Black Shields - 1000 Points - Feedback requested

[Dulahan]

So, this Sunday I begin with a 30k Escalation League at 1k points at the FLGS. And after much soul searching, and the fact the Thousand Sons rules aren't here yet, have decided to take in a Black Shields list. the fact this list takes less models than most of my other brainstorms may or may not have something else to do with it.

What I'm looking for is some feedback, lay it on me! How good or bad should this be? I'll also note the local meta apparently includes a lot of Dreadnoughts, and one possible opponent is someone using the big Justaerin Terminator Rite of War for the Sons of Horus. Not sure who I'll be playing yet, but the Meltas are very much in there for Dreadnought Busting.

So without further adieu:


Reaver Lord w/ Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Mastercrafted Halo Blade, Digital Lasers - 215

Master of Signal with Charnabal Sabre, Artificer Armor, Melta bomb - 120

Legion Assault Squad w/ Meltabombs (50), Plasma Pistol, Artificer Armor for the Sergeant - 250

Marauder Squad + 6 Marines, 9 Bolters, 2 Power Swords, Melta Bomb - 240

Legion Recon Squad + 1 Marine, Cameleoline, Art Armor, 6 Sniper Rifles - 175

1000 total.



One thing I was considering is dropping the Halo Blade to a Power Sword on the Reaver Lord, so I can add a third Power Sword to the Marauders (On the Sergeant). On top of that, I'd then get another attack from having a pistol instead of a 2h weapon. The MOS is naturally expected to drop the payload ASAP, but more importantly, I want to use him to Buff the Recon Squad. BS 5 Sniper Rifles sound pretty amazing.

I'm also looking for advice on which Black Shield Theme to use. If any. Orphans of War seems nice for the re-rolls of the 1s. While either the +1 S & T OR the +1 WS & BS options both seem pretty amazing as well, even in spite of drawbacks. So I'm really open to advice on this.

Anyways, who knows where it goes from here. I've dozens of Calth and Prospero models to work with, they're just not assembled yet and this was the fastest way to be ready by Sunday. Probably Dreadnought or more Marauders and a Termie squad or something though.

[orz]

Some random thoughts in no particular order. Take it with a grain of salt as I haven't actually played with or against Blackshields, but have done some listhammer on them planning my own force...

 

The big draw for Marauder squads is that they can take Chainaxes (now with +1 S) for free, and have access to a wider variety of weapons than a standard tactical squad. You've got some Power Swords, but aren't really leaning on the strengths of the unit. Axes and Shotguns are a popular combo. Whatever you go with, I'd cut one guy and stick this squad in a Rhino. Most of their best options are close-range and even at 1K points I don't think you want to be slogging them around the field.

 

Depending on how your local is taking the new FAQ, Meltabombs on the whole assault squad is a giant waste of points. Even if multibombing is still allowed I'd consider dropping them to free up points (say, for a Rhino...). I'd also ditch the plasma pistol on the seargeant and give him a Power Fist.

 

Master of Signals seems like an expensive points sink in 1K. The bombardment is cool, but his main reason for existing is the +1 BS to a unit. At this level, you can't maximize it very well. If you do keep him, definitely ditch the expensive wargear (MAYBE keep the AA). You don't want this guy anywhere near an assault.

 

Recon squad is cool and not commonly seen. If you're worried about Dreadnoughts maybe a heavy support squad with missile launchers would be better? (or lascannons, if you can find the points but it seems like a stretch)

 

For the theme, you can always try different ones and see what works best. They each work better with a list tailored to them but don't necessarily require you to rework your whole army. Orphans of War seems rough at 1K points, it needs multiple units close to each other to get the benefit so I feel like it wouldn't do much in a small game. With +1 WS / BS, you could safely drop the MoS and free up a good chunk of points for more bodies, even if you don't change anything else.

[Dulahan]

Probably not a bad idea, I somehow missed that a Sarge could take them in the Assault entry...  that'll get me 45 points instantly.

 

As for the rest, I concede they don't have the axes because the models don't.  And I'm still holding out hope for liking Thousand Sons rules.  So this is a placeholder list for fun until I know for sure.  fortunately the league is ok with unpainted in the meantime.

 

Also, Thank you very, very much for the commentary!  It's given some things to think about.

[orz]

Yeah, makes sense not to go all out modeling them as blackshields if you may not end up playing them that way. You can always use a bolters/flamers/armor as the Pariah versions. Might be fun to play around with those a bit and see how it goes. Have fun!

[Dulahan]

Sadly, it went absolutely terrible.  Ended up paired against a blood angels army.  Won the opening roll off... only to have him steal the initiative and get the first turn.  Then proceed to wipe out half my army in the opening shooting phase, forcing the assault squad to route off the board after they failed their leadership test (felt like the only time I could roll 5 or 6 the whole match!) and a good chunk of my marauder squad before they even made it to combat.

