New Campaign Including Ad Mech

[MoGuy]

 

 

(four onagers, 2 ranger units, 1 vanguard, 1 squad of robots, dominus and grav-cannon unit, and an enginseer) 

 

To be fair, that list is mediocre at best. The Ranger units are effectively useless since we got access to Secutarii. One unit of Venguards won't cut it either. The Robots are always good. One unit of Grav-Servos are not that hot since they only hit on 4+. And the Engineseer is just meh.

 

I wish it weren't so but as it is right now I would ALWAYS play Venguard over Rangers. Period.

 

And to be fair, Celestine taking on 1000 Points from your list by her self is not surprising. The only units that can even penetrate her armour are the Robots and Grav Servos. 

 

But hard data is still hard data and we may learn from your contribution. :)

[Battybattybats]

I've got my triumvirate but not the book yet, lovely lovely models, but as skitarii players have come to know there will be quite fragile bits (including on Celestine!) much more than average miniatures.

There's a cool designer video that discusses the designing of the models that's worth a watch. I'd like to see the WIP design sketches by Jes Goodwin for Cawl!

[MoGuy]

Celestine is VERY fragile. She's "shaking" on her scrolls since those are rather long an have to support all the mass from the rest of her model. Transporting her and/or Cawl will be a nightmare and demand a lot of space. They seem to be more vitrine models.

[Tiger9gamer]

(four onagers, 2 ranger units, 1 vanguard, 1 squad of robots, dominus and grav-cannon unit, and an enginseer)

To be fair, that list is mediocre at best. The Ranger units are effectively useless since we got access to Secutarii. One unit of Venguards won't cut it either. The Robots are always good. One unit of Grav-Servos are not that hot since they only hit on 4+. And the Engineseer is just meh.

I wish it weren't so but as it is right now I would ALWAYS play Venguard over Rangers. Period.

And to be fair, Celestine taking on 1000 Points from your list by her self is not surprising. The only units that can even penetrate her armour are the Robots and Grav Servos.

But hard data is still hard data and we may learn from your contribution.

That's not all I had, I took 30 more vanguard and some secutarii. You gotta remember that the grand coconut list requires four troops, and it just so happens that it favors more range units rather than the vanguard as it lacks scout. unless they bull charge towards you they will be out of range more often than not.

Basically it was this:

Grand Coconut list

Dominus w/ USR relic

Enginseer

Kataphron Destroyer

5 Rangers

5 Rangers

6 Vanguard w/ arc rifles, arc pistol and omispex

shooty robots

2 onagers w/ neutron lasers

2 onagers w/ neutron lasers

Skitarii maniple

10 Secutarii w/ omni-spex

10 vanguard w/ arc rifles and omnispex

10 vanguard w/ arc rifles and omnispex

10 vanguard w/ arc rifles and omnispex

as you can see plenty of vanguard, but the grand covocation almost requires rangers to work as a cheap source

[Sawtooth]

Celestine is VERY fragile. She's "shaking" on her scrolls since those are rather long an have to support all the mass from the rest of her model. Transporting her and/or Cawl will be a nightmare and demand a lot of space. They seem to be more vitrine models.

If you accidentally break Celestine will tears repair the model?

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have the book since yesterday and despite the fact that I am a bit disappointed of how little rules there are, I try to see the positiv thing: I have got some (few) new toys.

 

But something that came into my mind: It says you get access to the Relics as soon as Carl is part of your army. And Carl can be used as HQ in every Imperial Army. So I see nothing from stopping me giving the Relics to Marines, Guards or Sisters... or am I missing something?

[MoGuy]

 

 

If you accidentally break Celestine will tears repair the model?

 

The cooling fluids that would leak from my visual receptors lack the blessings of Celestine's tears. So the model will probably be repaired with lots of super glue and/or green stuff. I'll try and fit one of the staves that hold up jetbikes etc. underneath her. That would give her the needed support and stop her from flapping all over the place.

 

 

 

I have the book since yesterday and despite the fact that I am a bit disappointed of how little rules there are

 

Hmm. I think the campaign books' primary function is to move the story of 40K ahead. The rules/formations are just added frosting on the cake. I am actually more disappointed that the Ad Mech didn't actually do all that much on Cadia, even though they had Carl there. We get awesome detailed scenes of the heroics of the Guard/SM/SoB but almost no details as to how the Skitarii fight (and die). 

 

 

 

And Carl can be used as HQ in every Imperial Army. So I see nothing from stopping me giving the Relics to Marines, Guards or Sisters... or am I missing something?

