Imperial Guard tactics

[Brother Talarian]

Hey guys, had a game today, made me realize something; what are General IG tactics? I find myself staying stationary most of the game, shooting, and that's about it.

 

I would like to "use" and see my infantry I just painted on the table, yet they seem to stay in a chimera all game. Am I playing this wrong?

 

What type of lists are there that don't seem to be as much as a static gunline?

 

I was thinking of adding some MT to add some flavour and mobility. Also like the appeal of mechanized list, though that leads me back to the "they seem to only stick around in the chimeras".

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance comrades.

[Shamansky]

Hello. 

Take more Sentinels, Russes, and veterans in chimeras. Also you can use mobile cover/tar pit/fire magnet made of 30+ Conscripts accompanied by a priest or two and a psyker and their platoon riding around in Chimeras. Super Heavy mobile bastion also known as Stormlord can help too. Orders also can help. There're no any universal tactics. Guard is one of a few armies that can do anything and it will work because GW have not invented for us some new shiny pricy unit of victory yet.

[WarriorFish]

I wrote a Tactica Generalis a bit back, it still applies :) In very general terms it's about numbers for me. Keep units cheap while still retaining a role and effectiveness, that way you can get a good number of units on the table and also throw lots of dice at your opponent. For a Platoon I keep them very cheap, with just a special weapon (flamer or grenade launcher) and perhaps a vox network. Add in another couple of squads and you have a lot of troops that can help hold the line and protect your more valuable units (mostly your tanks!).

[Tallarn Commander]

Brother Talarian, 

 

You ask some excellent questions.

 

In general, being stationary worked well up to 5th Edition.  Then GW and independent tournament organizers added a lot more missions that required you to move in order to win.  In future games I encourage you to try a more mobile set of tactics.  The IG will always have a hard time getting into the opponent's back-field (my stormtroopers get there but are then killed) but we have plenty of units that can contest the midfield. My favorite mobile units are conscript platoons, mechvets, Hellhounds, outflanking scout sentinels, and Salamander Scouts. 

 

You can still take static gunline units. 

Heck, even my Night Lords keep a couple of Havoc squads in their backfield while the rest of the army races forward.  But you should probably use that gunline in tandem with mobile units to support your manuever elements.  For example, as you note, MT are an excellent manuever element (and they really shine in maelstrom missions where they can deepstrike onto objectives).

 

With regard to tactics and lists, I can't answer for other people, but my tactics/lists boil down to 1 of 3 types of forces I like to use. All of these forces use both static and mobike units in tandem.  Here is an overview of each.

 

1.)  "Arnhem Red Devils" force:  This is all infantry list in which I take only infantry (and sometimed a flier) . At 1850 points I put about 120 to 150 foot troopers in infantry platoons (35 trooper lascannon platoon and 35 trooper autocannon platoon), conscript platoons (usually 2 platoons of 30), and then I pepper in some other units  (2xCCS, ratlings, a SWS, etc).  I then toss in between 25 and 40 or so stormtroopers in 3 to 6 squads (taken from the MT book for obsec and twin linking orders).

 

Tactics:  My "glider" troopers start on the board.  My firebase infantry platoons sit in my deployment zone while manuever elements (conscript platoons and sometimes a meltagun platoon rush up to midfield).

Starting on turn 2 my "airborne" stormtroopers and begin dropping all around the field and in the opponents back-field.  Sadly, this list loses a lot at tournaments but it holds its own in casual games.  It is inspired by the British at Arnhem during WWII's Operation Market Garden.  It's a fun list.

 

2.)  My Tallarn Desert Recon Force:  This list features infantry and fast attack choices.  I never use tanks other than Scout Salamanders since this force is supposed to be a light recon detachment. At 1850 points I bring along 2 conscript blobs, 2 infantry platoons, 2 vet squads, and 2 CCS units.  I take 2 CADs so I can fill up the list with 6 recon-themed fast attack choices: 0-2 Salamander Scouts, 9 to 15 scout sentinels taken in 3 to 5 squadrons, 0 to 1 rough rider squadrons, and 0-1 valks/vendettas/lightnings. Like the Arnhem list, this is a fun list that loses a lot at tourneys (although ot does decently in casual games). 