 

Recon did ok, though the terrain they were holed up in killed as many of the opposing assault squad as they did (which was funny, just bad roll on the opfor's case), then they died.

 

My Praetor was suitably monstrous in close combat... until the Dreadnought got involved.  That thing just stomped me.  Did wipe out the enemy Tac Squad at least.  but it ended on turn three with my entire force wiped out (other than the 5 cowards in the assault squad!).  Was obviously over before I even got a chance though, with how bad that opening shooting phase got me.

 

Seems a Dreadnought or other high armored vehicle is pretty much a necessity in my local meta.  Though I might consider a Heavy Support Squad with some Lascannons, not sure though.

 

Other thought is Marauders really aren't worth the points.  WAY too fragile for what you get.  Sure they get an extra CC attack, but they're just as vulnerable as a basic Tactical Squad.  So not sure I'll continue with Black Shields.   Que Sera!  That's the point of the opening rounds of such a league.  Here's to hoping Thousand Sons are compatible with my playstyle, because every other legion I like has already been taken. ;)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Any MEQ assault unit not in an assault transport is begging to get wasted, even at 1k points. 

[Dulahan]

Well, I definitely know Black Shields aren't for me because of this. 

 

I do wonder something else though.  For a Heavy Support Squad - Missiles, Lascannon, and Plasma - what is the general consensus there?

 

My local Meta is Dreadnoughts up the wazoo, and a lot of Terminators as well.  So Lascannon is definitely appealing to me for that reason alone (especially against our Sons of Horus Justaerin fanboy player).  But that's a very obvious target unit.

 

But what if I stick my Librarian in said unit...  potentially with the Dark Age Relic Void Shield harness?  Does that make them a lot more worth while?  Or should I stick to using Dreadnoughts to fight back?  Or Plasma or Missile Launchers.

[Harvest545]

You might want to consider running a tech marine with missile launcher servitors and a graviton gun in a bunker with ammo dump or something. You can stick the tech marine and friends inside the bunker and just bring a 6 man marauder squad with a missile launcher to kill infantry and dreadnoughts from safety.

 

I'd also consider giving your reaver lord a cyber familiar for 3+ invuln, jump pack and rad grenades and have him hang out with the assault squad. With out the cyber familiar and rad grenades he's just a cost-inefficient praetor. You could also drop the reaver lord and just take a single HQ in the form of a forge lord. similar options and would save a couple hundred points to use on apothecaries and be almost as durable/killy. 

 

The recon squad could be swapped out for sniper vets who cost about the same for a full squad but can rapid fire and take 2 pariah flamers for pseudo-rending torrent templates and decent over watch. And i believe sniper applies to frag grenades they throw to so they effectively have a built in 8" grenade launcher. Also adding a Vigilator consul to the squad if you don't drop the reaver lord effectively gives them stealth and the sabotage attacks they get could do something when hitting rear armor on dreads as well with S 5 vs rear AV 10.

 

And if your taking infantry exclusively without transports you should probably consider the (T+1, S+1) rule and add apothecaries to as many squads as possible to help with survivability and your powerfist guys can punch dreads to death with S 10 power fist.

[orz]

Well, I definitely know Black Shields aren't for me because of this. 

 

I do wonder something else though.  For a Heavy Support Squad - Missiles, Lascannon, and Plasma - what is the general consensus there?

 

My local Meta is Dreadnoughts up the wazoo, and a lot of Terminators as well.  So Lascannon is definitely appealing to me for that reason alone (especially against our Sons of Horus Justaerin fanboy player).  But that's a very obvious target unit.

 

But what if I stick my Librarian in said unit...  potentially with the Dark Age Relic Void Shield harness?  Does that make them a lot more worth while?  Or should I stick to using Dreadnoughts to fight back?  Or Plasma or Missile Launchers.

 

Eh, I think you've discovered that un-optimized lists in a competitive meta aren't for you. :)

 

For heavy support squads, I'd rate Lascannons and Volkite Culverins Tier 1, Missile Launchers Tier 2 (they're cheap!), and honorable mention to Heavy Flamers and Heavy Bolters which can be good with the right legion specific rules. Wouldn't bother with any of the other options.

 

A librarian with the void harness could help, or a Master of Signals with the same. MoS gives them +1 BS, too.

 

But ultimately I don't think Blackshields are meant to be a top-tier competitive army, they're more something you can make a cool story around. If you're not locked into them for your league, why not try a legion with rules that better suit the models & weapon options you have on hand?

[Dulahan]

Thanks again!

Also, another thought for the future...

No matter what I make, it's doubtful I'll have a Primarch.  Black shield, Loyalist Thousand Sons, Shattered Legion... not sure, but all not gonna have a Primarch!  So the question I have now:

In lists that are almost certain to include a Primarch, how viable is taking a Knight as my Lord of War going to be as a means to balance that out?  Because Knights are freaking awesome looking.