because of crash-landing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4576812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dan's Brotherhood of the Snake and resulting shorts all have big problems with "power levels" compared to everything else, I've found. Heck, there's an advent short from a few years back where Priad of Damocles kicks orks around on a planet, on his own, for 15 years! His mission literally was to keep the orks busy for a decade and a half until extraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4576826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Yeah, besides that it's enjoyable. I liked the 300-ish scene. ^^ Though it was mostly copy + paste. Nevertheless quite entertaining. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4576831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I thought only Eldar melee spacialists give SM fits Guardians and Dark Eldar grunts should get pasted by SM, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4576849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 ***SPOILER ALERT: THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILING INFORMATION*** I've recently begun reading the one-off space marine novel "Brotherhood of the Snake" by Dan Abnett. I'm enjoying the work quite a bit, although I find the jumps in time and location to be slightly disconnecting for the reader (i.e. me). Within the first vignette, the space marine character Priad successfully dispatches somewhere between 10 and 15+ dark eldar raiders who have crash-landed on a lower-tech but civilized and inhabited Imperial world. My understanding of the Dark Eldar is that they are Eldar who have chosen a life outside of the craftworld environment. They remain Eldar. Aren't all Eldar trained in combat? Don't all Eldar have significant speed and agility comparable or greater to that of an Astartes? Other Black Library fiction I have read suggest that the Eldar are definitely no joke singularly. How could Priad kill so many without even suffering a wound? Thanks for any feedback. Did you get to the part where a single squad of Iron Snakes slaughters two thousand Dark Eldar? Or even the parts where they fight the Orks? The Dark Eldar get fodderized pretty badly in this novel. Eldar tend to come off better in other novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Do remember it comes from a time when Dark Elder were only a few years old, and were - on the table - quite a bit rubbish and undeveloped! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 remember that in game terms a dark eldar may have a good chance of killing a SM. In the fluff world, they get ravaged rather hard one on one, unless they are a specialist, named Character or god forbid a Phoenix Lord. Those guys are monsters in the fluff too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 i believe there's an intentional contrast between the relatively easy slaughter of thousands of dark eldest by the snakes and then their struggle with smaller forces later in the book. it might be as simple as some days you're on, some days you're off but i also think the dark eldar part is to be taken in a "legendary" context of embellishment and grand tales, while other parts of the novel are closer to stark reality. abnett implied that an eldar warrior was one of loken's most honoured foes and hardest victories in HR, so he's well aware of their abilities in relation to astartes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudan Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 Well no, I haven't gotten to the part where a squad of Snakes kills 2,000 Dark Eldar. But I imagine I'll find it soon enough. I guess I find this power discrepancy a little surprising. I chose this book to read because of how much I adored the Eisenhorn series and also admired the Ravenor series. Those books, while fantastical in parts, are not wholly unrealistic (in setting!) about the combat prowess of any one actor, including Astartes and Chaos Marines. You may recall those types make brief appareances in a few spots of the aforementioned series, and are well written characterizations, IMO. Teetengee's explanation of the distinguishing characteristics of vat-borne dark Eldar made me think I have some background reading to do, although that is perhaps a little unfair to me as the reader. Subsequent posts have me wondering in a different direction. I guess the cool/lame part of 40K fiction is that its all right AND wrong, because the narration is always suspect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 ***SPOILER ALERT: THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILING INFORMATION*** I've recently begun reading the one-off space marine novel "Brotherhood of the Snake" by Dan Abnett. I'm enjoying the work quite a bit, although I find the jumps in time and location to be slightly disconnecting for the reader (i.e. me). Within the first vignette, the space marine character Priad successfully dispatches somewhere between 10 and 15+ dark eldar raiders who have crash-landed on a lower-tech but civilized and inhabited Imperial world. My understanding of the Dark Eldar is that they are Eldar who have chosen a life outside of the craftworld environment. They remain Eldar. Aren't all Eldar trained in combat? Don't all Eldar have significant speed and agility comparable or greater to that of an Astartes? Other Black Library fiction I have read suggest that the Eldar are definitely no joke singularly. How could Priad kill so many without even suffering a wound? Thanks for any feedback. Cause it's Abnett - whose SM are actually the worst ever (outside HH). And Brotherhood of the Snake is his worst BL book ever. It is predictable, SM has 'plot armour' and DE are chuff to scythe through them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I'm not sure vat-grown dark eldar are inferior to trueborns, even though the latter certainly believes so. According to the old Index Xenos article on eldar pirates, dark eldar moved so fast as they slaughtered civilians in one video that the imperial authorities that recovered the camera needed to slow it several times before they stopped being undistinguishable blurs. Let that sink in. They move faster than humans react. Going from their respective initiative values in the game, dark eldar are to space marines what space marines are to humans, and they're already supposed to be much faster than regular meatbags. Marduk from Anthony Reinolds' Word