New Campaign Including Ad Mech

[Castellan Cato]

I've been thinking about Cael's special canticles, and I think we're majorly underestimating them. From the WD battle report, it sounded like you could activate his and a standard one on a single turn.

 

In that case you've got two turns of a super buffed army. Stealth/shrouded + increased BS and then next turn re-roll to hit + 4++. This seems incredible....

[Mitchverr]

I've been thinking about Cael's special canticles, and I think we're majorly underestimating them. From the WD battle report, it sounded like you could activate his and a standard one on a single turn.

 

In that case you've got two turns of a super buffed army. Stealth/shrouded + increased BS and then next turn re-roll to hit + 4++. This seems incredible....

 

We are admech players, we look at the worst case scenario then throw servitors at the problem till it goes away, we dont expect insanely OP OTT, what are we, marines? :D

 

If you can use 2 at once, war convocation got even more silly, 2+ cover save BS10 skitarii supported by at worst BS6 rest of army (7 for the knight). Turn 1 alpha strike eat your heart out.

[JeffTibbetts]

These new Canticles and the way they stack, especially with Doctrina Imperatives have me thinking...

 

I have to say, there's something extremely fluffy about the troops coordinating the most efficient gunline imaginable. Think individual Skitarii targeting individual enemy targets with one-shot one-kill precision, so they all go down in a perfectly synchronized symphony of destruction. Remember the opening ceremony of the Olympics from a few years back, in China,  where they coordinated everything almost flawlessly using headphones and beats to time the different elements? That, but with augmented cyborg soldiers. 

 

BS6 or higher makes sense in that way. The techpriests excel at absorbing, collating and processing data, and then feeding it out to their tools in the field. I'm getting all giddy thinking about the raw coolness of that. What a unique army. It's not intelligence. It's not even orders. It's data -- and it's a beautiful thing. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

Does anybody know whether Alphas can take the new reics or just CM HQs?

[fedratsailor]

Post 216 this thread, says any characters able to take relics.  i would say skitarii in the same army as Cawl can.

[Tyriks]

 

I'm super exited for the Memento-Mortispex!  I want to pop that on a Dominos in a Holy Requisitioner, give all the Kataphrons the Torsion Cannon and just kill everything!  That relic will solve most problems the Torsion Cannon has... Give it armor bane and it suddenly is MUCH more dangerous to vehicles, same with flesh bane/MCs (number of shots is still a problem but with more reliable wounding/pens it'll help a lot) or give them skyfire and pick on the typically not that tough stuff flying around... Could be useful!

 

I didn't think tank hunter gave you 'armourbane...it just lets you reroll your pen roll. Still not a bad thing to have on a S8 weapon by any means, but you still need 5/6s to go get glances on av13/14. 

 

only 3 shots from the unit is still not amazing though they will tear through lighter armour with the gravitonic distortion rule (especially if dropping an upped BS canticle)

 

Also remember you have to pay the 200 point cawl tax just to unlock the relic, and then pay for the dominus...so that's 300+ points in hq before you've even bought the relic.

 

Still.... grand if you were gonna include those guys anyway

 

Well Cawl can go in the Requisitioner instead of the Dominus.  And yeah I read the rules in a hurry while getting ready for work so I messed that up on armourbane, not as awesome as I was thinking. Might add a little more use to the torsion cannon, but not as good as I thought, thanks for pointing that out!

[Tiger9gamer]

 

 

I'm super exited for the Memento-Mortispex!  I want to pop that on a Dominos in a Holy Requisitioner, give all the Kataphrons the Torsion Cannon and just kill everything!  That relic will solve most problems the Torsion Cannon has... Give it armor bane and it suddenly is MUCH more dangerous to vehicles, same with flesh bane/MCs (number of shots is still a problem but with more reliable wounding/pens it'll help a lot) or give them skyfire and pick on the typically not that tough stuff flying around... Could be useful!

 

I didn't think tank hunter gave you 'armourbane...it just lets you reroll your pen roll. Still not a bad thing to have on a S8 weapon by any means, but you still need 5/6s to go get glances on av13/14. 