 

Tactics:  most of my fast attacks outflank, grab objectives near the board edges, and begin harassing the enemy.  My conscripts push up into the midfield to tarpit and my vets and infantry platoons sit back and shoot. This list is inspired by the British 8th Armies' Long Range Desert Groups.

 

3.)  Combined arms: a hybrid force of infantry and armor.  Most IG armies I see at gaming stores and tournaments are hybrid.  These lists vary wildly but 80 to 130 or so infantry is not uncommon while the vehicle count can range from 5 to 15 or so.

 

Tactics:  As with the other 2 types of forces, infantry platoons and heavy armor (bassies, wyverns, Russes, etc) units sit back and provide a base of fire while the conscripts push forward to contest midfield.  Meanwhile, my 2-3 mechvets and supporting units  (which vary but might include, say, a Hellhound and some Salamander Scouts) push up a flank to put pressure on the enemy and nab objectives.  This list does way better at tournaments than the other lists (which in today's meta means I sometimes win my last game) and it wins casual games about half the time. It also is a blast to use.

 

Good luck and I hope this helps!

[Isolia]

I am glad you started this topic because I think IG can't have enough tactica out there, since there are so many play styles.

 

I haven't played my guard for a while but I learnt some basics last year about what I always want in my list :

 

- indeed cheap units for troops, it can get very expensive otherwise and they are not very resistant.

 

- I always have vox casters around to help with orders.

 

- i always have a master of ordinance, a 25 pt basilisk is cheap :)

 

- I love creed for his 3-4 orders, but yarrick will be my next trial for blob infantry . Pask would be my choice in a tank army as for many other people in a punisher for statistical reasons

 

- I also try to keep ordinance tanks cheap, because they will only use the main gun effectively (if that)

 

For tactics, I found that veterans in chimera were nice for mobile objective grabbing or specialty tasks such as stopping a specific unit, but I more and more think our strength resides in numbers , blobs and board coverage.

 

 

I suggest this blog which has good tactical advice and is nicely written, just beware of some.older posts pre-2014 as they are for the previous codex

 

http://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.fr/p/tactica.html?m=1

[duz_]

Unfortunately yes, guard do lend themselves to a more static line.

(Of course filthy Tau do this better than us these days and with their assault moves are doubly more mobile)

You can run them more mobile but they generally aren't as durable or fast as other factions which is a big issue this edition. Not to say it can't be done as others above have offered.

 

I've had reasonable success spamming tarouxes. It depends what level your playing and what missions. Out the of the book you will need a lot of mobility to cover 6 objectives. ITC missions are a bit more forgiving because there are less objectives to grab (but more deathstars to deal with).

 

In friendly games a few DT taroux with a hellhound and couple of chimeras should have you covered.

Take the taroux as part of your standard infantry squads and run them empty if you want to blob up. Load chimeras with vets.

 

Unfortunately these days its difficult to run a static infantry line because of all the AP5+ ignores cover that is around. Which is a shame I loved walking my blobs up the board.

[HackedDuck]

You could always ally azreal from the DA to give your blob a 4+ invuln.

(Although this is quite a dirty method and not fluffy in the slightest)

 

Or cast forewarning on them also giving them a 4++

(Less likely to get it but feels better and won't make your opponent feel cheated)

 

Then there's also the biomancy power that gives them a 4+ fnp

(Very unlikely to get as only wydvanes can roll on bio and they can easily be insta gibbed by anything str6

[Brother Talarian]

There's a lot of great advice here! Thank you comrades, it also gives me hope for different play styles. 

 

I think I also need to change my "gaming" mindset. When I play I tend to do everything that I can do avoid my men dying. Need to smack some sense into me and say that there are billions upon billions of men to take up arms when the rest fall ;). 