 

You are correct! :D Carl can be used as an HQ in any CAD or allied detachment. So you can just take him and plop hin in a list of Marines, Guard, SoB etc.

[DeStinyFiSh]

And Carl can be used as HQ in every Imperial Army. So I see nothing from stopping me giving the Relics to Marines, Guards or Sisters... or am I missing something?

You are correct! Carl can be used as an HQ in any CAD or allied detachment. So you can just take him and plop hin in a list of Marines, Guard, SoB etc.

Damn it, they can of course not take the Relics Carl makes available... I forgotten that every fraction has the option to take Relics from List X or Y.

For Example: Skitarii Alphas can only take Relics of Mars.

But Carls Relics are on the Arcana Mechanicum list and can therefor only be used by Cult Mech characters... or am I missing something?

Edit: Damn it, even less options with the new book than I initially thought

[Mitchverr]

Please dont tell me thats the case, literally makes them all pointless as you will use like, 2 relics in an army the size of 1850 points in total out of 12 if you can only use them in cult armies(most people dont take a 2nd hq in cult so its how many datasmiths you got). I get not giving to non admech, but skitarii should get access imo simply due to being admech too(and having the ability to field them in numbers.

 

Edit: Just got a look at the admech relics, it states

 

"characters that can normally take a relic (blah blah in conclav caq or grand con) or are in an army that includes Cawl, can select one of the following arcana mechanicum. Only one of each blah blah".

 

Doesnt say you must be cult mech at all, hell, from this i would say it means anyone which kind of takes the fun out of it a little if guard officers can take my dakka lol.

[DanPesci]

Please dont tell me thats the case, literally makes them all pointless as you will use like, 2 relics in an army the size of 1850 points in total out of 12 if you can only use them in cult armies(most people dont take a 2nd hq in cult so its how many datasmiths you got). I get not giving to non admech, but skitarii should get access imo simply due to being admech too(and having the ability to field them in numbers.

 

Edit: Just got a look at the admech relics, it states

 

"characters that can normally take a relic (blah blah in conclav caq or grand con) or are in an army that includes Cawl, can select one of the following arcana mechanicum. Only one of each blah blah".

 

Doesnt say you must be cult mech at all, hell, from this i would say it means anyone which kind of takes the fun out of it a little if guard officers can take my dakka lol.

 

if thats the wording id say it seems like he does unlock his relic list for any army he's in. (Same with celestines wording/relics im guessing??)

 

Would make sense, as the way they seemed to have designed them is so they can be dropped into any imperial army and still give their benefits

[DeStinyFiSh]

But if you look into the Character entrys in the codizes it says "can take a relic from this or that list"... dont have a Codex at hand to check, just realised this morning that for the Skitarii Alpha it says "from the relics of mars list"

[Mitchverr]

But if you look into the Character entrys in the codizes it says "can take a relic from this or that list"... dont have a Codex at hand to check, just realised this morning that for the Skitarii Alpha it says "from the relics of mars list"

 

New book overrides that doesnt it, because they didnt know the book would come at that timeframe from how i understand how this stuff works. The new rule specifically states they can take it meaning that its an exception to the usual relic rule and that they are "character linked relics" over anything. Afterall, if it doesnt work this way, even the cult mech cant use them as they have a different name, they are not cult mech relics.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Both lists are called Arkhana Mechanicum if I am correct, and if CM characters have "can take items from the Arkhana Mechanicum list" in te options they can.

 

New rules > old rules, yes, but a rule for Carl does not override rules for SM Captains or AM Commanders.

[Mitchverr]

Its not Cawls rule though, its the rule for the relics themselves and how they can or cannot be used.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Still, if for example SM characters have the option to take Relics from the SM relic list (whatever it is called). the rule in Fall of Cadia does not override anything here

[Mitchverr]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that 1 unless otheres pipe in, but i was taking it how the daemons do it, they have hellforged artifacts for anyone to use(i say anyone but you get what i mean), then they have the specific "of x god" artifacts from daemonic incursion, iirc they dont have it specifically stated to take both, though i dont own the books and its been a while.

[Tyriks]

SM or anything else CAN take the Arcana Mechanicum if Cawl is in the army.  His rules do say that he unlocks the list for any army he's in.  That does override the unit entries for any HQ that can take relics with the exact same authority as it overrides the Dominus.  The fact that the name is the same for Cult Mech means absolutely nothing.