 

only 3 shots from the unit is still not amazing though they will tear through lighter armour with the gravitonic distortion rule (especially if dropping an upped BS canticle)

 

Also remember you have to pay the 200 point cawl tax just to unlock the relic, and then pay for the dominus...so that's 300+ points in hq before you've even bought the relic.

 

Still.... grand if you were gonna include those guys anyway

 

Well Cawl can go in the Requisitioner instead of the Dominus.  And yeah I read the rules in a hurry while getting ready for work so I messed that up on armourbane, not as awesome as I was thinking. Might add a little more use to the torsion cannon, but not as good as I thought, thanks for pointing that out!

 

you know, maybe the trans-arquebus thing just got a lot more awesome with this relic too. with this thing it could pull off all kinds of hurt, and every single role helps quite a bit with it's goal.

[Sawtooth]

Just to clarify, since I often misread the rules. Cawl can replace any Dominus in any formations. And Cawl grants access to the new arcana to the army he is in. So could I take a War Convocation, and an additional formation like a Holy Requisitioner with Cawl instead of a Dominus, and still give the Convocation access to the arcana for free? If yes, would Cawl and his formation count for canticles in the War Convocation? Would the War Convocation count its units and be affected by Cawl's canticles?

Hopefully none of that is stupidly obvious, as I said I often misread the rules. I'm like a rules anti-lawyer.

[Tyriks]

 

 

 

I'm super exited for the Memento-Mortispex!  I want to pop that on a Dominos in a Holy Requisitioner, give all the Kataphrons the Torsion Cannon and just kill everything!  That relic will solve most problems the Torsion Cannon has... Give it armor bane and it suddenly is MUCH more dangerous to vehicles, same with flesh bane/MCs (number of shots is still a problem but with more reliable wounding/pens it'll help a lot) or give them skyfire and pick on the typically not that tough stuff flying around... Could be useful!

 

I didn't think tank hunter gave you 'armourbane...it just lets you reroll your pen roll. Still not a bad thing to have on a S8 weapon by any means, but you still need 5/6s to go get glances on av13/14. 

 

only 3 shots from the unit is still not amazing though they will tear through lighter armour with the gravitonic distortion rule (especially if dropping an upped BS canticle)

 

Also remember you have to pay the 200 point cawl tax just to unlock the relic, and then pay for the dominus...so that's 300+ points in hq before you've even bought the relic.

 

Still.... grand if you were gonna include those guys anyway

 

Well Cawl can go in the Requisitioner instead of the Dominus.  And yeah I read the rules in a hurry while getting ready for work so I messed that up on armourbane, not as awesome as I was thinking. Might add a little more use to the torsion cannon, but not as good as I thought, thanks for pointing that out!

 

you know, maybe the trans-arquebus thing just got a lot more awesome with this relic too. with this thing it could pull off all kinds of hurt, and every single role helps quite a bit with it's goal.

 

Yeah, rerolling the 50% chance to wound would help out a lot!  Still, with the cost of the TA I'd probably save them for a War Convocation.

 

Just to clarify, since I often misread the rules. Cawl can replace any Dominus in any formations. And Cawl grants access to the new arcana to the army he is in. So could I take a War Convocation, and an additional formation like a Holy Requisitioner with Cawl instead of a Dominus, and still give the Convocation access to the arcana for free? If yes, would Cawl and his formation count for canticles in the War Convocation? Would the War Convocation count its units and be affected by Cawl's canticles?

 

Hopefully none of that is stupidly obvious, as I said I often misread the rules. I'm like a rules anti-lawyer.

From what I have seen that would work both for relics and canticles.  Haven't actually laid eyes on the book though so I can't be totally certain.

[DanPesci]

 

 

I'm super exited for the Memento-Mortispex!  I want to pop that on a Dominos in a Holy Requisitioner, give all the Kataphrons the Torsion Cannon and just kill everything!  That relic will solve most problems the Torsion Cannon has... Give it armor bane and it suddenly is MUCH more dangerous to vehicles, same with flesh bane/MCs (number of shots is still a problem but with more reliable wounding/pens it'll help a lot) or give them skyfire and pick on the typically not that tough stuff flying around... Could be useful!

