Battybattybats Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 So the Agents codex is available to order and reports are already coming in about contents that could be a big deal for Mechanicus armies.Enginseers as Cult-Mech HQ choices, servitors as troops, Imperial Navy Valkyries, Astropaths and Primaris Psykers... there could be a lot of potential from this.I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread discussing how this will impact peoples Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus lists, tactics etcetera. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Have any actual rules been released? I'm curious if the servitors are like kataphrons or more like a tech marine's retinue. I also wonder if this would let us run an enginseer in place of a dominus if you have both books (i.e. if the faction is the same it'd be like a new unit introduced in a supplement so we could use it in a cad) or if it has to be run as a separate detachment with just the units in the book. I want info! Also how factions from the book relate of each other - is it normal battle brothers, or do they count as one faction when fielded together? It'd be sweet to be able to use this to get transports or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4589330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I for one, welcome our new enginseer overlords. Basically, I would use this as an alternative HQ for allied and warlord abilities, And use him in a nest of neutron laser onagers to provide some limited spitfire to my units so the neutron lasers are not so much overkill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4589351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicHat Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I don't remember the full rules and more importantly, the point costs from Astra Militarum. Nevertheless, I welcome our new Machinelords. Power of the Machine spirit is very welcome to Onagers, and depending on cost, HB servitors might be useful to me. Having cheap access to Astropaths and Primaris Psykers are just the cherry on top. Will be interesting to see if Ordo Xeno keeps old Rad Grenades, for that -2 T bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4589459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I for one, welcome our new enginseer overlords. Basically, I would use this as an alternative HQ for allied and warlord abilities, And use him in a nest of neutron laser onagers to provide some limited spitfire to my units so the neutron lasers are not so much overkill. This is why I want the rules - Astra Militarum Enginseers can only use this on vehicles from Astra Militarum. So will C:IA enginseers be able to do this for Skitarii vehicles? We don't have any Cult Mech vehicles it could work on, but the faction rules in the book are critical here. It seems most likely that it'll either work on C:IA vehicles or Cult Mech vehicles, so I'm hesitant to start getting my hopes up for PotMS for our stuff (even though it would be extremely nice!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4589844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Interesting. Gonna have to wait for more spoilers though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4590223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 IF he gets to be usefull for my Dunecrawlers he will walk along my Skitarii very often I think. And to be honest: I doubt his rule can only be used by AM, the whole purpose of the Imperial Agents book is to provide those units to all of the imperial factions, isn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4590299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I'm hearing DT Land Raiders for everyone. Haven't read confirmation on that, though. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4590669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echelon Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I don't have any of te mechanicus units just yet but I do plan on eventually getting a small group of the 1950s battle bots to supplement my Baonial detachment of Imperial Knights. As for this book I am super excited! It will allow me to use two sources and be able to field a large variety of allies for my Knights. I know the topic doesn't include imperial knights right now, but I no one minds I would love to include them in the discussion. Finding people to discuss Knights in a positive and constructive way is difficult. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4590851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I think the transports will only be for acolytes and sisters, not for everyone else... blue bed again!! But, hey, we have some actual Combined arms attachments again with some neat rules, and we can include some deathwatch or grey knights for some CCW punch and psycher stuff. We can technically have two warlords now, and we can take a dreadknight. Plus... Can you guys say exorcists?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I don't like the idea of a mishmash AdMech army, which is probably my largest issue with the IA codex. Don't get me wrong, I see the value from a purely competitive/listbuilding perspective, but having lines of organ-missile tanks side-by-side with spider robots is just too much of a visual shift for me to enjoy. As for Enginseers, I can't imagine why we would get excited over this. They're barely passable in IG, and we get the Techpriest Dominus who can do everything they can and far better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Well, we do have one spoiler so far... