Legion Command - What builds do you use?

[norngahl]

Servus!

 

Just asking, as some time passed by and meta changed because of new units and builds, what kind of HQ units do you use regulary and why? I'm looking around for some nice builds for 2k lists. 2k is usually not as comfortable as 3k, as you have to make choices rather than having the points to find points for everything. Usually I'm taking a

 

Praetor

+ Paragon Blade

+ Iron Halo

+ Digital Lasers

+ Meltabombs

+ a. Jetbike

   b. Phase Walker Relic

   c. Void Shield Generator Relic

= 170 points plus points for option a, b or c.

 

I think Veterans as core units (via Rite of war) are the best choice out there, mainly because you can easily taylor them to your needs, for example with Dreadclaw and Combi-Plasma as an alpha strike unit. The Praetor is a commonly used build to butcher MEQs, just make sure you keep him away from Powerfists.

 

With Jetbike, I use him to chop through backfield units like heavy support squads or objective holders. He does quite well on his own, jumping from cover to cover until he makes it in close combat. On top of this, you can easily shift him around to charge into combats, where some support is needed. With T5 he is immune to most instant death counters out there, especially Powerfists and Lascannons. With a 4++ he is still pretty fragile against low AP weapons, so use him carefully.

 

The Phase Walker relic works like the jetbike. You can easily hide him in units for look out sir but you can shove him around with ease and hide him more easily as well. Backfield clubber, eat up left over units, supports where support is needed. Nice tactic is if you have cult horde allies, put him in a levy blob, if the blob gets reduced to much, jump over to another one. Levys and Praetor in CC are really no fun, they will tear through any TEQ unit with ease.

 

The Void Shield Generator relic is rather for 9 Veterans, Dreadclaw and Praetor build. Adds some more durability, especially against overwatch or against the mean grin when your opponent shoots the dreadclaw first, then tries to put a plate on your praetor and veterans.. suck this, sucker!

 

 

 

As a SoH player, Abbadon is rather a meh choice, praetor with only 4 attacks and powerfist/powersword combo without eternal warrior and only a deep strike buff. If you want to bring a big justaerin unit, you are better off with a spartan or Horus himself rather than him.

 

Mal.. yeah. If you have a special armybuild plan, like taking veterans AND play blitzkrieg rite of war or veterans and the long march, then he might have it's place. Otherwise he is just a bad praetor or a way too expensive delegatus. (:cussstorm from the Mal-Lovers incoming...)

 

 

 

It hurts, that many great consul choices are made support officers. I really liked the master of signal, as a poorly equipped one on a heavy support squad buffed them quite nicely while making his points back with the bombardement quite regulary.

 

No libby commander.. well.. I understand the background fluff, but he is hella expensive to take as a second HQ.

 

Delegatus is nice, but the no LOW choice is quite nifty. Great at low point games, but even on 2k the now LOW choice makes it a no no choice for me.

 

Herald.. IF you make it into combat.. great. Way to expensive for a support officer on 2k through.

 

Vigilator. Yes, has it's use, poor mans general as an alternative to the delegatus. At 2k, won't take him as my boss through.

 

Siege breaker. He himself is nothing special, even the small bonus for a heavy support squad is nice, but I never saw lascannon heavy support squads beside havocs. But making phosphex available for quad mortars is huuuuuge. Problem is.. field more than 3 Quad Mortars to profit from this and you won't find anyone willing to play with you any longer.

 

Primus Medicae. Support officer to make a death star even more death stary. Rather for 3k lists, otherwise it's really all eggs into one basket.

 

Moritat. Granted, after the double nerf I never fielded him again.

 

Legion Champion. Damn expensive for pretty much nothing.

 

Forgelord. Heard about a nice use of rad grenades. Anyone has some nice combos? Obviously Boarding shield and Power Weapon and rad grenade support. For a CC unit.

 

Chaplain. Yes, as usual. Nothing new to see here.

 

 

 

 

 

A nice "small" commander build I would like to take with my SoH is:

Emperors Children

Centurion (your choice)

AA, Boarding Shield

Phoenix Spear

Shrieker

In offense he is basically a faster Praetor, in defense he reduces the incoming attacks for his unit. Great choice.

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts on builds?