 

I didn't think tank hunter gave you 'armourbane...it just lets you reroll your pen roll. Still not a bad thing to have on a S8 weapon by any means, but you still need 5/6s to go get glances on av13/14. 

 

only 3 shots from the unit is still not amazing though they will tear through lighter armour with the gravitonic distortion rule (especially if dropping an upped BS canticle)

 

Also remember you have to pay the 200 point cawl tax just to unlock the relic, and then pay for the dominus...so that's 300+ points in hq before you've even bought the relic.

 

Still.... grand if you were gonna include those guys anyway

 

Well Cawl can go in the Requisitioner instead of the Dominus.  And yeah I read the rules in a hurry while getting ready for work so I messed that up on armourbane, not as awesome as I was thinking. Might add a little more use to the torsion cannon, but not as good as I thought, thanks for pointing that out!

 

 

Sorry if im misunderstanding you here...but the thing is that Cawls solar atomiser seems to be a relic.

 

Which as far as I can tell (and what I've been told) means that although he unlocks the other new relics for his army, he himself can't actually take any of them.

So you need to have the dominus in the HR formation to get the Memento Mortispex on them (if that's what you were meaning)

[DeStinyFiSh]

Just to clarify, since I often misread the rules. Cawl can replace any Dominus in any formations. And Cawl grants access to the new arcana to the army he is in. So could I take a War Convocation, and an additional formation like a Holy Requisitioner with Cawl instead of a Dominus, and still give the Convocation access to the arcana for free? If yes, would Cawl and his formation count for canticles in the War Convocation? Would the War Convocation count its units and be affected by Cawl's canticles?

 

Hopefully none of that is stupidly obvious, as I said I often misread the rules. I'm like a rules anti-lawyer.

 

For me this is pretty much correct according to the leaks (I don't have the book yet).

Take Cawl either in the WC or in the HR (or Battle Congregation or Dominus Maniple or whatever) and you can use the Relics army wide and Canticles always work for every unit with that rule.

[MoGuy]

The Book doesn't talk about the War Convocation. But since Carl (love that nickname!) can effectively replace a Dominus it should be legal to include him in the WC.

 

Any new insights on how we can best use the Archmagos? I'll try and advance him up the field with a full squad of Venguards w/ Omnispex and either Arc Rifles or Plasma. That way Carl has at least a decent chance to get close enough to the enemy's vehicles to let them feel his haywire-y love. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

Any new insights on how we can best use the Archmagos? I'll try and advance him up the field with a full squad of Venguards w/ Omnispex and either Arc Rifles or Plasma. That way Carl has at least a decent chance to get close enough to the enemy's vehicles to let them feel his haywire-y love. 

 

Same here.

 

I think in the Cohort Cybernetica the normal Tech Priest with his 2+ repair is better than that big guy.

Holy Requisitioner seems to be a good option as well, but he is then kind of alone and might find himself in a CC he does not want. Dont know...

[Mitchverr]

For cybernetica, I am still torn, he could handedly tank any shots to protect the robots allowing them to basically sweep up the field and look out sir anything that is instant death, though he cant repair the robots, he does however grant the unit serious numbers of CC attacks so they can cut their way out of swarm units and also could arguably hold his own against any hero he fights so long as they dont carry instant death weapons (the only 2/3 ways my cybernetic unit goes down is from swarm locking them down, poison and instant death, 2 of which cawl can deal with). The unit itself is a great distraction and with him in it, all the more so (thats a unit that will cost you likely 1/3rd to half your points however).

 

 

Holy req, it would let him smash tanks right away but then he is alone and the breachers are not good at CC to back up their leader, its a "does as it says on the tin" unit, no need to explain it.

 

 

Honestly either would work fine in my view, I dont think he has a "single best role", he is capable of being highly diverse and doing pretty much any job you need him to do, though personally i think he is better suited to plonk in with cult units over skitarii myself(especially when you get high numbers for the cants to get really good so he can protect those useful grav cannon squad that tends to be primary targeted i find).

[MoGuy]

 

 

I think in the Cohort Cybernetica the normal Tech Priest with his 2+ repair is better than that big guy.

 

Yeah and it would be just too many points in one unit.