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm just wondering if they were given more than one wound for this new imperial agents thing. IT would be nice, but not too necissary... But hey, at least we have cheaper units to buff canticles with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Since the Enginseer is of the Cult Mechanicus faction, then it can be taken instead of the Dominus as a cheap compulsory HQ, right? The latter is better in (just about) all respects, but it's good to have options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Since the Enginseer is of the Cult Mechanicus faction, then it can be taken instead of the Dominus as a cheap compulsory HQ, right? The latter is better in (just about) all respects, but it's good to have options. ...plus another option for the Elite slot, since so many folks sneer at the two current choices for that slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 So, I have got the Codex since yesterday. Lemme break your hopes right now: 1.) Yes, the Engine-Seer is faction: Cult Mechanicus, as are his Servitors. So rejoice, we just got another cheap, 40 points HQ choice! However! His special ability only grants ASTRA MILITARUM vehicles Power Of The Machine Spirit. So in a Cult Mechanicus/Ad Mech army he is virtually useless (except for his mediocre ability to repair vehicles). I would rather invest the points into a Dominus, who always repairs on a 2+ (and can also heal allies on a 2+, which the Engine- Seer can't). 2.) I hope to god that I have missed something but: The Valkyrie is its own faction: Aeronautica Imperialis. This means that if you take that Valkyrie, it will be a "battlebrother" and thus you can't start in it (thank you FAQ ._.). The thing is, that makes the Aeronautica Imperialis Valkyrie utterly useless! Literally no other faction out there can use it! They all would have to ally it in, wait till turn 2 for it to arrive, drop it down into hover-mode and THEN embark their models upon the Valkyrie. And no, there is no special formation/bonus/rule that allows it to be taken as a dedicated transport by any Imperial army. It just perplexes me why GW would EVER do this! Why would they release a new "mini-faction" with just the Valkyrie and the Officer of the Fleet, when no one can actually use the Valkyrie! I hope a future FAQ will clear this up. Otherwise the Aeronautica Imperialis will be utterly useless. 3.) Now for the good part: Ad Mech has literally no own defence in the Psychic Phase. Even Dark Eldar have an artefact that gives them Adamantine Will. So until now the only choice we had was either go for the allied detachment with some librarian + stuff or the Culexus Assassin. But NOW! Now we can just take Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Let me elaborate: You may now take the Psykana Division, consisting of 1 mandatory HQ choice (either 1x Primaris Psyker or 1x Astropath) and optional 1-3 elite slots (1-3 Squads of Wyrdvane Psykers). Why is this good news? Well, because you can now get really cheap Warp Charges and Psykers! If you take this detachment, you can take the Astropath. He is ML1 and only 25 points. But for 25 points more he gets ML2! So he is the cheapest ML2 Psyker in the game. However, he may only generate his powers from Divination or Telepathy (both powers are stuff that we want anyway, so no big deal). The same is true for the Primaris Psyker, only that he has moderately better stats and is 50 points base. So he'll be 75 points for a ML2 Psyker but can generate his powers from Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy and Telekinesis. As for the Wyrdvane Psykers: They are a Brotherhood of Psykers and always ML1, consisting of 5-10 models and generate their powers from the same pool as the Primaris Psyker. The clue of the Psykana Division: If the Primaris OR Astropath is within 12" of 5 or more Wyrdvane Psykers, he channels powers on a 3+! Do the math: You only need a single Astropath/Primaris Psyker to fulfull the formation. So for as little as 50 points you get 2 Warp Charges (Astropath ML2). You could spam this into oblivion and also take some Wyrdvane Psykers (which are only 60 points per 5 guys) to channel your powers more easily. Since the Astropath/Primaris Psyker are independet characters, you can just let join them whatever squad you like and thus get some relatively cheap psychic defence for that squad as well as some psychic powers on top! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hm, since the detachment rule is to give them canticles, that probably means the units themselves don't have it (although the BA demi company shows that's not a guarantee). If so then you would have to take this detachment to boost canticles, not fit them into a battle congregation. Seems like they really didn't know what to do with this book. Edit: the allied Psykers could be useful if you don't have points or the inclination for a librarius conclave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 So, I have got the Codex since yesterday. Lemme break your hopes right now: 1.) Yes, the Engine-Seer is faction: Cult Mechanicus, as are his Servitors. So rejoice, we just got another cheap, 40 points HQ choice! However! His special ability only grants ASTRA MILITARUM vehicles Power Of The Machine Spirit. So in a Cult Mechanicus/Ad Mech army he is virtually useless (except for his mediocre ability to repair vehicles). I would rather invest the points into a Dominus, who always repairs on a 2+ (and can also heal allies on a 2+, which the Engine- Seer can't). Mother Board ing WHAT?! The writers had one bloody page, one SINGLE page to edit for this guy, to change two words and add two more and they ed it up?! What's the point of bringing this er then? does he have 2 wounds at least? does his servitors do anything fun? Can he at least take relics?