Has anyone ranked the Dreadnoughts?

[tuco]

I've always liked the idea of the Dreadnought, and through different editions of the game I've had differing levels of appreciation for their effectiveness on the table.  

 

Having just picked up 30k after being away from the game for a while, it looks like there are a good number of Dreads of different design, and I'm wondering which ones are worth their points.  I know that they're each, to a certain extent, designed with an area of expertise in mind, but which ones (if any) are on top?

[Pyroclast91]

I can't really say for game effectiveness since mine haven't seen a game yet but I can tell you the Leviathan is one of the most enjoyable models I think I've ever put together and painted ;) As far as effectiveness goes I think that would more depend what you need the dread to do. If you want AA take Deredeos or Leviathans with the storm cannons or if your lite on points take a mortis Contemptor or Castra Ferrum. Myself personally I have a serious Dreadnought addiction i'll actually be finishing up 4 of them tonight :D With that said I can see a Dreadnought fitting just about any occasion thanks to there fantastically wide array of weapons options. So really IMO I think it mainly depends how many points you're trying to spend and which slot you have open in your force org chart.

[Nightmare84]

leviathan are great at everything. but i always keep atleast 1 cc arm

deredeo are awesome mid anti armour.

cortus contemptor i usea lot more than contemptor primes. they are soo good for their points.

i dont like look of  box dreads so no comment there

 

 

its hard to rank them as they each have a purpose depending how you build them. most cost effective though is 3x cortus contemptors with  2x ccw. 400pts for 9 hp which act independently 

[norngahl]

Perrsonally I feel the Cortus are the best, keep them blank or with double grav and footslogging.

 

Deredeo is too expensive what it does, 3x Quad Mortar with Shatter Shells will do it better.

 

Leviathans. Yes, 3 of them in a pod are a mean thing. A single one in pod.. is so expensive, you can get a knight lancer instead. I know which one will cause more havoc. Still, a solid choice if you want to stick to pure legion.

 

Contemptor Primes are way too expensive, especially in pods.

 

Mortis dreads are fair, but outshined by other options, especially quad mortars.

 

Box dreads.. yeah, no. Just look at them..

[Bob Hunk]

To add a different - and potentially incorrect - opinion; I've found myself underwhelmed by the performance of Contemptor Cortus dreadnoughts and pleased with the value-for-points of the Mortis box dreadnoughts.

[Gorgoff]

I second that.

Mortis Dreadnoughts are king at shooting aircraft and light vehicles. Deredeos too. That's why it's kind of strange that norngahl compares it with Quad Mortars. They have different roles on the battlefield.

I can't understand why you see to think that Dreadnoughts have to be transported in Pods. That is simply not true in my humble opinion. I always let my Contemptor with Kheres and Grav Gun walk and he really gets :cuss done. ;)

Same with the Leviathan.

[Ishagu]

Cortus is the best CC Dread.

Requires a bit more finesse because of his weak side armour, but point for point the damage output in CC is great, and has reliability with Fleet and move through cover.

 

Deredeo is the best ranged Dread.

Auto Cannons and Missiles are the optimum weapons. Great for harassing infantry and popping light to medium vehicles and flyers alike.

 

Regular Contemptor is too pricey, the Mortis is largely inferior to a Deredeo.

 

The Leviathan has impressive rules, but unfortunately it has to be compared to a Knight because the cost is almost the same. A Knight is more survivable, faster, more consistent and has Stomp.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

A Levi with a drill will wreck any Knight. The ability to pod them makes them highly survivable on the drop and very dangerous.

[Terminus]

Leviathan is way better at melee than the Cortus, which people seem to forget has WS4 and no save in melee. It's good at punching vehicles, against units a single meltabomb has it sweating bullets.

 

By the way, thank the Four for the FAQ. Dreads got a nice boost.

 

The comparison above between Deredeos and Quad Mortars is ludicrous. No, quad mortars cannot do the same thing. I'm not even going to bother elaborating since that contention could have only arose out of never reading the Deredeo's rules.

[Ishagu]

Yes, the Levi is better than a Cortus. Problem is I can have almost 3 Cortus for the price of one Levi.

 

I'll be honest, I have played against Leviathan Dreadnoughts a few times now. One has never made it into assault against me.

 

Granted my army has a lot of Tank Hunter and Rending, but at least a Knight has good, long range firepower and can be deployed defensively.

 

A Levi has to be played with aggression. I'll concede that if you dropped 3 of them in Pods next to my army on turn 1, I'd struggle to contain them all. I'm not worried about that happening often as 3 in Pods would cost 1200+ points.

 

Also, The Deredeo and Quad Mortars is not a great comparison. Deredeo has great BS, Skyfire option, can redeploy and still fire effectively, etc.

[norngahl]

Most players at 2k-2,5k take one, two flyers max. After taking one flyer down, the 3 mortars have thrice the damage output.

 

A deredeo needs one round most times, sometimes two rounds to take out a fire raptor, anything else dies in 1. Then he is just a single quad mortar with only shatter.

 

The quad mortars need one round at best, 2 rounds worst to kill the raptor.

 

Lets face it, I'd ignore flyers most of the time.It's hard to get the optimal target after the initial hit and they often hardly make their points back.

 

If I want something from dreads, it's av13 in CC. To tie things uo, to get after those spartans and finish them off. Shooting.. better get it elsewhere.

[Ishagu]

In practice it never works out that way, ever.

 

The sheer abilities of the Deredeo to move around and shoot or to funnel flyers into areas away from it's Interceptor, thus disrupting your opponent, are invaluable.