 

 

 

Holy Requisitioner seems to be a good option as well, but he is then kind of alone and might find himself in a CC he does not want. Dont know...

 

In what CC doesn't he want to be anyway? D weapons, Force Weapons and loads of High Strenght AP2 attacks is stuff that can actually harm him. But against your normal CC units like Thunderwolves, Deathcompany, Assault Marines etc. he would probably even win. He has 4 (3 base + 1 for 2 CC weapons) attacks that are S6 AP2 with WS5. So he hits on 3s and wounds most units on 2s. Plus his 2D6 Ini 10 attacks. 

 

And even if he doesn't cut the enemy down, then he will probably tarpit them until he eventually does. Most effective close combat units are expensive so it's not even that bad if our 200 points dude is stuck in combat since he most likely will tie up as many points as he costs.

 

One question that comes to mind regarding the relics: If we take Cawl, does that mean that e.g. a Ruststalker Princeps may take TWO relics? One from the Skitarii Relics and another one from the Arcana Mechanicum? Since he doesn't take the same relic two times it should be legal, right? Because it would be hilarious to give them the Pater Radium and the Autopurger. Or the same on a Vanguard Alpha with his -1T...!

[fedratsailor]

FAQ's from the summer stated that characters could only take 1 relic.

[Mitchverr]

What are peoples thoughts of in a war convocation sticking Cawl into a unit of rusties and just pushing forwards with them?

[JeffTibbetts]

I actually like that idea, Mitchverr. It was brought up earlier because he can tank for them. Still missing a couple turns of action but at least they'd arrive mostly intact, I think. 

[MoGuy]

I would actually give Stalkers + Cawl a shot outside of the War Convo too. The problem the Sicarians have was never that they don't deliver once they reach CC but rather that they die on their way there. Take an allied detachment with Cawl plus a Skitarii Maniple. That way the Stalkers still get to scout so they could actually see CC by turn 2. 

 

Another option would be to just take Celestine. She is almost equally as tanky as Cawl and isn't slowing down the Ruststalkers since she can use her jumppack to just move 9" with them. That also opens up the options to give the Princeps a relic like the Blade Of The Worthy or the Castigator. Maybe she might be even better with the Infiltrators since she can give them Furious Charge . The Princeps could take the Blade Of The Worthy so that the squad could still be effective against TEQ.

[Sawtooth]

The Memento-Mortispex seems to be the big winner among the Arcana he provides to the army. I'm curious what unit my fellow Magos think will be the best place for it. I may have tunnel vision because of the amount of fliers and skimmers in my area, but I like being able to provide really potent skyfire from something other than an Icarus Array. Of course that's just one benefit and the flexibility of this Arcana opens up a lot of possibilities.

[BassWave]

Well between Cawl's canticles and the memento mortispex, torsion breachers are actually scary. The problem they had was their unreliability. Cawl fixes their bs while memento improves their chance to wound MCs/vehicles.

 

Cawl might also be the best way to move a large horde of e-priests up the board. Even though he's being wounded at majority toughness 3, it's very difficult to get wounds to stick to him. Question is, do you put him with a block of fulgurites or corpuscarii?

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

In what CC doesn't he want to be anyway? D weapons, Force Weapons and loads of High Strenght AP2 attacks is stuff that can actually harm him. But against your normal CC units like Thunderwolves, Deathcompany, Assault Marines etc. he would probably even win. He has 4 (3 base + 1 for 2 CC weapons) attacks that are S6 AP2 with WS5. So he hits on 3s and wounds most units on 2s. Plus his 2D6 Ini 10 attacks. 

 

And even if he doesn't cut the enemy down, then he will probably tarpit them until he eventually does. Most effective close combat units are expensive so it's not even that bad if our 200 points dude is stuck in combat since he most likely will tie up as many points as he costs.

 

Well, Cawl is not lost in CC, but I think there is a lot of stuff he wants to avoid, from Tarpits (his bonus attacks are random, so can also be just 2), to force weapons, D weapons and generell CC units. His regeneration is also random, so he might find himself getting only 1 wound back.

As I said, I am not sure, maybe he is good in the holy requisitioner, but he might also be lost depending on the enemys army (and then you can not use his canticles anymore).