Bearers trilogy wishes he was written by Dan Abnett. Dark Disciple spoiler: If Dan Abnett had written him, he wouldn't have needed to be possessed by Slaanesh to defeat the dark eldar who abducted him. Also, I suggest putting the spoiler warning in the title itself instead of the first post. It won't necessarily be the first thing one's eyes will read upon clicking on this thread, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I'm not sure vat-grown dark eldar are inferior to trueborns, even though the latter certainly believes so. According to the old Index Xenos article on eldar pirates, dark eldar moved so fast as they slaughtered civilians in one video that the imperial authorities that recovered the camera needed to slow it several times before they stopped being undistinguishable blurs. Let that sink in. They move faster than humans react. Going from their respective initiative values in the game, dark eldar are to space marines what space marines are to humans, and they're already supposed to be much faster than regular meatbags. Marduk from Anthony Reinolds' Word Bearers trilogy wishes he was written by Dan Abnett. Dark Disciple spoiler: If Dan Abnett had written him, he wouldn't have needed to be possessed by Slaanesh to defeat the dark eldar who abducted him. Also, I suggest putting the spoiler warning in the title itself instead of the first post. It won't necessarily be the first thing one's eyes will read upon clicking on this thread, after all. Amazing Point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I'm not sure vat-grown dark eldar are inferior to trueborns, even though the latter certainly believes so. -snip- Yeah, I largely agree with that. Although, vat-grown are going to have worse equipment. If they were also not all front line soldiery (perhaps pilots and similar) then one marine taking out a dozen seems somewhat reasonable, particularly after a crash. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . Lol, you are for a long wait of at least 10-20 years, lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4577875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . The next Iron Snakes book will probably be written by Matthew Farrer, if I remember correctly. There's also a few shorts by Dan and Nik. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4578008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Trueborn are like noble knights in medieval Europe, they have access to better training but regular soldiers can work their way up the ranks. Regular vat grown Kabalite warriors are still better trained than Eldar Guardians (at least traditionally). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4578077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Trueborn are like noble knights in medieval Europe, they have access to better training but regular soldiers can work their way up the ranks. Regular vat grown Kabalite warriors are still better trained than Eldar Guardians (at least traditionally). Vat grown Kabalite warriors are, but these were raiders, which may not be full kabalites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4578586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . The next Iron Snakes book will probably be written by Matthew Farrer, if I remember correctly. There's also a few shorts by Dan and Nik. No tis not an Iron Snakes standalone book - tis a SMB novel in SW crusade setting. He finished it already and waiting till Abnett finishes 'Warmaster' - cause they are simultenious release for Urdesh campaign Trueborn are like noble knights in medieval Europe, they have access to better training but regular soldiers can work their way up the ranks. Regular vat grown Kabalite warriors are still better trained than Eldar Guardians (at least traditionally). Vat grown Kabalite warriors are, but these were raiders, which may not be full kabalites. They actually are Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4578901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 -snip- Trueborn are like noble knights in medieval Europe, they have access to better training but regular soldiers can work their way up the ranks. Regular vat grown Kabalite warriors are still better trained than Eldar Guardians (at least traditionally). Vat grown Kabalite warriors are, but these were raiders, which may not be full kabalites. They actually are As in you are claiming that all raiders are full kabalites (which I would disagree with), or you are informing me that in the book they were mentioned to be kabalites? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4579030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . Lol, you are for a long wait of at least 10-20 years, lol Damn I'll worm food by then . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4579657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 -snip- Trueborn are like noble knights in medieval Europe, they have access to better training but regular soldiers can work their way up the ranks. Regular vat grown Kabalite warriors are still better trained than Eldar Guardians (at least traditionally). Vat grown Kabalite warriors are, but these were raiders, which may not be full kabalites. They actually are As in you are claiming that all raiders are full kabalites (which I would disagree with), or you are informing me that in the book they were mentioned to be kabalites? in the book they were mentioned to be kabalites - sorry if I didn't pointed that clearer. I have read it 5 times some parts of it are well ,Goofy . But over all liked it . Still waiting for the next book . Lol, you are for a long wait of at least 10-20 years, lol Damn I'll worm food by then . He had a lot to do in comics (which pays more) and being a human being he need rest, food, money and family love. That take a lot of time So - in all seriousness - he had comics, book prequels and graphic novels list for 2017 with !dozens! of titles. The only one of BL related where is Warmaster, lol (and mainly because tis half written, lol) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4580136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 He also worked on two Tomb Raider novels with Nik in the meantime. Not that they seem particularly good according to reviews... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328288-brotherhood-of-the-snake-by-dan-abnett/#findComment-4580484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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