 

So I suppose it's my own fault that I don't play as aggressively as I should.

 

I like the idea of having a conscript blob surging forward with a commissar and a priest to cause some havoc and tie up some units and "control" the mid-field.

 

Two flanking mechvets is also a sound idea. Would they remain in the chimera until blown up? Or do you guys generally unload and move the chimera elsewhere. I was thinking of giving my vets the sentries doctrine to provide +1 cover, unload them on an objective/cover and have them sit and wait while the chimera moves on to bigger and better things. 

 

I was also contemplating adding a CAD of MT for more Obsec MT. Or the ground formation/hellrain. I think that tauroxes with a 12 inch move could be quite awesome. 

 

I also think that Orders should be used as much as it could. I haven't taken advantage of these as much as I should, I think. Having a platoon in the back-line with auto-cannons and a PCS barking orders at them could also be neat. 

 

Some goes to the MT CCS which can issue some pretty nasty orders as well....

 

Hmm.... Gave me a lot to think about.

The more games I play the more I'll learn. 

 

But I like mobility, and MT seem to be able to provide a lot of that. So an AM/MT alliance might be in order. 

 

Thanks again comrades,

[WarriorFish]

There's nothing wrong with trying to keep your squads alive - that's also good as naturally the more units you have the easier it is to win. Your job as a commander is to make sure that when there are sacrifices they are not in vain ;)

 

As you'd expect Scions go well with Guard, Deep Strike is a form of mobility after all! Mechanised squads usually have a build intended to dismount or not, but you can make the decision to get out or not depending on what you need. While you'd usually want to stay safe inside sometimes you want to split the unit or pour in some extra fire. Orders are a good "bonus" to infantry, so you should always use them when you can even without a vox network :)

[Shamansky]

 

I like the idea of having a conscript blob surging forward with a commissar and a priest to cause some havoc and tie up some units and "control" the mid-field.

 

You should take priest(s) or commissar. Not both. As one gives Fearles and another gives Stubborn respectively. Kind of overkill. And i must admit that Fearles priest is better choice for conscripts.

[Tallarn Commander]

Good point.

 

But sometimes I take one of each on a large conscript blob (40 to 50 troopers). As you note, this does negate the commissar's morale buff. However. The black-coated goon's lead buff raises the odds of a successful order (and the priest still gives the unit zealot of course). Basically, I'm spending 5 meltabombs worth of points to pass orders check on a 9 rather than a 7.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Here is how I tend to do things:

 

Platoons don't get dedicated transports. Plain and simple. I want my platoon to provide a base of fire as they advance. I normally play either Elysians or Krieg, 

 

Given my preference is towards krieg, I get to use grenadiers. Grenadiers get hotshots and those are great for a close assault mech unit. 

[Brother Talarian]

Just a thought on some potential tactics/rules. Could a PCD or CCS riding in a chimera technically jump out, shoot, then be ordered the run after shooting order to jump back in the transport? Don't have the RB with me so I forget what the rules for embarking are.

[Indefragable]

Just a thought on some potential tactics/rules. Could a PCD or CCS riding in a chimera technically jump out, shoot, then be ordered the run after shooting order to jump back in the transport? Don't have the RB with me so I forget what the rules for embarking are.

 

I don't think so. Embarking is considering a special move, with certain restrictions (like no disembarking if the Transport moved more than 6"). No jump-shoot-jump shenanigans for us.

 

I will reiterate what some others have said: Platoons are foot-slogging objective-holders, while Veterans go in Transports.  For a blob (35-50 bodies), a Priest is Mandatory and a Primaris Psyker would be second. The Primaris is Ld9 so helps with Orders, but also is even more of a Force Multiplier with powers. Divination is the way to go since Prescience is a welcome boon, but you can also luck out with 4++ or Rending. 100+ TL Rending Lasguns? Even Wraithknights tremble. As points allow I then add a 2nd priest, then 2nd primaris, then 3rd of each, etc...