 

What are peoples thoughts of in a war convocation sticking Cawl into a unit of rusties and just pushing forwards with them?

 

Well... I never played the Convocation, so I don't know, but has anyone thought about sticking a Dominus to Sicarians? The exact same thing (not as good as a tank as Carl, but still very good), but I have never seen a list or a batle report where someone attached a Dominus to them. I think it is not realy worth it.

 

Cawl might also be the best way to move a large horde of e-priests up the board. Even though he's being wounded at majority toughness 3, it's very difficult to get wounds to stick to him. Question is, do you put him with a block of fulgurites or corpuscarii?

 

Same here. There was the option to place a tank outfront our more fragile CC units since CM has been released, and I never heard of any big success doing so. Only because Carl is tankier than the Dominus I don't see any change here...

[Mitchverr]

Same here. There was the option to place a tank outfront our more fragile CC units since CM has been released, and I never heard of any big success doing so. Only because Carl is tankier than the Dominus I don't see any change here...

 

 

Actually i have had plenty of success in using the dominus to do it with e-priests but have only played the armies together in a couple apoc games (dont like to war con my poor buddies and aint had chance to tourny), the main issue i have had is my group wisened up to how lethal they are if they get into combat and primary target the dominus whom usually is the warlord of the army list (2 birds 1 stone), the dominus is tanky, but unless you roll eternal warrior he can be 1 shot by alot of kit and alot of AP 2 will be aimed at him aswell, thats where cawl comes in much more handly with his reroll FNP and no 1 shot from S10 weapons.

 

Being more tanky gives a much higher % chance of the tactics usability in my view, with my dominus doing it i had about a 50/50 chance of it working or going horribly wrong, Cawl i would argue moves it up to a 80% chance of going well.

[MajorNese]

Just getting into this discussion, so a few ideas...

 

As for the Grand Convocation, it's definitively a nice to have. Not exactly powerful, but an easy way to combine the two mini-dexes. Might be useful.

 

As for Carl, maybe he won't singlehandedly wipe out the board. He needs some kind of delivery system to get where he needs to be, but there are options, especially as an IC. Outflank with infiltrators (tank the 1st round for them, or detach those immediately), attach to regular skitarii detachment unit (Scout), or boldly walk where only robots walked before (cohort cybernetica). Hell, as he can replace any imperial HQ (if I understood correctly), just making him a marine HQ would do the trick, getting around the ally-transport FAQ as he's the detachment leader.

 

Though my most interesting application would be a techpriest triumvirate. Two dominii and Carl, to singlehandedly spread the word of the omnissiah. That would be 11W (5W Carl, 2x3W dominii) 2+/5++/5+FnP (plus converter field and rerollable FnP) , who spread wounds across the squad any way they like, and regenerate it at an alarming rate. D3 for Carl, 2x on a 2+ for the dominii. And there are lots of options...2 slots for relics/luminagen pistols, a squad of kataphron to give more firepower, wounds and majority toughness 5, or any other squad happening to be in the same area (vanguard for rad, infiltrators for aura and against tarpit,...) joining temporarily. Pretty much nonsense, but sounds fun...

[Tiger9gamer]

So I played a game with the new Grand covocation using what I had (four onagers, 2 ranger units, 1 vanguard, 1 squad of robots, dominus and grav-cannon unit, and an enginseer) with my usual list of vanguard, and I still have no clue how to really play this, as I had the worst rolling ever seriously, my neutron lasers either scattered everywhere even with BS7 and other times they failed to do anything completely. Arc Rifles proved to be great though.

The IWND thing was pretty good too. I managed to make some saves on my onagers, and the POTMS made me feel powerful with shooting in every direction. I wish I actually hit said targets but the threat they posed was really awesome. I still need the skryerskull precipus though, and I almost think that the re-rolling to pen is much more valuable for my rolling over the choose your own rule idea.

And I also have to say Celestine is MEAN. She just will not die. She literally took on 1,000 points by herself and pretty much won completely. Only my barely alive robots managed to do any lasting damage. I have yet to try cawl, but I think I will continue using this general list idea for the future.