[Gorgoff]

You can't make generic builds because it depends highly on which Legion you field what Kind of Praetor or other HQ is usefull and fitting.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

It depends.

 

There are some Consul types that are inherently more useful than others when used in conjunction with other Legion units on a generic scale without figuring in the pros and cons of specific Legions or RoW.

 

So, yes, there are potential 'generic' setups for certain Consul types.

And then, no, they're not really universally usable, since one has to factor in Legion type and the sort of list that will be played / has to be supported.

 

For me, Consuls (or their special character equivalents) are force multipliers: Chosen to buff / strengthen one (or several) particular aspects of a list / army.

 

It always helps to think carefully, so not to overspend on characters. Adjust your choices according to the Legion you're playing and your personal playstyle.

And then ... forget about that for a minute, head back to fluff-land, think of an awesome hero (or anti-hero) leading your forces into battle and ... then you put everything together.

 

From a technical point of view, sure, there are certain types of consuls that are a bit ... tricky to fit in. But at the 2.000 pts. level even a Consul that is highly situational like the Herald can be put to good use. Again, factoring in all other aspects of your list.

 

Personally, I almost never select a Praetor, choosing a Delegatus or even just a Centurion most of the time. Sometimes a Forgelord. Sometimes a Librarian as a 2nd HQ.

 

EDIT: 

 

@OP:  I would never figure in Relics at all, since they require your opponents permission or the right campaign setup.

[norngahl]

Tried a forge lord with shield and rad grenades and he did awesome in a unit of 20 plain CCW/BP/B marines. Defense grenades and -1T is quite a mean buff if your opponent charges you and expects an easy prey. At least you might eat up a lot of the enemies unit in return.

 

Still, veterans as troops is propably the best choice just due to price, easy transport access AND combi weapons, so a small delegatus if you want to spend points on troops and if you don't want to take a LOW might do okay.. if you really need the points elsewhere than on the praetor..

 

All other choices are quite nicr, but rather for friendly games or may work in different Legions than SoH. They get way to many bonus out of dreadclaw veterans. Rare deepstrike, BS5 rapid fire combi plasma after landing safe due the dreadclaw and coming in reliable due to legion bonus bonusist just way too awesome for my legion to let it go.

 

A SOH Praetor is still so nice.. 6 paragon blade attacks on the charge plus one if you outnumber is quite a decent damage.

[Withershadow]

Decent is all that is. 200 points on a non-force multiplier character is a waste when you go splat to a single powerfist. Those points basically buy you a squad of terminators.

[norngahl]

So.. I'm listening for better ideas :)

[Withershadow]

Cheap way to unlock Rites: Delegatus

Force multipliers that can be compulsory choices: Vigilator, Forge Lord, Siege Breaker, Chaplain

[norngahl]

Would be nice to know how you equipp them and where you put them, as this is what I'm interested in ;)

 

Legion Delegatus is no force multipler but just a budget Praetor. Biggest problem is that he blocks LOWs. He is intented for small games where you aren't allowed to take LOWs due to 25% restrictions anyway. But at 2k.. The Praetor with Pride of the Legion makes Veterans AND Justaerin troops without blocking LOWs. So at 2k and above, no way for me to take the delegatus.

 

Vigilator.. Might be worth it for Raven Guard or Alpha Legion. But all the other Legions.. running him solo? Scout/Outflank for a unit? But beside this.. even with rapid fire sniper shooting and blasts.. no real deal to see here. Just there for the scout ability IMO or if you are a "I sadly HAVE to take an HQ" guy.

 

Forgelord.. Yes, he is the guy I'm interested in the most, mainly because he can take a breacher shield AND rad grenades. The single powerfist attack (servo arm) is nice to take out chars if it hits and passes. He buffes a unit, and IMHO better than a chaplain. Mainly because of the rad grenades. You can double your damage against monsterous creatures like mechanicum bots or insta death T4 enemies with the right units without paying for powerfists. Usefull as well in Elite as in big squads. Still, with some equippment at 140 points, only about 15 points (or 30 with digi lasers) cheaper than the praetor and no rite of war in exchange for unit buff.