[Tiger9gamer]

You know, thinking back to my one try as listed above, several of the relics are kinda inferior to the cult mechanicus ones. It's obvious that cawl's are geared to be of use for everybody, but several have no place for the mechanicus even while being in the Grand covocation or after paying the Cawl tax. Hell with the amount of onagers we could bring and with how much it buffs armor pen the Skyerskull may be the best relic for the grand convocation.

[Mitchverr]

You know, thinking back to my one try as listed above, several of the relics are kinda inferior to the cult mechanicus ones. It's obvious that cawl's are geared to be of use for everybody, but several have no place for the mechanicus even while being in the Grand covocation or after paying the Cawl tax. Hell with the amount of onagers we could bring and with how much it buffs armor pen the Skyerskull may be the best relic for the grand convocation.

 

True enough i guess, though some are good for admech i think.

 

Quantum Annihilator for skitarii vanguard range 18 inch d3 assault meshes in well with them.

Memento-Morispex for the rangers works well with the sniper rifles.

Saint Curia's Autopurger for a CC unit or vanguard.

 

The other 3 are however pretty meh for the armies of admech.

 

Perhaps when we get the forgeworld book these will be much more useful in that.

[DeStinyFiSh]

@ Mitchverr:

You have been right. Page 118 clearly says Imperial Armies can take the Relics from Fall of Cadia book instead of the ones listed in their options.

I am happy I was wrong here

Edit:

Ehm... in my book the Scryerskull is only good for scanning objectives, nothing mentioned about AVs for penetration reroll... can someone else check his book please, especially e-books and other languages than english?

[MajorNese]

Ehm... in my book the Scryerskull is only good for scanning objectives, nothing mentioned about AVs for penetration reroll... can someone else check his book please, especially e-books and other languages than english?

There's the regular wargear "scryerskull" for scanning objectives (Carl and dominus have it standard), and the relic "scryerskull perspicatus" (or something like that) for reroll penetration. The latter is mostly just called "scryerskull" because no one cares about the regular one.

[Deffrekka]

Those half shots of the walkers in the new art is just ironstriders... I checked when i got my book :(

[Mitchverr]

So im still unsure on the canticles of the archmagos usability, theres still the other debate of "at same time as omnissiah or instead of", but my 1 is simply reading the specific "these work in exacly the same way", meaning in my mind that the cult mech formation allowing you to reuse a canticle should apply to them.

 

 

Really need to figure this 1 out, im hoping to have a game using it on friday, im tempted just to go with the weaker "instead of" and "no reuse" but its really something that keeps me pondering.

[JeffTibbetts]

Those half shots of the walkers in the new art is just ironstriders... I checked when i got my book

I have to vent a little. I'm usually A ) all for artistic license, B ) glad to see new artwork even if it's not my favorite style and C ) totally down-to-earth when it comes to rumors and whatnot (or at least I think I'm down to earth. In reality I'm probably only slightly less rabid than the average person on BoLS). I really, really thought we were getting new models based on this artwork. I analyzed the heck out of it and decided there was no way those were Ironstriders (no gimp pilot, weird prongs in the groin, general differences). Especially the one in the upper left of the full art. Also, the pill-head bots really didn't look like Sicarians to me, and one of them has a rifle or shotgun-looking thing. I still don't think they look like Sicarians. When the full art came out and I saw the leggy bots were just Ironstriders, I actually got a little upset. That art is just sort of awful. I think Cawl looks great, but the artist clearly didn't have much for reference material besides that, and the whole rest of the picture is just all kinds of off. Maybe they don't know the lore well or something, but seriously with the new GW "if it's in the art, it's in the game" policy I really read way too much into what ended up being massive amounts of license or just someone being too busy to bother messing with the background much.

Okay, back to my normal, mostly-positive outlook. Thanks for bearing with me.

[Odds.043]

Wow... the ironstriders in that artwork are just ghastly... the pill headed bots though, the ones who's armaments I can see, seem to both have some kind of sniper rifle looking gun... I would speculate these might be something new coming in a future admech release that will also include cawl, but with how terrible the ironstriders look (the back one literally has arms... arms! Not just gimpy T-Rex arms, full on Tau mech suit arms!) They could be space marines for all I can tell!

 

Edit: I would be willing to beleive the thing in the back might be a new robot... the top may vaguely resemble an ironstrider, but it has so many fundamental differences compared to the one in the front just behind cawl. Surely the artist would have some consistency within their own painting if they were the same right? (It was mentioned before new models have been spoiled by the artwork before, they were mostly tyranids, so I do still hold some hope, but then again, maybe the artist just thought dragoons had taster Lance arms with a balistarii looking head instead of an actual rider with a lance)