 

3 Quad Mortars will get 8 hits, so clearly not Thrice the power. Their range is also only 36", not 48. Most tanks are shooting back from 48"

 

I actually run both Quad Mortars AND a Deredeo in practically all my lists. They are not the same thing.

 

Just like in practice the Grav Flux bombard of the Levi normally only kills 2 Termies or less when it's used because of model spread, invuls, etc. Not worth it, imo.

 

On paper things might appear better than they are...

[Baluc]

In practice it never works out that way, ever.

 

The sheer abilities of the Deredeo to move around and shoot or to funnel flyers into areas away from it's Interceptor, thus disrupting your opponent, are invaluable.

 

3 Quad Mortars will get 8 hits, so clearly not Thrice the power. Their range is also only 36", not 48. Most tanks are shooting back from 48"

 

I actually run both Quad Mortars AND a Deredeo in practically all my lists. They are not the same thing.

 

Just like in practice the Grav Flux bombard of the Levi normally only kills 2 Termies or less when it's used because of model spread, invuls, etc. Not worth it, imo.

 

On paper things might appear better than they are...

 

Helical Targetting Array is... disappointing. You lose the mobility you gain for being on the walker, but you also swap to skyfire at the start of your turn hoping for your opponent to roll the reserve roll, and then deploy in a way that you can use all your guns. I feel like the better way to position the Deredeo is as a more flexible quad mortar.

 

As to the Levi, Grav-flux is about taking out the ubiquitous quad mortar units, as quickly and easily as possible.

 

For me the list goes:

 

1. Levi - Grav-flux

2. Levi - Melta lance

3. Levi - Drill & Claw

4. not taking a dread

5. not taking a dread 

6. Deredeo

7. Cortus

8. Mortis casterfarum

9. Prime

10. Contemptor Mortis

11. Casterfarum

 

Difference to knight vs Levi for me is the urgency it forces on the opponent. A) it has alpha strike potential, and b) its cc follow up is a beast, c) its can be built to purpose and d) its not a Lord of War.

[Ishagu]

Good point about the Grav Flux dealing with Quad Mortars.

 

It's not hard to give Quad Mortars Interceptor however. They're a good unit for master of signal to join.

[Baluc]

Good point about the Grav Flux dealing with Quad Mortars.

 

It's not hard to give Quad Mortars Interceptor however. They're a good unit for master of signal to join.

 

Depends on your interpretation of Artillery and Interceptor. Artillery don't shoot their own weapons, they are models who are fired by other models. The crew are allowed to shoot the artillery piece in the shooting phase instead of their own weapons.

 

The augury scanner lets you fire "in the shooting phase", but since its my turn, you are def going after I shoot you with phosphex and grav-flux. Auguary scanners are a bit of a mess, it would seem like the language was added to allow rapiers and such to fire interceptor shots... but it doesn't actually protect them from alpha strikes. 

[Ishagu]

The Augury Scanner rule needs clarification but the intent is clearly a psuedo Interceptor on deepstriking units.

[Baluc]

The Augury Scanner rule needs clarification but the intent is clearly a psuedo Interceptor on deepstriking units.

 

There was easier way to do that though... And given how generally unaccessible DS is in HH, I'm not certain its really needed. But meh, I guess that is just me. 

 

Back on topic. I'm pretty set on that list, mostly the issue is the Walker rules in general, not providing very much to an inherently mediocre frame. What makes the Levi a consideration is that is friggin cool, it has 5 funs, all of which are great, its very survivable. Most importantly he ignores most of the issues walkers usually stumble over, with Frag Grenades, Extra Armour, move Through Cover and the Crushing Charge rule. Basically they made it as close to a MC as a walker can be, I'd like all walker to also have smash on their profile. 

[1000 Sons]

So many names to add to my enemies list, all you box dread haters !  The old forge world legion specific box dread were some of my favourite models, wish I had gotten more.  Contemptors look great, but too points heavy, hopefully they get the speeder/javelin treatment with a points drop.

[2gud2bbad]

I can see a Death Guard Boxnaught with a shredding flame storm cannon in a pod do some work. Or behind a pipe line.

[Lord Blackwood]

I have soured on leviathans a bit after playing against them enough. For the points a knight is better and will get more done especially if you have an army built to kill tanks to begin with.

 

Cortus dreadnoughts are just great either in an assault role or something as curveball as being a heavy conversion Beamer platform.

 

 

Deredos are fantastic any flyer tech and I agree funneling flyers away from its intercept arc is a great tactic to keep them away from stuff that is vulnerable to flyers. I wouldn't compare them to quad mortars tho.

[Gorgoff]

I think the main problem for Dreadnoughts is terrain. There are way to much groups who play on almost empty tables and that changes the whole game. Without any ruins and LOS blocking stuff you can't footslogg with your walkers because you probably get shoot to pieces very quickly.

So if we want to Talk about how effective unit XY is we have to talk about our tables first.

 

We play very terrain heavy which makes walkers much more effective. Like I said my Contemptor always get :cuss done. He walks towards the enemy, making potshots at things and often rushes into CC causing havoc.

Same with Leviathans.

And by the way. If you play terrain heavy you can bring way more units who are really crappy on open tables.

[Ishagu]

I play with lots of terrain, and that's why things like the Deredeo perform well. I might have no LoS for direct fire on a Quad Mort for example.

 

Also by that same token, if you're in decent cover (4+) a Cortus Contemptor has comparable survivability to a Leviathan.

[Gorgoff]

That's true.

But for me it feels like cheating playing my Contemptor miniature as an Cortus. ;)

Is that weird?

Maybe.

But that's how I roll. :D