 

Siege breaker. Better take an Heavy Support Squad and as many quad mortars as possible. I don't say anything against his phosphex buff, but paying an awefull lot of points for lascannons to make best use of his buff isn't mine, but might fit for others. It's nonsense to take autocannons or missile launchers, as you usually have a goddamn lot of quad mortars anyway if you take him, which do the job way cheaper. So where to put him elsewhere for good use?

 

Chaplain. Same as Forgelord, only a bit different as he buffs the to hit rate. I feel he is best in offensive blobs or small elite units with all powerweapons, just like the forgelord. But I think the forgelord has some better combinations, just think about anything that can get S5 by power axes or chainaxes and has furious charge as well. S6 insta death, jay.

[rendingon1+]

Vigilator also has stealth (put him in a seeker/vetsniprs/heavy support squad in some ruins for 3+ cover) and his sabotage can wreck /cripple anything AV10 rear if you roll good. I managed to wreck 2 contemptors, 1 pred and 1 vindicator so far. Not always works but a nice bonus.

[Withershadow]

If talking specifically about Sons of Horus, Maloghurst gives you everything you need. A Primus Medicae is a good addition to Justaerin, especially with Horus. Forge Lord and Chaplain as you stated. Siege Breaker could go with a volkite squad as well, they would be relentless in Long March and he would protect them in melee and tank for them with his 2+/4++.

[Slips]

Dont forget that a Forge Lord can also take a Cyber-Familiar for +1 invuln (3++ in cataphractii) and also re-roll failed characteristic tests.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the siege breaker in TDA with a shield and thammer or cfist in my IF army if I'm going up against knights... he can take them down for sure.

[Gorgoff]

TDA?

[Withershadow]

Tactical dreadnought armor, so I assume we're talking about an Imperial Fist character. Chainfist would be a better choice than a hammer though.

[norngahl]

Yeah, if you can get a 3++ beside a forgelord that is pretty nice, but that are only of few of the legions :) Makes chars much better.

 

Personally I'd take a master of Signal for HQ if it wasn't a support officer. Bumps Volkite Culverin to BS5, offers augury scanner AND the d3 pie plates make their points back most of the time without putting your warlord in danger.

 

@Withershadow

Mal isn't a good choice for me, as he offers nothing great (except taking a rite AND Veterans as troops). If you basically want to take two rites (Veterans and oribital/tank/long war) for a special armybuild he is okay (or Veterans AND allies) but otherwise the Praetor beats him (not just in CC) but with the pride rite as he moves Justaerin to troops as well.

 

Justaerin are just too good to pass on, Mal with Vets ans Long War Rite only offers regular terminators as troops.

[chaos45]

I think there are two schools of thought with HQ units in 30k, either go super cheap or go semi-death star.

 

In playing with friends, haven't played in a 30k/40k tournament in many years.....it seems the popular choice is to go with a strong HQ, I and in general most of my friends always go with a decently well equipped Praetor or special character in some type of command squad or special squad unit from the legion.  Pretty much every game we have played has been this type of set up. 

 

Personally I think a Preator with a decent support squad, either command squad of special unit type squad ends up being fairly strong.  As you get the ablative wounds/challenge bleed offs from the squad which then lets the strong character go to work with the paragon blade or powerfist/thunder hammer.  Makes him a strong threat to anything really, and if you did the command unit right they all have 2+ armor save at least, additional PF/TH or melta bombs to back up the praetor.....

 

We have all become a big fan of the Command squad- as its cheap point wise for 5 guys in 2+ armor, not bulky/slow moving, standard bearer has 2 wounds....

 

My usual HQ build has been this lately and my standard command squad for all my legions with slight adjustments on characters based on legion-

 

HQ squad-

Standard bearer  w/PF

Chosen warrior- w/PF

3x chosen warriors- w/charnal sabres

Praetor- decked out however you like to kick face

Chaplain

Standard apothecary- usually with Power sword. 

 

If you get a challenge you don't like throw a chosen warrior with a charnel sabre at them, just my thoughts on 30k HQ...as its a massive threat to almost anything and has a fair amount of 2+ wounds they have to chew threw not to mention you can actually stuff them in a rhino or various Land raiders easy enough, as since no terminator armor you can fit the entire squad in about whatever transport vehicle you want- drop pod, dreadclaw and it keeps its efficiency.