 

Despite how iconic they are, I only ever take Commissars in fluffy/"easy going" games. They really only stand apart in the Psykana Division.

 

Side gripe on how to "fix" Commissar

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The biggest issues with Commissars as the rules are currently written is the fact that they less the blow when bad things happen. Priests and Primarii add positive effects that make a unit better whereas the Commissars help make a unit less worse, if you will. Yes the Ld9 helps, but a Primaris is also Ld9, has a Force Weapon, a 5++, and gives psychic buffs.

 

Couple thoughts on improving Commissars...any of theses ideas, not necessarily all of them:

 

A) any unit with a Commissar attached auto-passes tests for Orders. The unit does not dare disobey a superior on the the eyes of the dreaded Commissars

B) Rally: ATSKNF-lite for Guard. They can fail Morale tests, but auto-recover the next turn.

C) Commissars attached to PCS's have their effects extended to all units in the same platoon.

D) No time for silly games: A Commissar may accept a challenge from an opposing character. However, before this challenge is fought, the Commissar may make a single shooting attack with any pistol he is equipped with prior to any blows being struck, even though shooting attacks are normally not allowed in the assault phase.

 

Wyverns are the best unit in the Codex. If you're not taking one, it's because you're taking a squadron (or two).

 

Hellhounds are a hidden gem. Like all things IG, don't expect miracles (that would be the title of an IG Commander: "Don't Expect Miracles: My time in the Imperial Guard"), but a Fast vehicle with a Torrent S6 flamer will often catch opponents off guard. I have been steadily impressed whenever I use it as it is a bit of black sheep in the Codex, in a good way.

 

More than any other army, IG comes down to the ability of the commander more than anything. The maxim "an army of sheep led by a lion is better than an army of lions led by a sheep" applies in spades. With Guard, it's all about playing smart and overwhelming the enemy at the time and place of your choosing. When you analyze pretty much anything that works for us, it comes down to a quantity of something (bodies, firepower, AV14) that the enemy simply can not keep up with. When the enemy is able to take apart an IG force it all rolls up quickly. However, when you are able to survive the first few turns (either through weathering the storm or causing severe damage in your first few turns), it because exponentially harder for the enemy to keep up. Hence Guard are often perceived as a "win big" Faction: when they win, they win decisively, but when they lose, it's quick, dirty, and painful.

 

More to come as I can.

[WarriorFish]

You can only embark in the movement phase unless you have a special rule saying otherwise (which only appears in a White Scar formation as far as I know).

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

As others have said we get no jump shoot jump shenanigans. You're playing guard, which is to say that your philosophy should be to drown your opponent in bodies (yours or his, it makes no difference). 

 

We don't have a lot of those top tier tricks, because guard is not a top tier army. Your strength lies in being able to put out a lot of bodies for cheap, and to spam tanks. We rely on combined arms tactics to win, so that's going to mean bringing Flyers for survivable firepower, tanks to spam large blasts, and massed infantry to grab and hold objectives. 

 

The infantry platoon is expendable. Veterans not as much.

 

If you really want a better performing Guard Army, check out the Imperial Armour books. IA1.2(Armored Battlegroup), IA3.2(Elysians), IA4.2(Elysian D-99), IA5(Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment), IA6(Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment), and IA12(Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade), all have Imperial Guard in them, and I have noted which version each book contains. 

 

Also, if you want something a bit more powerful, look into the Solar Auxilia, which is the Imperial Guard's Horus Heresy era predecessor (You can actually just use your IG models for this, I do). 

[Reyner]

D) No time for silly games: A Commissar may accept a challenge from an opposing character. However, before this challenge is fought, the Commissar may make a single shooting attack with any pistol he is equipped with prior to any blows being struck, even though shooting attacks are normally not allowed in the assault phase.

Please someone make this a thing. So awesome haha!

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