b1soul Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 There should typically be around 10,000 Custodes...9,000 have been killed under the extraordinary circumstances of the Webway War Valdor, Captain-General of the 10,000 Amon ??? [Perhaps a warrior in Valdor's own squad?] Ra, Tribune of the Hykanatoi, leader of Dynastes squad, the last living Tribune of the 10,000 Sythran, warrior of the Hykanatoi, member of Dynastes Squad [Perhaps the squad champion or something like that?] Aquillon, Prefect of the Hykanatoi Diocletian, Prefect of the Hykanatoi Helios, Tribune of the ??? Jasaric, Tribune of the ??? Kadai, Tribune of the ??? Zhanmadao, Prefect of the Tharanatoi Hyaric, warrior of the Katapharaktoi Sagittarus, warrior of the Moritoi ...is this all the info we have so far? Any other ranks? Not sure how accurate this info is... Tribune - Senior Officer[15b] Prefect[15a] Shield-Captain - Squad Leader[13] Castes Custodians belong to a caste determined by their wargear and battlefield role.[15g] Hykanatoi[15a] Kataphraktoi[15a] - Jetbikers[15f] Moritoi[15a] - Dreadnoughts[15e] Tharanatoi[15a] - Terminators[15g] Sounds like...if Valdor were analogous to Legion Commander, Tribunes are chapter masters Prefects are captains Shield-captains are sergeants Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 MoM kinda made custodian ranks to be nebular, and anything below tribune seems to be almost meaningless. It appears that they either assigned leaders on an ad-hoc basis or were so fluidly drilled for working together that the heirarchy was not important. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4582830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Your 9000 dead figure may be wrong, as i dont think that all of the Ten Thousand Custodians went into the Webway. Valdor wasnt in the webway. There were still custodes on the walls, see the Hands of The Emperor short story for an example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4582917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I haven't read Blood Games in a long, long time but irrc Amon was a warrior of the First Circle which is evidently the highest cadre within the Legio. I'd expect Valdor and the Tribunes of the various castes to be included too along with other individuals who are distinguished in some way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4582962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 MoM kinda made custodian ranks to be nebular, and anything below tribune seems to be almost meaningless. It appears that they either assigned leaders on an ad-hoc basis or were so fluidly drilled for working together that the heirarchy was not important. "Their ranks seemed informal, like gestures of respect towards veterans and gifted individuals rather than a command structure to be rigidly adhered to. Few of them, even Tribune Endymion or those who shared Diocletian Coros’ rank of prefect, ever gave orders. They simply immersed themselves wherever the fighting was thickest, slaughtering in silence. And yet, there was unity. Unity of purpose, if nothing else." Granted, this is coming from the Mechanicum commander, who is used to a pretty hierarchical way of doing things but yeah, I think that even if the ranks are there, they're nowhere near as important to the Custodians as to astartes. They've all got heaps of names, they all act on their own initiative, they're all trained in stuff like linguistics and espionage, any one of them will comfortably look down their nose at a crusading astartes captain. I think their connection to the Emperor destroys the importance of any other oaths and bonds. Beyond the circles that Balthamal mentioned and the castes (unit type, right up to dreadnoughts), we don't get a look at any company, battalion or chapter-equivalent formation. We've seen consistent squads: Valdor's Ares Guard and Ra's Squad Dynastes but then Sythran from the Dynastes went to serve with Prefect Aquillon watching Lorgar and the WB. It feels looser than astartes organisation. That said, purely working out the mechanics of the ranks, I wasn't clear what proportion of of the Ten Thousand were sent into the webway. Valdor was still in the palace but three tribunes went in to fight the daemons, two of whom died. They weren't mentioned as being 'Tribune of Xth chapter' or anything so I think it's tricky so say how many men they led or even how many Tribunes there were in the whole legio custodes. Ultimately I think we're waiting for Inferno here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4582974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Has anyone tried translating ADBs Greek names for the specialization a yet? He mentioned all the terminators and stuff so we know they are inbound. Edit: It's always those little touches in his work I love the absolute best, and make his stuff a pleasure to read. Sometime I feel like I'm reading stories about codex entries but the inclusion of things like the Atramentar, Gal Vorbak, and Evocatii really give his work the feeling that these things are more than just models and points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Has anyone tried translating ADBs Greek names for the specialization a yet? He mentioned all the terminators and stuff so we know they are inbound. Edit: It's always those little touches in his work I love the absolute best, and make his stuff a pleasure to read. Sometime I feel like I'm reading stories about codex entries but the inclusion of things like the Atramentar, Gal Vorbak, and Evocatii really give his work the feeling that these things are more than just models and points. Hykanatoi appears to be an alternative spelling of Hikanatoi, the Able Ones, an elite tagma tasked with defending Constantinople. Kataphractoi, cataphracts, heavy cavalry units, make sense for jetbikers. Tharanatoi I can't find in my limited time. Moritoi seems to be based on Mortis, death/dead, fitting for a dreadnought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Awesome! Thanks man! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 I haven't read Blood Games in a long, long time but irrc Amon was a warrior of the First Circle which is evidently the highest cadre within the Legio. Forgot about that...good point Valdor was still in the palace but three tribunes went in to fight the daemons, two of whom died. They weren't mentioned as being 'Tribune of Xth chapter' or anything so I think it's tricky so say how many men they led or even how many Tribunes there were in the whole legio custodes. I think 4 went in and 3 died...Helios, Jas, and Kadai Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Agreed I'm very much looking forward to FW's fleshing out of the Custodes in the way they've done the Legions so far. Especially their creation process Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryltar Thamior Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 with regard to "Tharanatoi", the two things that spring instantly to mind are either a corruption of 'thanatos' - death; or "tharan" - a Celtic word for "thunder". (now, it might seem odd to be looking to languages other than Greek for the root-words for these ranks, given their "-oi" plural endings ... but using 'Moritoi' as a potential example - this may be a latinate root that's been Hellenicized. Or, alternatively, it's drawing upon the 'other' meaning for 'Moritat' as a German word meaning a tale of bloodshed - Dreadnoughts, as long-serving veterans, would certainly have no shortage of such personal legends)On the other hand ... there also exists another possibility - a term derived from "Athanatoi" ('immortals', 'without-death'), another military unit (initially composed of heavy cavalry, interestingly noted to be golden-armoured) of the Byzantine empire. It would certainly fit rather more closely with the 'theme naming' we've already seen for at least two other ranks. Although, if this is the case there's rather more linguistic drift going on to arrive at "Tharanatoi" from "Athanatoi" than "Hykanatoi" from "Hikanatoi". A *further* possibility is that it's a derivation from "Pharangoi" - itself a term used to refer to the much-vaunted Varangian Guard, who not only fulfilled a very similar battlefield role to terminators in some ways and acted as bodyguards ... but were also much-noted as having loyalty directly to the Byzantine Emperor himself, rather htan the broader Empire. Sound familiar? ]Huh. It also turns out "Moritoi" is a Mongolian word meaning 'having a horse' - potentially referring to the fact the Custodian in question, as a dreadnought, now has a mechanical 'mount' of sorts? Oh, and on a semi-related note (character-name derivation rather than unit/rank etymology) .. here's a Zhanmadao. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328467-custodes-hierachy-potential-spoilers/#findComment-4583210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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