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Mother Board WHAT?! The writers had one bloody page, one SINGLE page to edit for this guy, to change two words and add two more and they ed it up?! What's the point of bringing this er then? does he have 2 wounds at least? Same for the Valkyrie. Just give it a special rule like "Up to 2 Valkyries from this detachment may be taken as a dedicated transport by any infantry unit belonging to the Imperial Faction [insert restrictions here]". But to be honest, I never had my hopes up for this book. We are talking about a book that harbours all the small factions which GW already gives little to no love anyway. So expecting this to be a big power up for them was unrealistic from the start. I have a simple flowchart: Is the new book Space Marines or Eldar? Yes: It's awesome. No: It's garbage. The book actually is quite fluffy and allows for pretty fluffy mini-armies like Inquisition + Grey Knights/Sororitas/Deathwatch etc. However, I have to agree that the book could have been much better with just a few simple sentences added/changed. They even included the Legion of the Damned instead of the Militarum Tempestus! Poor Scions. But since we aren't Space Marines, we apparently don't deserve nice things. Especially since there are mostly old(er) armies in that book... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Mother Board WHAT?! The writers had one bloody page, one SINGLE page to edit for this guy, to change two words and add two more and they ed it up?! What's the point of bringing this er then? does he have 2 wounds at least? Same for the Valkyrie. Just give it a special rule like "Up to 2 Valkyries from this detachment may be taken as a dedicated transport by any infantry unit belonging to the Imperial Faction [insert restrictions here]". But to be honest, I never had my hopes up for this book. We are talking about a book that harbours all the small factions which GW already gives little to no love anyway. So expecting this to be a big power up for them was unrealistic from the start. I have a simple flowchart: Is the new book Space Marines or Eldar? Yes: It's awesome. No: It's garbage. The book actually is quite fluffy and allows for pretty fluffy mini-armies like Inquisition + Grey Knights/Sororitas/Deathwatch etc. However, I have to agree that the book could have been much better with just a few simple sentences added/changed. They even included the Legion of the Damned instead of the Militarum Tempestus! Poor Scions. But since we aren't Space Marines, we apparently don't deserve nice things. Especially since there are mostly old(er) armies in that book... We can only hope for an FAQ to fix some stuff, but my emperor this is disappointing. I may pick it up for some death watch stuff, but they failed with the two things that would have been so damn easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 The Enginseer being only able to repair guard vehicles is, beyond pure insanity. IMO a bigger miss than the AI Valkyrie transport issues... "Hey here is a unique way to use this model... But you can only make him useful as before... And not even with anything from his own book lol!" Just think... We could have had an Onager squad with the AA one using machine spirit.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battybattybats Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 On the matter of fluff-based forces, remember the mechanicus still must rely on astropaths for long-range communications. I painted up an astropath I mechanicus red with the astropath green on sleeve cuffs and down the front of the robe, to show they are dedicated to serving the explorator fleet. As for the Enginseer and imperial navy.... Sigh, I don't know why they did that. I'll still get the book because of all its narrative gaming uses once my bank balance has recovered from recent purchases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 The only thing I can think is that they're trying to set up for 8th edition with this book. Clean up the "sub factions" and provide some unification for disparate "small" armies. Perhaps there will be some allied transport use rules in there or the like. It's hard to say right now what GW's plan is but this book feels either too deliberately toned to a new 40k we're not aware of OR is just terribly poorly written and ill-conceived. In either case, I shudder to think what AdMech lists are gonna look like after this patchwork monstrosity releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I'd bet the enginseer is a case of copy paste without noticing, since he's originally from astra militarum but that legitimately makes zero sense outside of it. Are the servitors like a tech marine's, or something else? Have rules for those come out? This still could be useful as an Allied Detachment just to provide cannon fodder or boost canticles, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4594919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I do have to agree with MoGuy though, about the psychic support. That said, we could already just take a LIbrarius Conclave or something if we wanted that and we'd get decent melee fighters are better disciplines (Angels of Death expanded Space Marine disciplines) in the bargain. I realize that the Astropath and friends are cheaper, so I suppose there's that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328658-agents-of-the-imperium-and-the-mechanicus/#findComment-4595147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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