Jackalwolf Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Hey there fellas, I've been noticing lately that GW and FW have been progressively increasing the size of their marines, up to the point that they're starting to become well proportioned. The FW Character Series and event only miniatures seem to have gone true scale for a while already. On normal marines, particularly the MKIII from Prospero, I find that if you add a bit of greenstuff between the legs and torso to give them more abs (since that's the one aspect I feel they lack the most for proportion) and a smaller head, they're pretty much bang on proportioned other than maybe the hands being a bit too big. What are your thoughts guys? EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not referring to their comparative size to other miniatures but their body proportions (sort of what do they look like if you overlay them on the Vitruvian man). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Yes and no. I think the more upright poses GW have been doing lately appear to be better proportioned compared to the traditional "crouched" poses but I think that's just about stance and it's an illusion rather than actual proportion changes. That being said, you are correct about the FW character series, they are bigger. And the new 40K Ahriman looks extremely tall too. Space Marines vary in size just like normal people though so I don't think it will ever become a problem. It is kinda nice for your heroes to tower over their comrades. I really don't see GW ever doing proper "true" scale as their models won't look right. The Lord of the Rings miniatures for example are propotionally accurate, except for the heads and hands which have to be enlarged or they just don't look correct at that scale. The same would apply to models in 40K. In the grim darkness of the far future, there will always be bananna-handed, bobble-head men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 If I may, here's a reference comparison between a BoP space marine and the Vitrubian man: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah128/Grieux/Vitrubian%20Marine_zps2mzyzmvr.jpg[/url Seems pretty bang on excepting the tibia and perone being comparatively shorter, but I can get by since different gravities promote different lengths of leg in theory so :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheBlazes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The scale is definitely improving... slowly. The deathwatch miniatures look pretty great for example. A problem previously was that marines didn't look a lot bigger than 'normal humans'- as much an issue with the Imperial Guard models as anything else. If you put marines next to historical miniatures, say, that makes them look a lot more hulking! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Captain Centos was the 'brow-raising miniature that signalled a change in the line to more leggy marines which match the sketches in the Space Marine codex, for me at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 FW 30k Marines have been a lot closer to true scale for quite some time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I wouldnt call it 'true scale' in how many people on here consider it, using Terminators as Marines all upsized...which I dont like. I think its more just a gradual proportion improvement? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I use Veteran sergeant/Heinrich technique to extend the legs using plasticard. It's a chore so I'll probably convert a few masters and make mold for them. The addition of 3-4mm in height on regular marines and 2-3mm on Terminators fixes all the scaling issues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I use Veteran sergeant/Heinrich technique to extend the legs using plasticard. It's a chore so I'll probably convert a few masters and make mold for them. The addition of 3-4mm in height on regular marines and 2-3mm on Terminators fixes all the scaling issues. This is probably my favorite look, but as you say, extending the legs was such a chore that I shifted to the 'art scale' terminator conversion that's become a lot easier with the tartaros and cataphractii legs. I've grown on the added bulk and the way it seems to mimic the art of the HH books. Not for everyone, but works for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I'm definitely a fan of the apologist/doghouse/Molotov style, but I'm such a treadhead the lack of vehicles kills it for me. The normal vehicles already grind my gear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 After thinking about it for a while, I don't think Marines are meant to comform to regular human proportions. They're always described as overly broad (particularly in the face) with enlarged shoulders giving them no neck. They are meant to be a little off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 After thinking about it for a while, I don't think Marines are meant to comform to regular human proportions. They're always described as overly broad (particularly in the face) with enlarged shoulders giving them no neck. They are meant to be a little off. Have you seen some Rugby or NFL players? ;p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 After thinking about it for a while, I don't think Marines are meant to comform to regular human proportions. They're always described as overly broad (particularly in the face) with enlarged shoulders giving them no neck. They are meant to be a little off. Have you seen some Rugby or NFL players? ;p Lol. Yes I have, some true Thunder Warriors there. Rugby players in particular are probably very good to base face sculpts on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I always thought their torsos were too short Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4599986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I use Veteran sergeant/Heinrich technique to extend the legs using plasticard. It's a chore so I'll probably convert a few masters and make mold for them. The addition of 3-4mm in height on regular marines and 2-3mm on Terminators fixes all the scaling issues.This is probably my favorite look, but as you say, extending the legs was such a chore that I shifted to the 'art scale' terminator conversion that's become a lot easier with the tartaros and cataphractii legs. I've grown on the added bulk and the way it seems to mimic the art of the HH books. Not for everyone, but works for me. What is this method? It sounds interesting if it matches the Neil Roberts covers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I always thought their torsos were too short Yup. People mistakenly believe it's the legs that need lengthening when it's the torso that's the problem. For my BCK Scaling™ I lengthen the torso and thicken the upper legs. http://i.imgur.com/v8JToIv.jpg A few mm of extra length in the torso and larger legs make a difference, eh? Here's a better look at how I trim down the marine torso and use plastic tubing cut to fit the shape of the torso as an extender. http://i.imgur.com/3LbGQ40.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Artscaling always has elements of 'David's Hands and Genitals'. Your perspective determines the accuracy of the sculpture. BCK's method is closer to the true anatomy of abnormally proportioned human (the head should fit in the ribs, is the rule IIRC). If you lack the requisite GS skills though, extending just the legs at the thighs and and shins brings it closer in line with the Kopinski artwork that defined space marines for years, with lankier leg proportions and smaller heads. For a heroic scale game, height is your immediate pass for scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 I agree with the torso take. I've noticed that something as simple as adding 1 or 2 mm by putting greenstuff in the joint between the legs and the torso already helps heaps and literally anybody can do that conversion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I feel like even these look much better proportioned http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy123/wareagle411/4AA4D463-B097-4A04-AE46-AB674A1BC0E4_zpsjbktj0lb.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audemus Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I'll post this image over here as it will give some showing of scale in size, if not proportion, between the new Legio Custodes and other 'standard' human models. Read: The Custodes are freaking monstrous. I wish I had some 30k marines to put into the size comparison but the only ones I have on hand are old metal ones which aren't exactly relevant now. http://i.imgur.com/UJNtBr3.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Custodes are taller than cataphractii. My leg extensions fix the scale issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 And if one wanted to extend/enlarge the BAC cataphractii to make them closer to true scale, including the praetor model, what should one do? Green stuff in the waist? Card as leg extensions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I use two pieces of 1.5mm evergreen plain sheets, stack on top of one another. Using full 3mm thickness burns through knife s so fast. Cut the cataphractii shin at the middle 'band' of armor in the back and add your sheets to the waist (you might need some GS gap filling. Brother Heinrich's blood angels log had some great images you can use as a reference. I'd link them but my phone isn't cooperating :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Huh, perspective, or are the SA large than the other FW humans? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audemus Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Huh, perspective, or are the SA large than the other FW humans? I'll do a more comprehensive scale picture when I get home, I think it's the bulk of the SA armor. I always chuckle at how thin Elysians and that Commissar are, so I'll give some more pose accurate pics. EDIT: Alright, this is as comprehensive as I was able to get it, I wish I had some new marines to put into the line up but unfortunately I do not as I don't ever play Space Marines! http://i.imgur.com/nm8SwxB.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328993-marines-becoming-true-scale/#findComment-4600890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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